Talk:Skulltula

Merge

While a semi-noticeable enemy of Ocarina of Time, it is completely skippable in Majora's Mask and makes only small appearances in Twilight Princess. Since it appears in only three games, and only appears commonly in one (in which it is only a minor enemy, at that), I believe this page should be merged with Enemies in The Legend of Zelda series, especially since this whole page could easily be trimmed.KrytenKoro 20:30, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

The Enemies page is already too long, so adding more info when splitting the article is needed doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter how many games a creature is in. What matters is how important they are or how common they are. While most appearances by them are optional, they are still there. Skulltulas aren't as common as some enemies, but compared to some of the other enemies in the series, Skulltulas seem like a regular species. This article could be trimmed and put in the main article, but I really don't believe it needs to. --Superneoking 19:58, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

The fact that the enemies page is huge doesn't really make the split articles more notable. The rest of your arguments are legit though. Gurko 09:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

What I meant by looking at how common and how frequent they are is to compare them to something like Octoroks - very common in the games, and frequent throughout the series. Though they are minor enemies, this frequency, and the fact that it was harped on by WW, lend to their notability. However, something like the Nejiron, which appears only rarely in one game, would not be very notable at all, even though you could write a good bit about how it resembles Gorons, etc. Familarity to the player is also important - why would something like the Black Boes, which you hardly even know you are fighting, warrant its own article?

By the way - what exactly do you mean to say by "they seem like a regular species"? Are you meaning that they are more familiar to the player? If that's the case, then that might be a reason to keep it split - the gold skulltula quests in particular could be evidence enough.KrytenKoro 07:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

By regular species I mean it is an enemy familiar with and identifiable by players. They might not be regularly fought, but they are still a well known species due to their roles in the games. So yes, that is what I meant. --Superneoking 16:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Fine, then that assertion needs to be backed up. And lists of enemies would not count as true mentions of familiarity, for obvious reasons - this needs to be something where the skulltula is picked out as a familiar enemy.

Also, besides the GS quest, they don't have a "role" in the game.KrytenKoro 18:49, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I do think that the Skulltula should have its own article, because they do have an important role as enemies in the game!!!

Reason #1 When link went to the Spider Houses, Link had to find and kill all the Gold Skulltulas to release the curse.

Reason #2 In master Quest, they sometimes make the puzzles harder, because they often get in the way long enough to waste Link's Time Limit.

Reason #3 They appear in more than one game and there are many types of them.

Reason #4 The Enemies list is too big.

Reason #5 (my opinion) It is the most fearsome spider ever in OOT/MM (the way it decends...SHUDDERS!).

...wow. Just wow. That's it, I'm packing up shop. I mean, I thought that people that got through Master Quest would need at least a few braincells, but that's it. You've finished off my faith in humanity. Good game, people, good game.

1 - Correct, but as a fully optional sidequest, that may not be enough to make these creatures notable - or do the Golden Bugs from TP, or Kinstones from TMC also deserve their own pages? The essence of the GS quest is - five people are cursed into man-spiders. Kill 100 shiny spiders, they become uncursed and give you nifty stuff (or two people, in MM). Not really enough on its own to warrant an article.

2 - In Master Quest, ALL ENEMIES sometimes make the puzzles harder. Do Tailparasans also deserve their own article?

3 - So do most of the enemies in the series - as for types, there's small, large and golden (though small can also climb on walls). That's not that many. Boulders and Beetles make many more appearances, and are much harder to avoid. They are also more varied - but we don't have a seperate page for all Beetle enemies.

4 - That's a reason to make it more concise, to trim it - NOT to let its excess spill over into new articles.

5 - Great for you. I'm pretty sure it's the ONLY spider in OoT/MM, since Gohma is some kind of Crab/Mite thing (especially since most spiders have multiple eyes and few are parasitic).

1 and 3 are the closest to good reasons - possibly enough to make this enemy worth having an article. Though...this thing isn't real-world notable at all, is it?KrytenKoro 11:04, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes they should. These things as i should let you know are very scary (some people think that Skulltulas have a frightening appearence and decend so fast, it scares the crap out of them), plus, they would have been more famous if they made an appearence in WW (they appear in the 3-D Zelda games and WW is one of them, but did not appear in it).

So...you're saying that they would be notable if they appeared in TWW, and then admit that they did not. So, by your logic, they're not notable, yes? As for people getting scared by Skulltulas - you can hear them there, and if you would just look up, you can easily see them. They're not really that scary - if they are scary to you, you're probably not old enough to be playing the game at all.KrytenKoro 04:22, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Not old enough?!? I'm almost 17 years old!!!

