Talk:Seven Seas

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Seven[edit]

The only sensible list of "Seven Seas" will have seven items. (Does that seem harsh?) The history of the expression "Seven Seas" is worth working on, starting from Google. One of the "seven Seas" is actually the Gulf of Mexico I remember reading... When this material is in good condition, it needs to be merged with Sea, in order to gain some badly-needed context. --Wetman 06:49, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The Gulf of Mexico??? That doesn't even make any sense, seeing how the term is from times and of regions that know nothing of the "New World." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.35.35.34 (talk) 20:44, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Indeed, it should have seven items, which is precisely why I had added the HTML comment <!--please add the others-->. This article should not be merged with sea; the term "Seven Seas" has been used so much in history that someone more knowledgeable in this topic could expand this article by a lot. Lowellian (talk)[[]] 08:10, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

Removal of some text[edit]

My apologies to User:Foobar. The ignoramus who deleted text he didn't understand was User:Foobaz. --Wetman

Ignoramus? That sounds an awful lot like a personal attack. Copying text from other websites and pasting it into wikipedia is a copyright violation. I also cleaned up your prose and sectioned the article. I don't appreciate that you reverted my useful changes to the article along with those you disagreed with. Also, your most recent edit summary stated, "adding link to World Atlas website used but not credited by User:Foobaz + added quote". I had never seen that website before now, and i don't see why you think i used it. Also, the "quote" you added was another copyright-violating copy/paste job from the atlas site. foobaz· 07:07, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
An ignoramus is a modest description. Apparently this overconfident junior-high-school student has never been required to quote a cited source, or enter a Reference or external link. The entry as I found it was not outstanding, to speak tactfully. We have a little problem here. --Wetman 09:00, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I too have a little problem, with your repeated personal attacks and your misleading edit summaries, such as "(See also Four Continents)" for a revert. But, the main reason i edited this page was to add the rest of the seas and my pretty picture, so i'll let you have your "metaphyical geographizings", "elaborate disquisitions", and "mirabile dictu". foobaz· 16:32, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I don't appreciate you heckling this kid -Cam

This isn't right yah know — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.205.117.245 (talk) 10:34, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Title[edit]

On a more adult note, the title here, if it were following Wikipedia practice, would be Seven seas, without the capitalization. I'll move it in a week or so, if there are no objections. --Wetman 09:19, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The term is capitalized, as it has historically referred to seven specific seas, rather than just any seven seas. In English translations of old texts, you will find sentences like, "...he was cast about all of the Seven Seas..." —Lowellian (talk) 05:14, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Latin[edit]

I'm not completely sure, but aren't mirabile dictu, and the other's Latin? ... If so, where the the definitions? ... Mind you I was able to divine a meaning out of the text, but that is just conjecture. Equally as important is the flow ... majority of this text is quoted material, can we clean up the reading so that this is something other than an illegible entry in an unnamed but equally cryptic encycolopedia? While I wasn't thinking it was worth an entry, you've done enough work to convince me. -- Dbroadwell 05:41, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"Mirabile dictu" seems to have disappeared, but while it's certainly Latin, it's also become incorporated into English. The phrase should be in most English dictionaries: it's certainly in Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. - Nunh-huh 05:18, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Yes that was some time and many edits ago, the article has improved significantly. Even so, the latin terminologies still need improvement. While one can infer the meaning of 'septem maria' as 'Seven Seas' from the article's context, it does need to be plainly stated. As such, the place for that definition has not made itself obvious in the article yet. -- Dbroadwell 07:32, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

What an excellent article![edit]

Good job! Intrigue 16:43, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Seven Seas and China Tea Routes[edit]

It has long been lore among sailors that any “Old Salt” who had “sailed the Seven Seas” proved he had been on the old Clipper Ship Tea Route from China to England, which was the longest trade route under sail and which took the Clippers through the Banda Sea, the Celebes Sea, the Flores Sea, the Java Sea, the South China Sea, the Sulu Sea, and the Timor Sea. Thus to traditional sailors, these are the Seven Seas.

