Talk:Pantsir-S1

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brazil already bought[edit]

signed and everything. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1mUIPPH740 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.138.215.176 (talk) 14:04, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

NATO reporting name[edit]

Does anyboby have the reference for the Pantsir-S1 having the NATO reporting name SA-22 Greyhound? I think it is a US DoD reporting name (not NATO). Germ 04:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


Iran uses Pantsir-s1 too[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Iranian_Army#Air_defence_Missile_Systems

http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/jdw070522_1_n.shtml

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=177315

Quality of English[edit]

Unfortunately very poor. Opening sentence mangled. Sometimes forgets the definite article ('the'). Verbs are often wrong ('further test will taken place')

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr FFB (talkcontribs) 20:09, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Speed and training comments do not make sense[edit]

F15 2.5+ mach is for high altitude and clean

1000m/s missle speed = 3600km/hr F15 = 917 km/h cruising speed at optimum altitude

Training is not relevant if as reported Russian are still manning the systems. --Infojam 14:49, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Not to sure what you mean...
-Germ (talk) 00:51, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal[edit]

Since this is a upgrade of the 9K22 Tunguska, should we merge them as it has been done with S-300, Tor missile system and Buk missile system? --ŦħęGɛя㎥ 00:37, 21 August 2008 (UTC) would you merge the F-22 article with the F-15. it's technically an upgrade. don't be silly. they are very different systems. —Preceding unsigned comment added by - - - (talkcontribs) 02:11, 7 May 2011 (UTC) Of course NOT. this is not like the S-300 or S-400 which is even more complicated. this Pantsir-S1 is a completely new SAM system. It's a "system" because it's made in modules, this is, you can have several chassis or mounts for the SYSTEM. It's a completely new system from the Tunguska. Sure, an upgrade, but an upgrade doesn't mean it's equal or similar. It's an upgrade to a different and new system with new and updated capabilities. It's like saying the F-22 article should be merged with the F-15 because it's an upgrade. Yeah it's an upgrade but it's a different system. The S-300 system is way much more complex because S-300 it's not even the name of a single system, it has many variants and because a S-300 system has several components, radar module, missiles module, service module etc which from variant to variant. Even the S-400 is based and shares several components and modules from some S-300 systems. Also those variants have very different objectives and capabilities. On the other hand the Pantsir-S1 is just a module and it's always the same system. It's not similar to the Tunguska. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.214.220.21 (talk) 10:50, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

In the news right now.[edit]

The syrian air defence has just shot down a turkish Phantom fighter jet, which flew recce mission 1km from their shore (border violation). The syrians have uploaded to Youtube the video of the incident, which is of poor mobile phone quality, but the sound of short-burst autocannon fire is clearly audible here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdIEmyvyJYo

This nullifies press reports that claim syria used the recently delivered BUK missiles to down the Phantom jet from a greater distance. The turkish pilots ran into a disguised Pantsir 6x6 gun battery. Another insight is that apparently the russian advisors managed to break the zionist jamming tech, which made syrian air defence neutered during that previous reactor bombing incident. Turkish warplanes carry zionist-made electronic warfare pods. Maybe the jews purposefully disabled those turkish jamming systems, after Ankara broke up with Tel-Aviv over the palestinian apartheid situation? 87.97.53.161 (talk) 15:23, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

According to Turkish FM who told at a TV interview aired on 24 June 2012, the Turkish a/c that involved in the incident was an unarmed RF-4E. The a/c had shot down on international waters and fell to the Syrian waters. He denied border violation and insisted on Syrian Air Defence shot at TAF a/c without any alert as this is the usual case in border violances. http://www.todayszaman.com/news-284462-turkey-says-jet-shot-down-in-international-airspace.htmlCite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). Rugyu (talk) 14:37, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Moreover if Turkish claims are the truth itself, the AD system involved in the event can not be Pantsir, because of 2 reasons, namely; 1-a/c shot at 13 miles west of Syrian coast that means more than the 20 km range of the Pantsir's missile. 2-On the youtube video given as a link above, although gun fire is audible (highly possible it's not the real event, maybe a kind of self-acquittance film) but the range of the cannons is just 4 km. Finally adding to the picture that, no RWR alert is reported (so there was no radar lock) it is possible to assume it was a modernised SA-3 that had laser/IR homing capability. Rugyu (talk) 12:41, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

According to Military Prosecutor Office's findings, after metalurgical analyses it's clear that the weapon used in the downing of Turkish RF-4 is a "missile" not an AA gun. Holes at vertical tail are not bullet holes and traces of potassiumchlorate is found at tail which is used as an oxidiser in missiles and also used in explosives. The Missile exploded at left aft of the aircraft and made it uncontrollable (this is my comment:also made pilots unconscious for this reason they did not eject theirselves). Also in memory of RWR there is record of a missile warning. Moreover it is mentioned that missile is likely a SA-3 but after chemical analyses the picture would be brighter (i.e.which warhead so which missile is used at the event). This details are mentioned in a Turkish newspaper, but unfortunately not mentioned at this english version: http://www.todayszaman.com/news-292796-military-report-says-turkish-jet-downed-in-syrian-missile-attack.html Rugyu (talk) 06:43, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

