Talk:Non sequitur (rhetoric)

Several "examples" are not non sequiturs

A lot of the "examples" from Zippy the pinhead don't seem to be non sequiturs, e.g., "Accept provolone into your life." By definition a non sequitur has a premise followed by a conclusion. What makes it a non sequitur is that the conclusion does not follow from the premise. RickReinckens 07:54, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

        I concure. -dan feb. 1

Should this then be the distinction between random humour and non sequatur? because right now random humour's wiki description seems more like the true definition of non sequitur.

Not at all - in fact they're the same thing. I imagine "Random humour" is a neologism for people who can't cope with big Latin words, and I'm going to propose merging the pages here.

Also, I removed the 'Zippy the Pinhead' quotes, since none of them were obviously non-sequiturs, at least not without some context. FiggyBee 01:39, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This may be a response to an old debate, but there is a difference between Random Humour and Non Sequitur. -69.29.167.5

Non-sequitur seems to be a subset of random humour, one with a (seemingly) logical premise. Random humor may be utterly random from the very beginning.--217.144.192.83 09:38, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Non-sequitur is NOT Absurdism

Look, I think there is a fundamental misconception of what absurdism really is and what troubles me is that misconception is carried out in the category parenthesis of "Non sequitur (absurdism)". That (absurdism) shouldnt be there. If you read Albert Camus, nowhere does he ever give you the idea that he would condone the use of non-sequiturs. I want to suggest changing (absurdism) into something like (surrealist) or (humor) to indicate a proper context with which to approach the term.
-MasonicLamb 18:47, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

These two topics are, in fact, two different topics. Random humor has less of a form, less of a "script" than does non sequitur. Random humor is Saturday Night Live, sadly predictable as random. Non sequitur is difficult to pull off well. Many people are incapable of non sequiturs well.

I'm not so sure all non sequitors are necessarily 'humourous'.

I think by the "absurdism" it means that this page talks about non sequitur in that context. There's another page to discuss it as a logical fallacy for example. So I don't see a problem Whodhellknew 20:28, 12 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Non-sequitur's are not absurdism. They're often highly illogical and often don't make sense at all, but they are explainable and in many instances do get explained. In slapstick comedy a non-sequiter can equally be described as a deus ex machina, which in itself doesn't fall into the category of absurdism. Even in the case of normal comedies, viewed primarily as a single scene characters can also be deus ex machina. For example, in seinfeld Kramer often makes non-sequiturs and in many scenes plays the roll of a deus ex machina purely being in the scene to create a plot twist then only to disappear again. 83.100.235.156 17:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Surrealist" and "humor" aren't always necessarily the case - non sequitur (language) is perhaps the most simple and neutral title for this article. --McGeddon 18:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A pig, in a cage, on Antibiotics!

Could we include some definitive examples? Also, how about an prenounciation for "non sequiturs" as it is a big Latin word, and people probably don't know how to say it correctly.

Dfrg.msc 07:05, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'de like to know how it's pronounced too. I would assume it 's something like a Hillbilly trying to say "Cicadas". Non Sa-kay-tors. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

I think I'm getting it wrong, but would Lewis Black's line of "If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college" be an example? 130.184.236.145 15:33, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Despite my enjoyment of Mr. Black, that's not a non sequitur, as it might make sense (though, please don't delve into how). Perhaps: "What's the weather like today?" "Balogna Sandwich" is a better example? In other words, the second part of the phrase is "out of right field," so to speak. JPG-GR 02:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In terms of definitive examples, I like the gentle use of the Ralph Wiggum link at the bottom of the page.. I stared at it for a few moments before I 'got' why it was there. I hope we don't get any wikipedants removing it...

I put the Ralph Wiggum link there because, as his article says, he is well known for his non sequiturs. I couldn't think of a better way to include him in this article! — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:34, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedant here. An encyclopaedia where you have to "stare at something for a few moments before you get why it is there" isn't a good thing. If you think Ralph's a particularly good example of non sequitur usage, add him prominently to the article and explain his context. --McGeddon 11:16, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation

Can someone add a pronunciation guide to the article? I don't know how to pronounce "sequitur". ··gracefool |☺ 03:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say it like: (nahn seh kwa tour) or (nahn seh kwa ter) but i don't know how to add it appropriately with accents and correct letters all that jazz.Gabenowicki 00:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The fancy letters are referred to as "IPA". If it hasn't been added by now, I'll see what I can do. Stale Fries ^{taste better} 04:02, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

LOL!

"This picture of a Macqueen's Bustard, particularly next to this article, could be considered a non-sequitur." halarious! i love it!

Proposed rename

"(surrealist)" and "(humor)" have both been suggested, but I think Non sequitur (language) is probably the least loaded title for this page - although non sequiturs are often intended to be humorous, they can also be unfunnily confusing or artistically serious. Any other thoughts? --McGeddon 10:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Non sequitur (absurdism) → Non sequitur (language) — The non sequitur is more a general feature of language, than a specifically absurdist statement. —McGeddon 12:11, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Support as an improvement, although non sequitur (rhetoric) might be better still. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:55, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Non sequitur (logic), then move that to Non sequitur and move the dab to Non sequitur (disambiguation). They deal with the same things, and only in slightly different contexts; they can be dealt with in the same article at the plain title. Dekimasu よ! 03:18, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support as an improvement, but I'd far prefer non sequitur (rhetoric) as a title as per Septentrionalis' suggestion above. Oppose the suggested merge to with non sequitur (logic), they are different topics with only superficial similarity. Andrewa 10:42, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

This article has been renamed from non sequitur (absurdism) to non sequitur (rhetoric) as the result of a move request. --Stemonitis 16:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to Non sequitur (humor)

This article contains no reference to rhetoric, and concerns numerous or absurd uses. In the absence of any discussion of non-sequitur with regard to rhetoric in this article, I've redirected it to Non sequitur (humor), at least until the article can make specific reference to classical or post-classical rhetoric.ThaddeusFrye 00:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd just like to point out that to rename a page, you should move it, rather than create a new page (see Help:Moving a page). Otherwise I have no comments on the rename. There's a discussion at Talk:Non sequitur (humor). — AnemoneProjectors (会話) 19:46, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]