Talk:Orange Order

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History section[edit]

I've re-wrote almost the entire "Formation and early history" section as:

  1. Overly biased against the Orange Order without giving a non-biased view of the situation
  2. Downplayed the Catholic role in the trouble and sectarianism
  3. Focused too much on events and groups not directly relevant to the point of the section
  4. Contained very little actual history on what led to the Battle of the Diamond and the Orange Order's role in the United Irishmen;s rebellion
  5. The following quote "It is no secret that a persecution is now raging in this country… the only crime is… profession of the Roman Catholic faith. Lawless banditti have constituted themselves judges..." seemed to be purposely truncated to exclude "and the sentence they have denounced... is nothing less than a confiscation of all property, and an immediate banishment." to imply that the persecution was simply the killing Catholics when in fact it was confiscation.

Whilst it still doesn't make pleasant reading for an Orangeman who'd like to present a clean version of the orders foundation, it is now written in a more balanced and neutral tone. Mabuska (talk) 22:49, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Orange Order[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Orange Order's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article. The Orange Orphan Society is a registered charity - Registered Charity Number: 1068498 and contact details are found at http://www.charitychoice.co.uk/the-loyal-orange-orphan-society-of-england-88447 If this does not answer your question please clarify.

Reference named "Bardon":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT 06:43, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

other Orange institutions (Scotland)[edit]

In this article, Orange institutions in other countries are just a branch of the Orange Order in Northern Ireland. I would mention the Orange Lodge, the Glaswegian Orange Foundation (mentioned in thatcher's memoirs btw.) etc. I do not think this is correct. --Wiskeps (talk) 07:23, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Flag description[edit]

I'm not sure why the description of the flag as "consisting of an orange background with a St George's Cross and the purple star of the Williamite forces" has been removed. Is there some good reason for removing the description of the flag? Dmcq (talk) 11:41, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Comparisons with Ku Klux Klan[edit]

Further to previous comment does this section not run counter to Wikipedia guidelines i.e. "sections within an article dedicated to negative criticisms are normally also discouraged". These 'comparisons' are only made by opponents of the Orange Order. I think this section should be removed and the comparison is cover for criticism. Removal is supported by the previous talk discussion also.--Flexdream (talk) 21:40, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

I propose to remove this section. It is not a comparison, but is a platform for critics of the Orange Order to associate it with an unpopular organisation with which it has no links or affinity. --Flexdream (talk) 04:13, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
Go ahead. I support removing it. The section has been controversial for some time. It has been moved, deleted, re-added, moved again, renamed, removed again, and re-added again. One can compare anything to anything, even though they aren't related, but those who want it kept in the article are trying to somehow say the Klan and the Orange Order are tied. Guilt by association. It's not true of course, but one can't prove a negative, can one? I don't care one way or the other anymore. I don't belong to the Order, and I know no one who does. All my Irish relatives are Irish Catholic. But Wikipedia isn't about truth and accuracy anymore. It's about cranks pushing political agendas. I wish you good luck and Godspeed in deleting this section. Eastcote (talk) 02:53, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for that. I also "don't belong to the Order, and I know no one who does". Your conclusion on what wikipedia has become is sad. Regards.--Flexdream (talk) 08:02, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Rather amazing. It's been a few days, and this hasn't been reverted. Maybe all the disruptive. agenda-pushing editors have finally been blocked. We'll see. Eastcote (talk) 06:53, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Confusing edit summary[edit]

Hi Mabuska, can you explain your edit summary? Gob Lofa (talk) 08:11, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

It is only confusing to those with little knowledge of the area that they are editing in, i.e. you. Anyways it's quite hypocritical to make remarks about peoples edit summaries when yours are largely misleading and disingenuous.
On confusing, that is what you edit does: "Although these were soon qualified for Nonconformist Protestants, the 1689 Bill of Rights granted civil and religious liberties to all Protestant subjects, and the Glorious Revolution strengthened Parliament in relation to the Monarchy." - what exactly do you mean? That nonconforming Protestants would also be granted the same civil and religious liberties as those Protestants that conformed to the established church and tests? If so then you are quite mistaken and my edit summary makes it clear why your edit is wrong and why you know very little on a subject you should really avoid editing on. Mabuska (talk) 12:07, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
No, it was just a badly worded summary, but don't worry. What I mean is, the civil liberties that were granted to all Protestants by the Bill of Rights were qualified not long after with regard to Nonconformists. Can I take it you agree with this? I see you took a different meaning, but I'm not sure how you did that. Gob Lofa (talk) 13:03, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
No it is not if you had any brains on the subject matter. As the second sentence of my edit summary stated: "I assume the penal laws which started to be enacted only a few years later didn't affect them at all.... sheesh". Learn some history instead of working with your personal opinion/original research. Though to spell it out for you: the civil liberties that were granted to all Protestants ended up only being for people who conformed to the Established Church. The Anglican dominated Irish and English parliaments made sure that the penal laws they introduced in the years after the Bill of Rights, targeted all non-conformers not just Catholics. So in that case how can you state "were qualified not long after with regard to Nonconformists", especially when their rights were denied? Why do you think so many Presbyterians emigrated to America in the 1700s? Why do you think the United Irishmen came about? Knowledge is power.Mabuska (talk) 13:14, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
I really don't understand how you're taking that meaning from my words. Civil liberties were guaranteed to all Protestants by the BOR. Afterwards, those civil liberties were qualified with respect to Nonconforming Protestants. What part of that do you disagree with? Gob Lofa (talk) 13:28, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
"Although these were soon qualified" - how soon? In your wording it sounds like a matter of months or years. It took over a century, which was hardly "soon". Numpty. Mabuska (talk) 16:30, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
Over a century? Don't be ridiculous. Do you understand what I mean by 'qualify'? Gob Lofa (talk) 16:40, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
Well, do you? Gob Lofa (talk) 21:40, 25 August 2015 (UTC)