Talk:Ram Prasad Bismil

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Proposed merge from Ramprasad Bismil[edit]

I believe that Ram Prasad Bismil should be retained - Google test favours this slightly (557 to 386); also, I remember my history text books spelling the name as Ram Prasad. The other article has POV issues as well. I will wait for comments till the 25th of March - I will do the merge in case there are no objections by then. --Gurubrahma 06:09, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Support merger. Please take care of the PoV section.Thanks.--Dwaipayanc 08:05, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Removed copyvio[edit]

In this edit [1] I removed the text that was copied from here. — Ravikiran 16:52, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Sarfaroshi ki Tamanna[edit]

I am quite confidant that the poem "Sarfaroshi ki Tamanna" was in fact written by Ram Prasad Bismil and Bismil Azimabadi is his pen name (incorrect, read 3rd para). Can some one verify this and update the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.115.26 (talk) 02:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I had written an article which was published simultaneously in Hindustan (Hindi) on 26 Jan 2004 and in the Jansatta (Hindi) on 12 Sept 2004. Any body can see these articles wherein I have very clearly established this fact that the ghazal Sarfaroshi Ki Tamanna was originally written and sung by Ram Prasad Bismil. More over in other research work of mine this fact has been established. I think it clear to every body now.Krantmlverma (talk) 09:40, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

To your claim that Bismil Azimabadi was the pen name of Ram Prasad Bismil: Why would Ram Prasad Bismil who was from UP choose "Azimabadi" as his takhallus (pen-name) considering that Azimabad is in Bihar? The poets generally chose the place of their birth or ancestry in their takhallus or places where they might have strong connections to. Bismil Azimabadi was a separate poet altogether.Real name was Shah Mohammad Hasan and was born in 1900 in Azimabad. I have his entire lineage with me and can produce it on demand. He was a student of Shaad Azimabadi. He died in 1967. It is still a controversial issue whether it was Ram Prasad Bismil or Bismil Azimabadi who actually penned "Sarfaroshi ki Tamanna". Some documents that I have claim that it was Bismil Azimabadi who wrote it and it was corrected by his ustaad Shaad Azimabadi. Working on that hypothesis at the moment so can't conclude with surety yet. But the claim that both were the same person is preposterous. Waints (talk) 12:32, 20 May 2012 (UTC) Babar Imam

COMMENT Not at all! both of them were different persons. Kindly see the following comment of some Abid Hassan on http://audiopoetry.wordpress.com/2006/06/06/sarfaroshi-ki-tamanna-2/ Mr Abid Hassan wrote on 3 April, 2009:

All the lines are wrong expect the first couplet, the remaining lines are following, this can be authenticated by JNU, as the Ph.D has been done on Bismil Azimabadi by one of the JNU students :

Ai shaheed-e-mulk-o-millat, main tere ouper nisar; Le teri himmat ka charcha, gair ki mahfil main hai.
Rah rave raahe muhabbat, rah na jaana raah main; Lazzate sehra navardi, duriye manzil main hai.
Aaj phir maqtal main qatil, kah raha hai baar baar; Aayen wo shauqe shahadat,jinke-jinke dil main hai.
Marne walon aao ab, gardan kataon shauq se; Ye ghanimat waqt hai, khanjar kafe qatil main hai.
Waqt aane de bata denge, tujhe ai aasmaan. Hum abhi se kya batayen, kya humare dil main hai.
Ab na agle walwale hain, aur na armano ki bhid; Sirf ek mit jaane ki hasrat dile-Bismil main hai.

Further it can be authenticated by Khuda Baksh Oriental Public Liberary Patna, as the compilation of Bismil Azimabadi is available there by the name of Hikayte Hasti.