Plus, Tailparasans are nowhere near as famous as the Skulltula (i believe Tailparasans have only appeared in one game (OOT mainly), and have never been seen again (i think).

There's this thing called maturity (or experience), and even though the government may think it is correlated to age, it's really not. As for Tailparasans - similar enemies have appeared in earlier games, even if they aren't tailparasans themselves. Moldorms and Lanmolas, mainstays of the series for a much longer time, don't get their own page - why should Skulltulas? The only real support to it they have is IF the fact that they were one of the earlier enemies revealed for TP, and similar stuff (development and design) is mentioned, and the Gold Skulltula quest.KrytenKoro 06:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Are you bent on merging the Skulltula Artice with the List of Enemies Article, because that would make you ugily persistant with me (i'm not trying to start a war, i just think that the Skulltula should have its own Article). The Skulltulas are one of many reoccuring enemies, plus, i consider the skulltula to have a higher rank than the Tailparasans.

Don't forget, Deeler are similar to Skulltulas (in the way that they decend and the fact that they are spiders as well), so the Tailparasans are not the only ones with enemies that are similar to it. Deeler appear in Zelda II.

...why would my wanting to fix the article imply that I'm obsessed? How about, are you bent on being a prick? Either this page needs to assert notability (which could be done, if someone got ahold of an interview on why they were one of the earlier revealed designs for TP, etc.) or be merged.

Yes, I know that they are reoccuring, but that doesn't make them notable enough to warrant an article - many other enemies are much more prevalent in the series, and don't have their own article. Octoroks have a reoccuring mention because the games themselves harp on it. Skulltulas, meanwhile, have appeared in three games, out of twelve. Dodongos, for one, are much more prevalent, and are often bosses or mini-bosses, but they are in the enemies list, because (excluding the boss appearances, which are on the boss page), they are just minor enemies that have no contribution to the games besides being there for Link to hurt. Moblins, which have an article, sometimes have character interaction. Armos' had a whole temple devoted to them in LA. Hell, Floormaster's were much more common than Skulltulas, and did more than just block Link - but they're in the list.

For Deeler - if you want to rename this article "Spider (The Legend of Zelda series)", then fine - but otherwise, they are NOT skulltulas.KrytenKoro 22:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

You don't have to be hateful about it. i mean, i know that some of those things once had their own articles (believe me, i once saw them), but i guess that Wikipedia decided to put them back in the enemies list (or in the bosses list). But you should know this, Redead only appeared in five games (OOT/OOTMQ (i consider Master Quest to be a remake of OOT, so they count as one game), MM, SSBM (Super Smash Bros Melee), TWW, and TP), having only three incarnations (the Redead used in OOT, MM, and SSBM are the same Redead, even if the fighting style for the Redead in SSBM has been altered, it is still the same Redead). aside from being the most frightening thing in the 3-D Zelda games (as well as being more frightening than the Skulltulas, which you claim are not that scary, but i have known some people who are scared of them), i don't think it is the most popular thing at all (Gibdos have appeared in more games than the Redead have, but with a couple exceptions, the ones in OOT/MM were just Redead, modified into gibdos, and they did not appear in TWW or TP (which featured Redead in both of these games, and the ones in TP looked a lot like mummies, which is what the Gibdos are based off of), but are still more famous than the Redead. yes it is true. The Skulltula are not as famous as the redead, but who knows? Maybe the Skulltula will appear in TWW for the Wii (i think that there will be a Wind Waker for the Wii). I'm not sure if they will or not, but i still think the Skulltulas are notable (and i said that the Deeler are similar to Skulltulas. I didn't say that they were related).