Comments?--68.34.100.158 01:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

On 5 November 2006 someone edited the main article to say that the seven seas refers to seven small seas throughout the Dutch East Indies. But it didn't give the names of the seas. Do you think those are the same seven seas? - Shaheenjim (talk) 17:31, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Those seven seas are all near the Dutch East Indies. So I decided they probably are the same, and added those seas to that section. - Shaheenjim (talk) 04:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Whauu!!! good job ! You have made a good job and helped a lot by the way the seas are beautiful but try adding more pictures thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.1.37.55 (talk) 19:29, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

That part is referenced to a marketing website of a commercial organisation - I don't think that is a good source and there really ought to be some better sources out there if that was common usage of the term. -- Beardo (talk) 22:03, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Local waters of Venice or maybe Florence?[edit]

Darn.

I read within the last year or so that the "Seven Seas" was a very specific and literal reference to a tricky and hazardous navigational challenge in the waters off of, I think, Venice or perhaps Florence, in which shoals delimited seven deep basins; the only way to safely enter or leave the harbor was by way of these "seven seas."

If I run across it again and can reference it, I'll add it. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Hah! This isn't where I saw it, but this is what I was referring to:

Deposits of silt had not yet built up in the deltas of the Po and the Adige which now separate the Venetian lagoon from that of Comacchio to the south. In that area in Roman times were open bodies of water to which Pliny gave the name "the seven seas." The expression "to sail the seven seas" was a classical flourish signifying nautical skill. It was applied to the Venetians long before they sailed the oceans."

Frederic Chapin Lane (1973). Venice, a Maritime Republic. Johns Hopkins University Press. ISBN 080181460X. , p. 4


True Seven Seas[edit]

To the ancients, "seven" often meant "many," and before the fifteenth century, the many seas of the world were: the Red Sea the Mediterranean Sea the Persian Gulf the Black Sea the Adriatic Sea the Caspian Sea the Indian Ocean

Today, the world ocean is generally divided into four main oceans:

the Arctic Ocean the Atlantic Ocean the Indian Ocean the Pacific Ocean In addition, there are numerous smaller seas and gulfs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.222.231.153 (talk) 14:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, they redefined the oceans in 2000 and added a Southern Ocean. - Shaheenjim (talk) 14:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
It may be true that any particular civilization may have had its particular seven seas but it seems to me that the most likely candidates for "the" Seven Seas are the Mediterranean Sea and the six other great bodies of water surrounding it, as listed in True Seven Seas above. The "seven of eleven" statement in the opening of the article needs some backing. - Rsduhamel (talk), 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't believe the Irish Sea and North Sea should be included in the Seven Seas. They were added in an edit on 31 December 2007 by an anonymous Wikipedia editor who never made an edit other than that one. Seems sketchy, so I deleted it. I also made an edit today that rephrased the introduction in general to clarify why some seas would be included in some definitions but not others (because they are sometimes considered to be parts of other seas). I invite people to review that edit and make sure they're ok with it. - Shaheenjim (talk) 17:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
The article currently says that the Seven Seas include "the Mediterranean Sea (including its marginal seas, notably the Adriatic Sea and the Aegean Sea, which are sometimes listed separately among the Seven Seas)." But I suspect that the Adriatic is always listed separately among the Seven Seas, and the Aegean never is. We can still note that the Aegean Sea is included among the Seven Seas as part of the Mediterranean Sea, but I suggest that we should change the wording to say that the Seven Seas include "the Mediterranean Sea, including its marginal seas, notably the Adriatic Sea (which is listed separately among the Seven Seas) and the Aegean Sea." Comments? - Shaheenjim (talk) 04:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Also, come to think of it, I think it should be "the Indian Ocean or the Arabian Sea," rather than "the Indian Ocean and/or the Arabian Sea." If the Adriatic is always included, then having both the Indian Ocean and the Arabian Sea would make eight seas, rather than seven. - Shaheenjim (talk) 05:51, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Alternate definitions[edit]

