Talk:Qasem Soleimani/Archive 6

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Personality cult?

I've found several sources saying there is a cult of personality built around Qasem Soleimani: The Guardian; The Atlantic; Haaretz; Wall Street Journal; Telegraph; New York Times; etc.. Any objections to adding this to the article? Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 19:03, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Why not? In section Personal life and public image, doesn't need much more than a sentence or so and just use the best couple of cites. Seem reasonable?Selfstudier (talk) 21:25, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Yes it does. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 18:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

No it does not! The term can be used as a "perjorative" one when it's just thrown by some questionable sources specially when there's no de facto cult/personality cult. A quick search shows how UNDUE this claim is. In what terms did he build a cult and what signs of a cult did they have? For analogy, you can review the sources covering the cult characteristics of MEK where the authors are detailing the Cultish aspects of the group. Can you realize the difference? --Mhhossein ^talk 12:29, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Mhhossein: This is what the sources say:

1)"Qassem Suleimani, around whom a personality cult is developing." The Guardian

2)"Soleimani was a supremely powerful leader of a state apparatus, with his own cult of personality" The Atlantic

3)"The personality cult and public relations that Soleimani cultivated played a role in molding his image and led to talk of him as a potential future president if and when he hung up his uniform." Haaretz

4)"Soleimani became a cult figure among Shiite holy warriors" Wall Street Journal

5)"His popularity grew in Iran, where he was a cult figure and the subject of documentaries and even pop songs." The Telegraph

6) " Soleimani, Iran’s most powerful military leader, was almost universally admired and had near cult figure status." New York Times

Please explain how these sources are "questionable" and why "personality cult" should not be mentioned in the article. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 14:44, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Mhhossein: pinging you again since you have not responded. Please explain how these sources are "questionable" and why "personality cult" should not be mentioned in the article. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 10:31, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

I fear expressing my idea. It can be suppressed by a single click! Anyway, let's see the opinion by some users recently having contribution to the article. @HistoryofIran, Ali Ahwazi, Philip Cross, Anonymous from the 21st century, and SharabSalam:. --Mhhossein ^talk 12:52, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Mhhossein You are the one who removed this from the article. Instead of canvassing other editors, please explain (in your own words) the reason behind your edit. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 12:56, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Err.. what is the reason behind this pinging exactly? I don't think you need the opinions of others to explain your own edit, Mhhossein. And if you can't defend your edit, then I see no reason why it shouldn't be reverted. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:03, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Mhhossein you need to substantiate your objections here, since you reverted the material under discussion. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:16, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi Vanamonde: there have been multiple pings to Mhhossein here to substantiate their revert, but they have not answered. What now? Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 18:39, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

Go ahead with the edit in question; if Mhhossein reverts, he would be expected to substantiate his objections here; if he does not substantiate them, there are likely to be consequences. SharabSalaam has been restricted from editing this topic. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:44, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Stefka Bulgaria, should not be included in this BLP (also includes deceased people) per WP:LABEL (see first word). There should be high-quality sources to support this assertion and it should be notable enough so that it is not just passing mentions.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 15:51, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

And even if it's notable enough, reported in multiple high-quality sources and there are scholar sources using this term, (in this case it is definitely not notable) it should be used in-text attribution, not as Stefka made it. The MEK has been called cult in multiple solid scholar sources. I would remind Stefka Bulgaria that if he is making this edit because of MEK's cult dispute between him and Mhhussain to read WP:Pointy.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 16:02, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

SharabSalam You objected the previous sources saying "there should be high-quality sources to support this assertion and it should be notable enough so that it is not just passing mentions." I disagree with your assessment since the sources I provided earlier do meet WP:RS and the content does go beyond "passing mentions". I've looked and found more sources supporting the text that Mhhossein removed (who then pinged you instead of substantiating his removal); so what would be wrong with adding these sources/information into the article?:

7) "He was widely considered the architect of President Bashar al-Assad's war in Syria, the ongoing conflict in Iraq, the fight against Islamic State, and many battles beyond. The silver-haired general with a close-cropped beard was a cult hero for his fighters and the face of evil for his foes. For years, US officials considered killing a cunning adversary who ordered attacks on their forces and taunted them with social media barbs. BBC News