1. I'm not being "hateful". I am tired of all the recently made pages for things as miniscule as Keaton, just because someone liked the character.
2. SSBM is not a Zelda game, and does even less to assert notability - the ReDead is treated as a random item.
3. Again - I know people who are afraid of the Viacom sign-off. These games really aren't scary - if you want scary, play Resident Evil or something. These ReDead aren't even as horrific as zombies usually are.
4. You're looking at things backwards - The ReDead were based off the Gibdo, not the other way around.
5. Yes, I know the Gibdo is more "famous" - that's because it's not treated as a type of "one-off" enemy like ReDeads are.
6. TWW for the Wii - I highly, highly doubt it
7. Throughout all of this, you have neither shown how ReDeads nor Skulltulas are notable, besides a skippable sidequest - again, all you have to do is show that the creature is mentioned in a reliable source - all preliminary google searches show nothing but fansites, wikipedia itself, and ytmnd's and stuff. Google Scholar turns up a german pokemon forum as its only result for Skulltula. This is why I assert that the characters are not notable enough - at the very least, Octoroks are noted in-game for being so prevalent - the game makes an out-of-universe reference to them. Chu-chu's, I believe, REALLY don't deserve their own page, but I'm too tired to do much about that right now. Keatons, that page is a joke. Moblins, maybe, because they generally have a large presence of the game, and are treated as a sentient (if evil) race, instead of just [1], like Skulltulas are. Hell, Octoroks and ChuChus at least appeared as bosses once - Skulltulas and ReDeads/Gibdos have NEVER been anything more than mooks, except possibly in the MM Well, where they were still described as just deceased Terminans.KrytenKoro 08:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there is going to be a TWW (or similar game) for the Wii, as TMC (The Minish Cap), Four Swords, a certain minigame in WarioWare Smooth Moves (a non-Zelda game), and FSA (Four Swords Adventure) were based off TWW, this game is no different. I even saw Aryll (a character who is greatly known as a main reoccoring character in TWW. She only appeares in TWW, and no other zelda game) pick up a Wii and use it, thus Link's sword moves in sync with the Wii (and with poor Link attatched to it). The funny part is when a Seagull tries to grab the Wii away from Aryll, and then they fight over it and you can tell the impression that Link isn't to happy about spinning around because his sword is moving in sync with the Wii. I saw this on youtube (search Aryll Wii and you will see). I think it will be called Legend of Zelda: The wind waker, A Wii Adventure. This however has nothing to do about the Skulltulas, does it? Plus, assuming that they will appear in this game is just speculation, isn't it?

...That was a fan-made short. That was not from Nintendo. There could eventually be a Wii Zelda game with cel-shading graphics, but that wouldn't make it a TWW sequel.KrytenKoro 22:56, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say sequal, i think it was a (fan-made) remake of TWW.

And while I'm here, i should tell you this! If you think the Skulltula are as you would say, "not notable", think about that annoying Owl from OOT/MM (i forgot it's name). I only saw it in those two Zelda games, and the Skulltula appeared in three Zelda games (OOT, MM, and TP), so the Skulltula is more notable than the Owl (i don't care if the Owl's part in the Storyline is greater than the Skulltulas). I even see the Skulltula as the greatest spider ever. Greater than the other spiders in (even non-Zelda) games!

And if you intend to rename the Article, call it "Legend of Zelda series Spiders" (or something similar).

Kaepora Gaebora, and it was a major character. The Skulltulas were not. However - I do accept that the Gold Skulltula Quest and that Skulltula art was so prominent in the pre-release materials would be reason to call it notable. This means that this article needs to focus on that stuff, though, or it will likely get deleted by an AfD.

This article should not be renamed, however, as "spiders" is much too broad and open to original research.KrytenKoro 14:13, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll just throw in my two cents and say, any LoZ enemy that can and is holding it's own article and is not damaging anything else, should stay as their own article.

Let me see if I understand you - all LoZ enemies are allowed to have their own personal articles? I don't know what you mean by "damaging", besides violating the guidelines, which this article does - while I accept that an argument can be made for Skulltulas notability, it is not being made in this article. Either that needs to change, or this article needs to be merged. Being a meatbag in a game series does not make something notable or in any way encyclopedic, and we cannot allow this kind of thing to remain if we are truly trying to follow the guidelines.KrytenKoro 00:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. Find some sources. If you can't find any that AREN'T fansites, then this article needs to be merged. It's pretty obvious that you have little to no regard for wikipedia's policies, and you haven't made a single good argument. You talked alot about some stupid fan made thing that has no bearing on anything, and you said they were scary. make a real argument, or give up. DurinsBane87 04:16, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh stop complaining! If you are that serious, then make a "List Of Legend Of Zelda Series Reoccoring Enemies" Article, since you are that bent on merging the Skulltula Article. But don't alter the information about the Skulltula! Put all the information about the Skulltula in that Article. OK?

...That's the article that the merge was suggesting.KrytenKoro

OK. So, i hope that i wasn't being that much of a problem. I just felt that it deserved it's own Article, but if you say that it must be merged, then do so with that Article that i talked about above.

Progressing

Since the decision was to merge, I think we should cut the article down to the appropriate length for what it's section will be, and then send it once we've cut it down significantly. I'll start. DurinsBane87 08:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I thin it's at an acceptable state to merge now. further cleanup would be easier to mantain on the enemies page. I'll merge it now. DurinsBane87 05:26, 2 August 2007 (UTC)