My arguement is somewhat different. Ram Prasad Bismil was born at Shahjahanpur on 11 June 1897 and was assasinated at Gorakhpur on 19 December 1927. Bismil Azimabadi died a natural death in 1978, it means he remained alive not less than 51 years after the demise of Ram Prasad Bismil; yet he never claimed that this poem was not written by Ram Prasad Bismil and he (Bismil Azimabadi) is the actual writer. Now when both of these persons are no more in the world, we are fighting each other for no gain.Krantmlverma (talk) 06:21, 1 June 2012 (UTC)Dr.'Krant'M.L.Verma (talkEmail)

Files uploaded by me[edit]

Whatever files have been uploaded by me in this article are my own contibution to the wikipedia. I have not violated any copyright. I will request to the entire wikipedian network not to delete these files. Please retain all the image files.Thanks.Krantmlverma (talk) 14:07, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

As I have read in many books about Ram Prasad Bismil that he was called Pandit Ji by Bhaget Singh and his other friends. It is true. I think his relative must be living.just to know I am asking no matter whatsoever was his cast, he was a great Freedom fighter and an inspiration for many others.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.162.59.66 (talk) 09:38, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Actual name of Bismil[edit]

The actual name of Bismil was Ram Prasad, whereas Bismil was his pen-name in Urdu Poetry, as per official record available so for. Somebody has unauthorisedly changed the name as 'Ram Prasad Upadhyay' in place of Ram Prasad Bismil'. Hence, I have undid the change made by him. Kindly search the User name from the server and warn him strongly not to do such a vandalism in future. So far as the cast of Bismil is concerned, no doubt he was a Tomar Rajput, it is a fact. But his grand father (Narayan Lal) and father (Murlidhar)- both were called "Pandit Ji" by the people of Shahjahanpur where they lived. Bismil was a learned man of Arya Samaj and in Arya Samaj, it was and it is, the practice to call "Pandit" to any learned person whosoever he be, whether Tomar or of any cast. I hope, every one would appreciate what I have uttered here. I would further request all the Wikipedians, its Registered Users as well as the Administraters to please acknowledge, whatever I have requested here and act accordingly. Thanks a lot once again on this score.Krantmlverma (talk) 17:51, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Bismil not Prasad[edit]

Ram Prasad Bismil used three pen names viz. 'Ram', 'Agyat' (en. anonymous) and 'Bismil' while writing prose or poetry in Hindi and Urdu, but he became popular through the name of Bismil only. In Indian Freedom Struggle the word 'Revolution' and 'Bismil' became synonymous to each other. He has written in a couplet - "Nakshe-paa hain kyon mitaataa hai hameM Bismil falak, Rahbari kaa kaam deMge jo gujar kar jaayeMge." (en. Do not delete my footprints, as they will guide you the way any day.)
Since the word 'Prasad' as edited by User:Ground Zero on 29 July 2011 at 12.59 creates a confusion amongst the Indians because Prasad has become a famous poet of Hindi literature, hence it has been changed. I hope he would not mind it and take it as a wikipedian spirit. With regardsKrantmlverma (talk) 07:05, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
I know Bismil is the name of a district of Diyarbakır Province of Turkey. The population of which is only 56,887 (as of 2010). It seems to have been named after Bismil as Ram Prasad Bismil was a great admirer of Kamal Pasha - a nation builder of Turkey. He had written an article also in the Prabha - a Hindi magazine published from India in November 1922[2] issue at that time when Khilafat Movement was on the peak in India. He has also spoken of Kamal Pasha in his Autobiography. This is an additional information from my side to the wikipedia users.Krantmlverma (talk) 12:05, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

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Hobyhourse?[edit]

This article is one of several that has the appearance of being a "hobbyhorse" of Krantmlverma. The contributor has a somewhat chequered, but not necessarily bad faith, history, aside from the image copyright issues, which are legion both here, at Commons and (allegedly) at hi-WP. The contributor has their own article - Krant M. L. Verma - but the primary contributor to that is Awadhesh.Pandey and I am becoming increasingly concerned regarding to coincidence of these two contributors across a range of articles.