8) "You have written that Suleimani had cult status within IRGC and among Shia militias in the region.” Can you describe that status in more detail? Suleimani has been working extensively with Shia militias, as well as other groups in the region, for over two decades. He was a personal friend of Ahmad Shah Massoud, the legendary Afghan commander who fought against the Taliban. Suleimani had worked with the Northern Alliance, organizing them against the Taliban. As commander of the Quds Brigade, he was in charge of relations with Hezbollah. He was instrumental in setting up militias in Iraq after 2003 and brokered numerous political settlements that produced governments in Iraq. He was also important in organizing Shia militias that fought alongside the Assad regime in Syria, and he probably was the most significant figure in orchestrating the military campaign that saved the Assad regime during the Syrian uprising. It’s reported that it was only after he met with President Putin in the Kremlin that he convinced Putin to deploy the Russian military in Syria to help save Assad. And also smaller groups in Kuwait, in Bahrain, and elsewhere all came under his command. Throughout this he built personal relationships not only with militia leaders and militia commanders and people like Hassan Nasrallah but also with heads of state, like Assad, with Masoud Barzani, in Iraq, and with all of the Iraqi Prime Ministers. They all knew him personally, they all dealt with him personally, they all spent hours negotiating with him, and he also became the one commander in Iran that everyone in the West got to know after 2003." New Yorker

9) "Even if he does not enjoy cult status Soleimani does, Qaani already has deep relationships across the region and an intimate understanding of Tehran’s interests abroad. Independent

10) "It is highly likely there will be some response because of [Soleimani's] cult status inside and outside Iran. That could be Iran expanding their proxy funding -- that would disperse the threat. A cyber response is also a possibility as they have been aggressively running a campaign of that on a state and non-state level."

11) "The Islamic Republic long ago turned hero worship into an art form, with its devotion to Shiite religious figures and war martyrs. But the growing personality cult that halos Maj. Gen. Soleimani is different: The gray-haired servant of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) is very much alive, and his ascent to stardom coincides with a growing nationalist trend in Iran." CSMonitor

12) "...For all these reasons and more, Soleimani was a cult hero in Iran and across the region." Foreign Affairs

13) "General Soleimani was a cult figure in Iran and the most visible face on Iranian news television." India Today

14) "“Qassem Soleimani had a cult following,” said Behnam Ben Taleblu, a senior analyst at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a Washington-based think tank that has worked closely with the Iran hawks in Trump’s administration. “It stands to reason that in a country of 80 million people there are still some who support the regime and they would be the ones to turn out like this.”" Washington Examiner

15) "In addition to serving as one of the most potent commanders of Iran's foreign military arms, Soleimani also became a symbolic figurehead of the government in Tehran with a cult following, casting himself as a pious hero forged from some of Iran's most notorious battles." US News

16) "Suleimani has personally overseen Iran’s expansion, creating a cult of personality throughout the region. His death will be a serious blow to Iran’s asymmetric strategy,” Jones said." Foreign Policy

17) “Gen. Sulaimani became a household name in #Iran after 2012 Syria war. His image as a cult figure leading regional 'resistance' army was carefully cultivated & promoted to boost Iran's image as regional power & to counter ISIS's PR machine,” Fassihi began in her first of four-tweet response." Fox News

18) "In seeking to erase such a symbol of the regime the US only amplified Suleimani’s influence in a prominent cult of martyrdom in Iran. If anything, strategically the strike likely aids the potential recovery of the Islamic State (Isis) in Iraq, against whom Suleimani had been one of the more effective bulwarks. Certainly, it further marginalises advocates of diplomacy and reform in Iran." Irish Times

19) "Soleimani, he says, was a cult figure, and he cites a poll that was done by a U.S. university" NPR

20) "Unlike Soleimani, however, Qaani lacks the cult of personality that surrounded his predecessor, who was both revered and reviled for having had a hand in so many of the attacks and wars that have shaped events and daily life in the Middle East in recent decades." Seattle Times

Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 09:01, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

SharabSalam: Pinging you again in case you missed my last post. Please substantiate why these sources (and the information they support) can't be summarised in the article. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 05:53, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Multiple Spelling Errors Throughout

Throughout the article in multiple locations, the incorrect (British) spelling of "authorization" is used. There is even one sentence where it is incorrectly spelled and correctly spelled twice in the same sentence.

The American law referenced in the section regarding Soleimani's assassination is misspelled with the British spelling as well, as any American law would be spelled with the American spelling of a 'z' instead of an 's'.

