Talk:Philippine–American War

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Face of the New Peoples Army of the Philippines, Volume Two[edit]

In the course of recent extensive editing of this article, I have come across this book:

Welman, Frans (2012). Face of the New Peoples Army of the Philippines. Volume Two. Bangkok: (self-published). ISBN 978-616222163-7.

Much of the text and images found in pages 116 through 131 of Welman's book are nearly identical to that found in this Wikipedia article. A quick look at the history of this Wikipedia article will reveal that the text and images were present in this article as far back as 01 NOV 2010—years before Welman's book was published. The main reason I am pointing out this awkward situation is so that future editors will not inadvertently use Welman's book as a source for this Wikipedia article. In fact, this example illustrates quite well why self-published sources are not, as a rule, considered to be reliable sources for Wikipedia articles. DiverDave (talk) 22:24, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, this observation is correct. It is clear that the book's "author" has just lifted text almost unchanged from Wikipedia. I was looking at the numerous citation required tags added to the American atrocities section, being worried, given the text that has been tagged, that they might have been placed there just for some I don't like it disruption. But they do seem to be entirely justified. For example, I could find no usable sources for the Gen. Bell's "protect friendly natives from the insurgents, assure them an adequate food supply" quote. All of them are just Wikipedia clones, some easy to spot, some less easy, like the Frans Welman book. If this was a real quote, my feeling is that it should have been possible for me to find an online source. Eventually I did find a source, finding that the quote is not actually by Bell. There appear to be a number of dubious sources used in this article, content dealing with atrocities requires and demands proper sourcing. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:39, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
This is yet another Wikipedia clone [1] being used in the article as a reference for article content. I have deleted it, and given the content a real source. A good test for these fake sources may be to look in them for the incorrect assertion that Gen Bell said the "protect friendly natives from the insurgents..." quote. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 21:48, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Casualty figures; Bob Couttie[edit]

This edit caught my eye, the edit inserted the word as into an assertion, changing it to read, "However, it is not known where Remondo derived his figure for 1895, as the official Spanish population estimate was less than 6 million." (emphasis mine). The assertion is supported by a cite of Bob Couttie, Genocide – The Numbers Don't Add Up, which was tagged {{dead link}}.

  • First of all, the link is not dead. I've removed the dead link tag.
  • Second, as I read the assertion, the edit would change it to assert that the reason that it is not known where Remondo derived his figure for 1895 was that the official Spanish population estimate was less than 6 million. That does not make sense to me, so I've removed the inserted as and recast the assertion as two separate sentences. I've changed the second sentence from "[T]he official Spanish population estimate was less than 6 million" to "Estimates of combatant deaths range from 25,000 to 36,000; estimates of the number of civilian deaths during the conflict range from 200,000 to 3 million.", which is supported by the cited source.

The cited source is a page onn Bob Couttie's blog at There doesn't seem to be a WP article about Bob Couttie, but he is an author of books about the Philippines, including

Please improve the article as needed and/or discuss suggested improvements here. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:06, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Marine Corps[edit]

This edit caught my eye. I don't know about block evasion, but the edit removed mention of the United States Marine Corps from the list of belligerent organizations in the infobox. The USMC did participate in the war (see e.g., the Littleton Waller article). The United States Marine Corps article says that the USMC is one of the four armed service branches in the U.S. Department of Defense and also says that it has been a component of the U.S. Department of the Navy since 30 June 1834, so there might be issues here about whether the USMC should be listed as a belligerent organization along with the Navy and, if listed, whether it ought to be indented under the mention of the Navy. IMO it ought to be listed, and I think indenting it would likely cause more confusion than it would prevent. I'm just mentioning this to encourage discussion in case other editors have stronger opinions about this than I. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:55, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Not an international conflict under the laws of war?[edit]

I just noticed the lead sentence in the final paragraph of Declaration of war by the United States#Other undeclared wars, which reads:

The American Civil War was not an international conflict under the laws of war, because the Confederate States of America was not a government that had been granted full diplomatic recognition as a sovereign nation by other sovereign states.

That would apply as well to the First Philippine Republic revolutionary government in the case of the conflict which is the topic of this article, and I am wondering if the point ought to be mentioned here. I do note that the two sources cited in support of this assertion in that other article are specific to the Confederacy. If an equivalent assertion is made in this article, it ought to be supported by another source which is either more specific to the laws of war and/or to this point in relation to this particular conflict. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 08:31, 19 October 2017 (UTC)