Can someone who is not Krantmlverma or Awadhesh.Pandey please provide some rationale as to why the Verma sources in this article should be accepted as reliable sources. - Sitush (talk) 23:37, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

My dear Sitush Ji! When I started editing this article in the begining I was really not aware of the wikipedia rules. The people from time to time had improved it by providing help to me. Keeping good faith I did not bother what others are doing, I simply went on editing and uploading the available rare photographs on this subject. They were deleted so many times I uploaded them again. It was not my ill intention at all, every thing was done in good faith by me. So far as the contribution of Awadhesh Pandey is concerned he has created an article on me from the help of my blog and user page content. Suppose if you come to me and ask something about me I will naturally tell you in good faith. After all I am a person of 65 years old do you think will I tell a lie. So far as my contributions are concerned I tried my lable best to whatever I could. But now I think I should stop this job and devote rest of my life in writing articles/books for my publishers only who at least pay something to me. Here in wikipedia what I am getting? Only blames, harassments, personal attacks and nothing else. Although I had been a banker but I dont know typing, its a bitter reality. And one thing more, which I would like to share with you is that, I am a man of clear heart. I believe in VASUDHAIV KUTUMKAM (en: whole universe a family). I do not conceal my identity. What I am, I am. I never indulge myself in the edit-wars. This is not my nature. One thing that I would like to request you to please do it on my behalf. I have given here some external links on the bottomline of this article. Please spare some time and improve this article for those who are really in need of good aricles. If something has been uttered here wrong by me I would request you to forgive me for god's sake. With good wishes, I remain, Your's semper fidelis 13:09, 24 May 2012 (UTC)Dr.'Krant'M.L.Verma (talkEmail)

Previously this article was more informative and useful. Since I have seen all the 4 volumes of Sarfaroshi Ki Tamanna written by Madan Lal Verma Krant in the library of Sahitya Akademi, Delhi. Though written in Hindi but they are authentic. You can give there references as a secondary source. No problem.(122.177.39.1 (talk) 10:54, 12 June 2012 (UTC))

Reverting my edits again[edit]

My dear Sitush! I had started to improve the captioned article which was immediately reverted by you. As per general suggestions given by you on your user page I started editing the article and added some of references which were to be used as the citations in this article later. In case if I revert your edits you would mind it that is why I am asking you to please undo your revertions yourself so that I may proceed further. Otherwise this article would remain as it is. Because neither you will improve it nor you would like someone to improve it. I do hope a quick response from you. With thanks I remain in good faith of yours Krantmlverma (talk) 06:23, 18 June 2012 (UTC) Dr.'Krant'M.L.Verma (talkEmail)

I have already responded to your similar question here. Unfortunately, there are real concerns regarding your competence on English Wikipedia, another among many examples being this thread. As much as I do not want to see contributors leave the project, you have been here for some time now and continue to make the same mistakes (as you do also at Commons). It is therefore not surprising if people are keeping a close eye on what you do. It may be that you would find the Hindi Wikipedia a more appropriate outlet for your contributions, although I seem to recall an admin telling me that you were having difficulties there also. Sorry, but sometimes that is how it is. - Sitush (talk) 09:19, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
HAY? Sitush! As per your guidence on your talk page I have this day removed the File of Lala Hardayal from this article and have put up the suggested tags on this article. So far as the uploading of the captioned file is concerned, when I uploaded the said jpg file of Har Dayal on 16 June 2012 there was no tag placed there on this File in Wikicommons. Moreover this file was uploaded on wikicommons by some other user, not by me (you can see the File History there). You are requested to please guide me from time to time.-Krantmlverma (talk) 05:49, 19 June 2012 (UTC)Dr.'Krant'M.L.Verma (talkEmail)
Please add refs using cite web template! Don't add bare URs directly like <ref>www.example.com</ref>. And add reliable sources. See WP:RS. I have also noticed you have removed maintenance tags improperly.
Talking about your these edits
It was e furious speeches and verses of Bismil that they became hostile against British Raj. and you changed to– speeches and verses of Bismil and becoming hostile against British Raj. but where is the citation?
It was living from the business, Bismil remained discontented with the existence of British rule in India. you changed to g from the business, Bismil remained discontented with the existence of British rule in India according to his autobiography. – still needs citation that it was mentioned in his autobiography!
Etc. --Tito Dutta 07:57, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Reverting edits by Sitush again and again[edit]