This website: [1] from the Library of Congress says, "Other geographers state that the seven seas were the Mediterranean and Red Seas, Indian Ocean, Persian Gulf, China Sea, and the West and East African Seas." Can anybody make sense of that? I think there are multiple China Seas, and I don't know what it means by "the West and East African Seas." - Shaheenjim (talk) 16:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, this website says that the Chinese had their own definition of the seven seas. Does anyone know what it is? - Shaheenjim (talk) 16:08, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Correct spelling of Muhammad and link[edit]

I corrected the misspelling of Muhammad and provided the link to its Wikipedia article. - Benjamin Franklin 98.249.252.218 (talk) 12:50, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Ancient connection of the perceived '7 Seas' to the observed '7 Classical Planets'/'7 Heavens'[edit]

I just added, The Mesopotamians were the first in the history of astronomy to keep records of the 7 moving objects in the heavens - the 7 Classical Planets/Seven Heavens - and they made this connection to their 7 Seas<ref]citation needed</ref]. - Benjamin Franklin 98.249.252.218 (talk) 13:05, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Medieval Europeans' "7 Seas" + 4 other Large Bodies of Water (Atlantic Ocean, Aegean Sea, Indian Ocean, North Sea)[edit]

The Medieval Europeans were very well aware of the Atlantic Ocean! - Benjamin Franklin 98.249.252.218 (talk) 13:21, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

The ancients observed the 7 Classical Planets & 4 lunar phases of 7 days each and made symbolic connections to this sign from the gods[edit]

The ancients observed 7 moving objects in the heavens - the 7 Classical Planets/Seven Heavens - as well as the 4 lunar phases being a little over 7 days (~7.4 days) each. They then connected their different perceived "7 Seas" to the #7 coming from the heavens, as well as the 7 levels of the ziggurats, 7 Palms in the Egyptian Royal Cubits, 7 levels of the first Egyptian Step Pyramid, 7 Metals of Antiquity, 7 Vital Organs, Seven Wonders of the World, 7 lamps in the Hebrews' menorah, etc. Isaac Newton came along and connected his subjective Seven colors of the Spectrum with the Seven musical tones and the Seven days of the Week. Pope Gregory came up with the Seven Deadly Sins patterned after the 7 Classical Planets and the constant use of the #7 in the Bible. - Benjamin Franklin 98.249.252.218 (talk) 13:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Modern usage[edit]

There are rather more than seven seas in the world. Therefore it's unlikely that a scientist or navigator would ever need to use the phrase. And even more unlikely that anybody associates the phrase with seven actual seas. I would go further, and suggest that this term is nowadays confined to idiomatic or lyrical use, rather than factual or scientific. "To sail on the seven seas" is just a poetic way of saying "To do a lot of sailing" (as in the OMD song).Darorcilmir (talk) 22:37, 6 April 2016 (UTC)


Medieval Arabia[edit]

Arabic literature and poetry's usage of the seven seas, wasn't only in Arabia (the arabian peninsula), but was used all over the Arabic speaking world by Arabs from Morocco to Oman. up till this day. according to this link, (http://www.uobabylon.edu.iq/uobColeges/service_showrest.aspx?fid=11&pubid=5084) the University of Babylon, the term seven seas is to describe mass bodies of water that seperated lands, and are listed as

  • - Mediterranean Sea
  • - Red Sea
  • - Black Sea
  • - Sea of Qasvin (Caspian sea)
  • - Sea of Arabs (Arabian sea)
  • - Gulf of Arabs (Persian gulf)
  • - Adriatic Sea

The article has no mention of the gulf of Bengal, strait of Malacca, etc.. yet identifies that modern geographers have agreed that the seven modern seas of today are the seven oceans. ~~--

Phonetician or Venetian[edit]

Perhaps refers to the Mediterranean, Tyrrhenian, Ionian, Adriatic, Aegean, Balearic, and Alboran Seas. 2600:8806:205:700:ECBD:1F95:7ABA:81ED (talk) 22:08, 16 April 2017 (UTC)