Talk:Phasaelis (princess)

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On 9 September 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Phasa'el to Phasaelis (princess). The result of the discussion was moved.

Requested move 9 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved as an uncontested request with minimal participation. If there is any objection within a reasonable time frame, please ask me to reopen the discussion; if I am not available, please ask at the technical requests page. (closed by non-admin page mover) Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 04:32, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Phasa'el → Phasaelis (princess) – Article clearly uses "Phasaelis" as the preferred spelling. Current title seems to be a result of attempting to disambiguate from the village, the redirect there at Phasaelis would be much better targeted towards Phasaelis (disambiguation). Orchastrattor (talk) 13:05, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move far too hurried, lacking valid arguments

Hi Orchastrattor. The move was made just eight (8!) days after posting the request, with no replies from anyone - none, zero. This isn't quite OK, even if it might be a legitimate request. If you just did it w/o request, that I would have had more understanding for - be bold, etc. :) Please try to be less rushed with such things.

I don't fully agree. It seems that the preferred grecised version is indeed Phasaelis, but it's not the only one, and the original Nabataean name it's not; on that one researchers didn't seem to have found a consensus, see quoted sources.

Your argument, that the article uses mostly Phasaelis, is quite worthless, unless you have checked that the editors have respected the name and its spelling in the sources they referenced. This I'm not at all sure about, as the refs are messy and the editors have in several cases misrepresented the sources they cited. So you actually haven't made your case at all. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 09:23, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Arminden: I didn't close shit, I just put in a completely standard request and Safari closed it when nobody responded, ping them about if you want to complain. The entire thing was 100% above board on my end, if you had the capacity to contribute to the discussion but chose not to that is entirely on you. Orchastrattor (talk) 15:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, sorry, you didn't. Yours was a shot in the dark w/o much preparation and Safari is probably a bot or acted like one.

The page isn't on my watch list, simple as that. Arminden (talk) 15:41, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Safariscribe is an extremely prolific community member with a number of exceptional user rights and responsibilities, technical requests get approved like this all the time. Orchastrattor (talk) 15:43, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First, calm down. I tried to be nice.

Second, I see that elsrwhere you knew how to "ping relevant editors". Rushed request however u look at it.

Third, human or bot, Safari's wasn't a good move and looks at least like an auto pilot edit. We all make mistakes.

Chill. Arminden (talk) 15:53, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PS: this page still isn't on my watch list. Take it as you like, ping or don't ping. Arminden (talk) 15:54, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Accusing one editor of ignoring consensus and another editor of being a bot isn't being nice, its textbook assuming bad faith. It is entirely your responsibility to keep track of pages you are interested in and to subscribe to discussions you are involved with, the request was visible both on the page itself and on the central requests page for over a week prior to the move. if you disagree, the onus is on you to say so. It was moved under a technical request due to the obvious lack of discussion and the entirely self-explanatory rationale, if you decided on what spelling to use on the page it would also be your responsibility to ensure that that spelling conforms to the sources. Orchastrattor (talk) 16:57, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I accede that the references details could have been better but I dont recognize the fact that I have in any way "misrepresented" them. I have worked in good faith searching out literature and other academic material to back up my claims. Sfar13 (talk) 02:06, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More care pls with accuracy, sources, refs

Hi Sfar13. I greatly appreciate your energy and amount of valuable sources and material you have added, but please be more accurate in matching info with refs, and the ref details themselves (correct pages, use of access date etc.). It's very cumbersome to fix the inaccuracies and catch the unsourced, possibly wrong info in an already written text. Thank you for your effort and for your understanding! Cheers, Arminden (talk) 09:30, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Daughter of Queen Huldu?

Sfar13, hi. There is no mention of Ph. being the daughter of Queen Huldu in the source you have indicated in this edit. Neither of the first three sources, Norris, Alpass and Sánchez, seem to make that claim, or at least I couldn't find it. I'm removing it until it's clarified. Arminden (talk) 09:36, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here it is:

"... and his first wife and co-ruler, Huldu,^{[citation needed]} who may have been a daughter of Aretas' predecessor, Obodas III.^{[citation needed]}"

Btw, Sanchez presents it as a fact, not as a supposition, that Huldu was Obodas' daughter, but makes no connection between her and Ph. Arminden (talk) 10:15, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first reference is for the fact that Huldu was the wife of Aretas IV. But while Sanchez represents it as a fact that Huldu was a daughter of Obodas through reading of other material its better to err on the sideof caution and say that she "may have been"

The 2nd reference from Alpass refers to an inscription that mentions Aretas IV Huldu and their children. I can add anothe reference this is from the inscription mentioning Aretas IV and Huldu. It says "hus" but the inference is that its their children.

"...his children mlkw, ʿbdt, rbʾl, pṣʾl, šʿwdt, and hgrw" (Cantineau 1930/1932) Sfar13 (talk) 02:33, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Use of asterisk - help!

Norris has "the Nabataean *Pṣʾl, to which may correspond the Greek Φασάηλος". The ref template doesn't allow the use of the asterisk, meant here as a phonetic sign (likely making the distinction between f and ph). I had to remove the * in order to escape the pesky red notes indicating the conflict with the template, but that's actually incorrect. Also, using phonetic signs from a system not properly indicated, in this case ANA, is BS, but I have no clue what ANA is and how to go about it. Arminden (talk) 10:10, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]