Hey Sitush! if you do not know Hindi why do you debar others who know English & Hindi both languages. Wikipedia is not only for English knowing persons, others also use it. If you will behave like this how would it be possible for us to read or edit. Whosoever edit this article you revert it for this reason or that reason. This is not good at all. Do not charge me for others to whom you have blocked for a indefinite period whether he be Krantmlverma or Awadhesh Pandey. If you have your proper identity put it on your user page otherwise nobody would like to talk to you. I had edited this article with proper citataion even then you reverted it. Tell me the reason, why? ....Quicksilver7784 (talk) 10:50, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

The message above refers to comments made at User_talk:Quicksilver7784#Ram Prasad Bismil. Please explain why M. L. Verma, who self-styles as "Krant M L Verma" (see User:Krantmlverma), is a reliable source. The guy's stuff has been removed on countless occasions from countless articles. Oh, and I have blocked no-one, nor do I have the capability to do so. - Sitush (talk) 11:10, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Quicksilver, you may not request that anybody put their "proper identity" unto Wikipedia. One of the founding principles of all Wikimedia projects is that people may edit anonymously, or by using a pseudonym. With that being said, please take a read through WP:RS, which are our guidelines for reliable sources. If you think that article and person meet the requirements, please explain here. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:57, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Mr.Qwyrxian! I am giving you two important links of worldcat organisation from where you can judge whether the books of which I had given the reference hereinabove is a reliable source or not.

Even then if Mr Sitush is not satisfied what else can be done here? Hope at least you will rely me. ....Quicksilver7784 (talk) 06:10, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Verma is a poet and late-starting, almost honorific academic in the subject of literature. His works on revolutionaries are an amateur interest and his clear inability to follow even basic organisational rules make his competence as a researcher questionable, especially bearing in mind his POV. Consequently, his historical works are of no value to us. Worldcat proves nothjng. -Sitush (talk) 06:52, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Sitush, as an aside question, what are the conditions required for a global block on someone? I remember reading about some such recent proposal on meta somewhere. Can you throw some light? Regards, Lovy Singhal (talk) 07:58, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I have no idea, sorry. -Sitush (talk) 09:39, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
This one meta:Global blocks and I also posted opinion in the proposal you are talking about. And Verma is not the best source here! We can collect much better WP:RS --Tito Dutta 14:23, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

As per above guide lines of Mr.Qwyrxian and Mr.Tito Dutta I am giving once again WP:RS after thorough searching from www.worldcat.org. They are:

  1. http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3AKrant%2C+Madan+Lal+Verma%2C&qt=hot_author
  2. http://www.worldcat.org/wcidentities/lccn-no2005-41232
  3. http://www.worldcat.org/title/svadhinata-sangrama-ke-krantikari-sahitya-ka-itihasa/oclc/271682218

Moreover I have also gone through these books in Teen Murti Bhawan and Sahitya Akademi Libraries at New Delhi. These books are reliable on this subject.---Quicksilver7784 (talk) 17:47, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

The fact that the book is listed in worldcat means absolutely nothing with regards to whether or not it is a reliable source. All that means is that some libraries have it. Libraries regularly have thousands of books which are not reliable sources (say, outdated material, material by local authors, and, of course, the entire fiction section). So I don't understand why you keep mentioning the worldcat searches. Sitush has given a very convincing explanation of why this author is not a reliable source with respect to this topic, and you haven't responded to that. Unless you have a constructive, on topic response, there's nothing more we can tell you. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:08, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Please see my talk page. Some wiki-user has alleged me like this:
"Quicksilver, would you please answer Sitush's question about your connections with User:Krantmlverma and User:Awadhesh.Pandey, otherwise I may need to to ask our technical department to find out if they are the same. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)"
I have put my answer there as under:
"I had already replied Sitush on the proper place. I do not have any connection either with Verma or Pandey as alleged by you. I simply wanted to contribute wikipedia but now there is no use of myself to be active in this organisation. You people are determinant to rebuke any constructive contributer so as to keep your authority intact. That's all in my openion. Okey... Quicksilver7784 (talk) 12:17, 1 January 2013 (UTC)"
Now please tell me what else can be done? Quicksilver7784 (talk) 12:35, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
Done about what? We've already explained why those books can't be used as sources. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:25, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Would you please see these undermentioned 2 reference sources? Do they suffice the required criteria to make up this article better? May I copy after giving it's reference in the foot note of Article?