There are 3 quadruple SA-3 launchers at this coordinates 35.33.48N, 35.44.14E. And these are coordinates of the RF-4E at which last stable flight data is taken (altitude 7400 feet, speed 300 knots, heading 211) 35.48.22N, 35.33.21E. Using Googleearth you may measure the distance between these coordinates. It is very near but less than 35 km. For coordinate data refer to http://yenisafak.com.tr/gundem-haber/fuzeyle-dusuruldu-20.09.2012-410332Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). Rugyu (talk) 12:37, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

2007 Israel attack[edit]

"An undisclosed number of Syrian Armed Forces Pantsir-S1 weapon systems were deployed to guard the airspace over the Iranian-North Korean-built nuclear reactor in the northern Syrian town of Al-Kibar on 6 September 2007[8]; however, they were unable to fend off the Israeli airstrike due to electronic attack and jamming from attacking aircrafts"

At that time they were not even there ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EErUMjjA7c&feature=channel Interview with the head of the KB. Pls correct the wrong information. Minute 1.30 - — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.75.250.185 (talk) 12:42, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

The quote references to an article in the DEBKAFile (debka.com). It writes about newly deployed Pantsyr-1 which still according to the very same article failed to defend Syria's nuclear reactors five years ago. It contradicts even with itself. It's only source seems to be itself and still it's able to tell that Pantsyr was used to down Turkish fighter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miranor (talkcontribs) 06:36, 26 June 2012 (UTC)


OK which source is more reliable, the one from DEBKA files probably the MOST unreliable source ever. OR THE HEAD OF THE Construction Bureu WHO actually build and delivered them!!!! PLEASE watch the video and edit the article. THANK YOU!--79.254.111.50 (talk) 10:16, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page[edit]

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This system was originally developed in 1991 ![edit]

+ and a requirement that was put forward was to work in the movement = without any restrictions that has already been done when the first batch went for export all built systems can run without stopping but I can not find good sources of text (only words on television, and not in English) but the words he says in the movie filmed developer about the developer (many years ago)89.105.158.243 (talk) 16:27, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

2015 Spotting of the Pantsir-S1 in Ukraine[edit]

Hi,

Many people here are probably wondering about the presence of the Pantsir-S1 in Ukraine. Although there are those who claim that multiple sources support such a presence, a closer look at the sources themselves will show that the information is too controversial to be supported by such few sources.

The following sources are used to "support" the "fact" that the Pantsir-S1 is in Ukraine:

  • Armament Research Services (ARES)
  • Jane's International
  • Foreign and Commonwealth Office
  • Business Insider
  • Bellingcat Vehicles

It appears as if there are at least five sources that support the claim. Since the claim is very controversial, multiple sources must be given for such a claim to stay according to WP:FRINGE. But let's have a closer look.

ARES: Although this is a reliable source, the Armament Research Services themselves explicitly made it clear that they themselves cannot verify this inquiry and only mentions it as a possiblity. There is also a usage of sources like social media and YouTube which are not reliable despite ARES normally being a reliable source.

Jane's International: This is a very reliable source and should never be considered otherwise. In fact, this reliable source explicitly said that "this cannot be independently verified by IHS Jane's".

Foreign and Commonwealth office: This is a reliable source. However, one reliable source isn't enough to keep such an extremely controversial claim.

Business Insider: This source cites the Foreign and Commonwealth office and is therefore not considered an additional source.

Bellingcat Vehicles: It's not clear if this is a reliable source at all. Even if it is, then you have a total of two sources that support the claim of the Pantsir-S1 in Ukraine. This is not the "multiple" needed for a controversial claim.