Other spelling and grammatical errors exist within the article. The article requires a proofreading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

Yes, this article is inconsistent in sometimes using -ize and sometimes -ise but it is not immediately clear to me which one it is supposed to be standardized/standardised on. -sche (talk) 18:13, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

In the absence of clarity on which are supposed to be used, but in light of the fact that both the earliest versions of the article and the current ones deal with his relationship with the US more than the UK, and that US spellings seem more common in the article (and the few UK spellings were, weirdly, in references to US moves, as the unsigned editor above noted), I've standardized on US spellings. If there is evidence that another spelling was supposed to be retained, please advise. -sche (talk) 18:21, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

A prototype was made (Draft:Zeinab Soleimani)

User:FloridaArmy made a prototype for the article described below. He did not complete it.

Personisgaming (talk) 16:35, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Hm. It would help if the draft had references. I don't see any books about Zeinab Soleimani; there seems to be decent news coverage of her recent marriage, but for it to be more than a WP:BLP1E, one would need other coverage. I do see some earlier reporting about her, but much is of unclear reliability, or is clearly unreliable (e.g. there is a piece in The Sun). Add references to the draft and it'll be easier to get assessments from other ditors of whether she meets WP:GNG. :) -sche (talk) 18:11, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

I am replying to notify you to do a first recheck and see if the article is publishable. Personisgaming (talk) 01:01, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

The draft is unchanged apart from the addition of an infobox, it still includes no sources at all, and thus is not publishable at this time. -sche (talk) 02:59, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Kirkuk Operation

One of the most important operations which leaded by Soleimani was The Kirkuk Operation by the Iraqi PMU in response to The Kurdistan referendum. The article is locked an I can't add this operation. Please someone add this. Thanks.--5.116.103.61 (talk) 08:38, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

POV problem

Soelmani being a terrorist should be in the lead, the description make him should like any other military leader. He engaged in terrorism.96.81.123.61 (talk) 14:19, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

The lead already says Soleimani was personally sanctioned by the United Nations and the European Union, and was designated as a terrorist by the United States in 2005. But usually calling someone a terrorist is an exceptional enough claim that it requires attribution unless the sources are fairly unanimous in using it as fact; and most of the higher-quality sources, like our article, are careful to say things more sedate attributed things like "designated a terrorist by the United States" rather than "was a big fat terrorist." --Aquillion (talk) 02:38, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Please help with new article about leaked Zarif audiotape

Leaked Mohammad Javad Zarif audiotape Thanks The Kingfisher (talk) 19:33, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2021

Main character in Bodyguard (2016 film) is made to look like Sulaimani. 5.75.30.34 (talk) 06:44, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:07, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2021 (2)

Ismail Haniyeh went to his funeral. https://arab.news/5ufpt https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2020/01/06/Hamas-leader-attends-Soleimani-s-funeral-in-Iran 5.75.30.34 (talk) 07:06, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:08, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 June 2021

In the section detailing his assassination, a part which describes the reason for it says “any Americans”. I believe it should actually say many Americans, as “…responsible for the death of any Americans…” appears to be incorrect. 76.11.165.202 (talk) 16:26, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: The prose states that if he was responsible for the death of any American he would be a valid target. From one of the sources, if Iran's increased aggression resulted in the death of an American. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:42, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

All uses of the word “Assassinate”.

Change Assassinate (X) to Killed (Y)

Assassination implies murder. There is no evidence that the individual was murdered. 24.49.213.90 (talk) 03:15, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. EvergreenFir (talk) 03:31, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2022

I would have logged in to fix this, but it's really late & I'm fagged out, sorry. Anyway, section "Military career"; fifth paragraph, first sentence, beginning of second line 'supress' is miss-spelled. 2 p's, not 1. cheers, gary 99.107.119.238 (talk) 07:22, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done Happy Editing--IAmChaos 16:55, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

real truth

He was a real psycho that murdered innocent children easily and love to say thanks to the US army to make the world gets rid of this bullshit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:1D60:277C:D094:CE5C:E80F:BA09 (talk) 05:38, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

حقیقت این است 164.215.202.87 (talk) 11:05, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

https://www.aparat.com/v/UxZVF/%D8%A8%DB%8C%26zwnj%3B%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%DB%8C%26zwnj%3B_%D8%AF%D8%AE%D8%AA%D8%B1_%D8%B4%D9%87%DB%8C%D8%AF_%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%81%D9%86%D8%AF%D9%87_%D8%AF%D8%B1_%D8%A2%D8%BA%D9%88%D8%B4_%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1_%D8%B3%D9%84%DB%8C%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86%DB%8C 164.215.202.87 (talk) 11:06, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Qawt4aqq as wzya5zt55aa5