  1. .http://www.freeindia.org/biographies/freedomfighters/bismil/index.htm
  2. .http://www.flonnet.com/fl2225/stories/20051216001407800.htm

I am awaiting your reply. Quicksilver7784 (talk) 18:03, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

The freeindia.org is very clearly not a reliable source; it's a self-published website, there's no indication who wrote it, and the tone is extremely POV. The Frontline article is a reliable source, as Frontline is published by The Hindu. However, you can't just "copy giving it's reference in the footnote." We don't just add links to sources. If there is some information in that frontline article that you think should be added to the text of the WP article, add that information and then add the frontline article as a reference. If you don't know how to do that, please say here what you want to add to the article and where, and I'll show you how to format it. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:40, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
The Frontline one looks like a book review to me. As such, it is part op-ed. Perhaps I am being picky here, but I'd much rather use the book itself. - Sitush (talk) 03:45, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
Alright! if freeindia.org is not a reliable source then why these articles have taken the material from this website. I am refering here some of them, viz.Komarpant, Kharavela, K. Kelappan, Vidyaranya, List of Jains and many others on Wikipedia itself. Would you please reply? Quicksilver7784 (talk) 06:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

P.S. I have added these two sites in the External links of Ram Prasad Bismil:

Any of you would like to guide me properly how to add the material from these sites? so that I may proceed further. Quicksilver7784 (talk) 06:46, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Problematic source[edit]

We seem to have a problem regarding Igen., B.. (2005). Ram Prasad Bismil. Delhi 110084 India: Manoj Publications. p. 96. ISBN 81-310-0111-3.  , which appears in fact to be authored by M. I. Rajaswi. I can't see the book but the publisher is a virtual unknown and the fact that people have been citing a different author name as recently as a few hours ago makes me very concerned. - Sitush (talk) 11:00, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Here is the one but ISBN doesn't match. Might be above source is improperly cited or doesn't actually exist (at least on the official publication website). Another diff. is the publication year (2005 in the source given above, 2004 in the one found on web) and the writer name, B. Igen. in the first case, M. I. Rajaswi in the second case[3]. I guess, we could make a confirmation here related to the author and ISBN. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 15:05, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
I've left them an enquiry (info@manojpublications.com) related to book above. Not sure if they do answer mails. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 15:19, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for that. I'm really concerned about hagiography but let's just see whether you get a response first. - Sitush (talk) 15:28, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
24hrs. No reply. I'm not sure how long one should to wait before deleting this particular source. For now I'm tagging this source with {{verification needed}} template. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 15:49, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Following no reply to my mail, I chose to directly speak them on phone (011-27611349) regarding a book titled "Ram Prasad Bismil" written by B. Igen. There is no such book ever published by them (Manoj Publication). There's only one and that is written by M. Rajaswi. The non-existing invalid source must immediately be removed. It could be little tedious for me as I'm on phone, but would give it a try. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 09:37, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
That's excellent work, thanks. My suspicion is that someone oriignally made a genuine mistake and that thereafter bits were added using that mistake as a fake citation, hence the edit that caused me to raise the issue here a couple of days ago. I doubt that the Rajaswi book would be a reliable source anyway. - Sitush (talk) 10:29, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
I must thank you for pointing out the issue here on talk page. I'm partially agree with you on unreliability of the source despite numerous claims made by them on their website ([4]). I've my personal view till this very moment is that, Manoj publications could be used as a light source but not for some outstanding claim made anywhere on Wikipedia. They have some limited storage and are all available offline causing the {{verification}} issue. They are primarily established in the field of novels and comics under the banner of Manoj Pocket Books (one could easily find them on railway book stalls) as they admit on their website and perhaps that is why despite being a History major student I did not knew them until this post. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 16:58, 28 February 2014 (UTC)