Khazar (talk) 01:18, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

What you are writing is not entirely true. ARES has recently updated its report about Pantsir-S1 seen in video in Luhansk. It stated:
A video brought to our attention shows a Pantsir-S1 being driven down a highway in Lugansk, Ukraine, a little over a week ago. The location was verified through comparison of landmarks using Yandex maps.
ARES has also uploaded a copy of the original video to YouTube with caption:
A video showing the Pantsir-S1 air defence system on a major road in Lugansk, Ukraine.
(Anyone can indeed verify the claim himself. The location is 48.546240, 39.331236. Direction of movement is South-Eastern. The street can be easily recognized at Yandex Street View).
So ARES has obviously recognized presence of Pantsir-S1 in Ukraine.
Bellingcat Vehicles is a dedicated independent reliable resource about movements of weapons around Russian-Ukrainian border. It verifies all the geolocations through a review process. And it currently has two geolocated sightings of Pantsir-S1 (one in Luhansk and one in Makiivka).
Foreign and Commonwealth Office is another reliable source, which uses the two sources above. It most probably means that the Office verified the evidence and considers it convincing enough to safely make a "controversial" statement, which would likely harm its relationships with Russia (especially if the claim was false).
So we have three reliable independent sources. How many more do you need? --Amakuha (talk) 02:36, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Not true. YouTube is deemed as an unreliable source and its usage by ARES disqualifies it as a reliable source in this context. Also keep in mind that mentioning a YouTube video does not mean that it recognizes it as true. Jane's International mentioned the pictures as well but did not recognize them as fact and remained skeptical. All in all, you only have two sources to back up the bogus claims. Khazar (talk) 23:19, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Khazar, there are primary sources (YouTube) and there are secondary sources (ARES, Bellingcat, The Foreign and Commonwealth Office). We use only secondary here. If secondary independent reliable sources, like these three, make a conclusion that Pantsir-S1 was seen in Ukraine in at least two locations, I don't see any reason to not include it in the article.
However, if you know a Wikipedia rule, that says that secondary reliable sources become disqualified as reliable if they use YouTube for making a conclusion, please, point me to such a rule. Otherwise, please, avoid deletion of the information.
Also, I don't see any reason to consider this a fringe theory, as it's widely believed that Russia supplies weapons to the separatists, including Russia's latest equipment such as BPM-97 (at least 10 seen in Ukraine), GAZ Vodnik, BTR-82AM, T-72B3, T-72BA and others, which are listed here. --Amakuha (talk) 11:30, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
YouTube is generally not accepted as a reliable source. If you knew this simlpe fact, you would know that what you are doing is directly against the policies of Wikipedia. Also, YouTube videos are only primary sources if the uploader is some original official organization.

I'm not surprised that you don't view this as a fringe theory. Unlike the T-72B3s and BAs, there are only two "high quality" sources which is not enough to keep it in the article. For the latter, there was an enormous amount of coverage with reputed news reports. For this one, you have nothing more than a vehicle tracking website and the UK intelligence. If a source as reliable and as informal as Jane's International (which would have been the reputable out of all of these) cannot confirm these allegations, then shouldn't that tell you that this is an exceptional claim? Better yet, where are the official Ukrainian government accounts of all of this? Khazar (talk) 08:07, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

    • WTF??

http://vz.ru/news/2014/11/7/714344.html UN no facts (facts) invasion Russia in Ukraine

http://vz.ru/news/2014/11/7/714354.html US Department of State = no evidence troops of Russia in Ukraine

http://www.vz.ru/news/2015/2/13/729498.html + http://russian.rt.com/article/74114 + http://m.forbes.ru/article.php?id=266459 OSCE we have not seen Russian troops in Ukraine — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.104.198.64 (talk) 17:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

in Little bonus http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13931204001534 + http://agitpro.su/pvo-iraka-sbila-dva-britanskix-samoleta-s-oruzhiem-dlya-igil/ oh yeah, the British supply weapons igil ISIS ISIL - Psak ready to deny? 79.104.198.64 (talk) 18:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

you can not show even footprint in the snow for as by you mentioned 12,000 soldiers of the Russian Federation in Ukraine http://novorussiya.ru/novosti-rossii/206-minoborony-rf-12-tysyach-chelovek-snezhkom-ne-prisyplesh.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.218.182.111 (talk) 15:30, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

However, the original of the report recognizes that there is no convincing evidence.[edit]

However, the original of the report recognizes that there is no convincing evidence. And then it was established that this photo was made on the territory of Russia.[1] The original document does not indicate the reliability of its assumptions. Some media have published these photos with other statements[2]. OSCE and the General Staff of Ukraine admitted that it has no evidence of the presence of Russian troops in Ukraine.[3][4] [5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.104.200.80 (talk) 08:54, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

"Carapace C1" Codename[edit]

Has any one heard of the Pantsir-1 being referred to as the "Carapace C/C1." For example, here are two articles that make these references:

http://survincity.com/2013/06/division-complex-carapace-c-tipped-night-airstrike/

http://survincity.com/2013/08/carapace-c1-will-cover-the-metropolitan-sky/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jagaer meister (talkcontribs) 17:13, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Those are unreliable sources. In English sources, it is always referred to as the Pantsir-S1. Welcome to Wikipedia and be sure to sign your posts by clicking on the Sign your posts on talk pages: at the bottom of your edit box. Khazar (talk) 21:21, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

designed for para-drop[edit]

https://www.rt.com/news/342072-fowler-airborne-air-defense/ 104.34.250.89 (talk) 16:29, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

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