Zzzzaa aá4q aqa qtzzzzaa Qaeda aw was zszt545aaáwq 67.240.193.239 (talk) 17:00, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Iranian missile attack on the Al Asad Airbase airbase

I feel that the section Retaliation should include the statements put forth by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as well the following is descriptive but lacks balance. "On 8 January 2020, the Iranian military responded to Soleimani's death by launching ballistic missiles at two U.S. bases in Iraq,[204][205] resulting in no reported casualties but 100 traumatic brain injuries.[206][207][208] Iranian officials[209] and some Western media analysts suggested the strike was deliberately designed to avoid causing any casualties to avoid an American response.[210][211]"

While that is one particular viewpoint I will draw your attention to the following from defense.gov. https://www.defense.gov/Explore/News/Article/Article/2052919/joint-chiefs-chairman-defensive-measures-prevented-casualties-in-iranian-attack/

"There's sirens that go off on these bases. ... There's bunkers and jersey barriers, and there's places to go hide and all that," said Army Gen. Mark A. Milley told reporters at the Pentagon today. Milley and Defense Secretary Dr. Mark T. Esper briefed reporters after spending most of the day on Capitol Hill talking with lawmakers.

"We have various levels of protective gear, and we have various scatter plans that do certain things," the chairman said. "They are all tactics, techniques and procedures — normal defensive procedures that any military unit would do that would come under rocket attack, indirect fire, mortars, large-scale missiles, etc. So in this particular case, Al Asad is a big base — they put 11 large rockets [with] 1,000-, 2,000-pound warheads in them — but we took sufficient defensive measures that there were no casualties to U.S. personnel, coalition personnel, contractors or Iraqis."

"While no lives were lost, Milley said, he believes the Iranians intended to cause deaths."

"The points of impact were close enough to personnel and equipment ... that I believe, based on what I saw and what I know, is that they were intended to cause structural damage, destroy vehicles and equipment and aircraft, and to kill personnel," Milley said. "That's my own personal assessment."

That is coming from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. America's highest military command. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Godrain (talk • contribs) 11:21, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I think this should be a fair and balanced article and not politically biased because that just makes Wikipedia look bad. The sooner the retaliation section of the article is balanced out by quoting a highly experienced senior military officer. Who happens to be American. The better. We are talking about credibility here. Or lack thereof. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Godrain (talk • contribs) 11:30, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Merge suggestion

I suggest that the article https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funeral_of_Qasem_Soleimani be merged into this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qasem_Soleimani). Mas73Naz (talk) 17:40, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Qasem Soleimani in Iran Iraq war.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:07, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Mention of protest against his assassination and UN view on top of page.

Reports of celebration of his assassination are little to be found. Whereas, protests against his assassination were widely documented and verified. Also isn't the top of wiki's page a summary of the entire page?. There is nothing about celebration on wikipedia's content. Izan Mehdi. (talk) 14:48, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, but the fact that you already have a history of pro-IRI editing (eg [1] [2] [3]) makes it hard to believe in you. The fact that one single search already shows some results [4] makes your claim even less believable. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:56, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Sir, well on the Zahedan massacre, yeah I did something silly by using google translate to translate the sources and could not find that forces shot worshippers inside the mosque. But, the other two edits are about presenting both sides views. I'am not fan of this brutal regime but, having lived in Iran, I think there should be more balanced view of the country.

As for Soleimani killing, I ask again, isn't the top of wiki's page a summary of the entire page?. There is nothing about celebration on wikipedia's content. Yet there is about the protests and Un view on it and those are not editied by me. Izan Mehdi. (talk) 15:08, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

A government does not equal the country - the people do. The country is nothing without the people - the same people who are getting killed right now for protesting for basic human rights. If you want to present both sides, please do better. I'm not gonna intervene further here for now, please think of what I have said. Bests. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:12, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Grammar

Can this be cleaned up, please?

Under the Assassination tag:

    “A narrative mentions about the American drones which took-off from Kuwait land, and entered Iraq and did the mentioned operation, on the other hand, the headquarters of the Kuwaiti Armed Forces denied the news after a few hours. The second news says that an American UAV rises from the Al-Adeed base in Qatar and do the mentioned assassination-operation.” 2601:603:4E01:1420:868:E969:EE3B:A053 (talk) 15:49, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 October 2023

"was an Iranian military officer" to "was an Iranian terrorist" 142.189.134.33 (talk) 12:54, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: per WP:DECISION NotAGenious (talk) 18:56, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

It is not WP=Decision. He was a terrorist.96.89.243.85 (talk) 17:32, 4 January 2024 (UTC)