Talk:Slide guitar/Archive 1

Archive 1

Classic bluesmen

Using a butterknife isn't in this article at all, and is a noted way to play, e.g. T-Model Fordz — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.172.116 (talk) 04:30, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

The article really should mention names of some of the classic bluesmen who invented this technique (or at least were the first recorded examples). -- Jmabel 16:18, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

Since no one seems to be following through, I've just ventured to blindly assert this in the article. I'm not expert here & don't have names of who may have originated the technique, but it certainly was used by both Robert Johnson and Mississippi Fred McDowell. -- Jmabel 18:28, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)

I added a date and instrumental origin, but I don't have one for the first recording. That would be interesting to have. Hyacinth 03:55, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Diddley-bows

The reference to diddley-bows belongs here somewhere, but not within the discussion of the history of open tunings. It's nonsensical to claim that open tunings derive from a one-stringed instrument... --RobHutten 13:20, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Slides

• "Other items used for slides and noted in album notes or instructional books include other types of glass or metal tubing, a long 9/16 inch (14 mm) socket wrench socket, an old glass Coricidin pill bottle, and, in the case of Mississippi Fred McDowell 'a beef bone, filed with a file'."

This is from the old "Bottleneck guitar" article. It is uncited and I'm not sure if a list of specific DIY slides is that notable or informative or whatever. Hyacinth 03:55, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

speaking from experience and my own personal knowledge of slide guitar, potentially anything tubular can be used as a slide, considering that slide guitar started from using old bottle necks I think it's worth noting other kinds of slides. However, i think it's worth mentioning for any future slide guitarist the most suitable kind of slide and portray these other kinds of slides as unorthodox, the limitations behind using pill bottles and sockets is that you need to lay your fingers behind the slide in order to prevent overtones (these sound high pitched and not too good) and also certain alternatives will give a very poor dampened sound for example if you were to play with a highlighter pen. I think the article should say "a glass slide can give a full soud, a metal slide'll give a tinny sound (etc.) alternatively sockets and pill bottles can be used but they can be very dubious. Do you agree?--Mikeoman 11:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't call the sound of a metal slide "tinny". It tends to provide a louder sound. However what we are getting into here is individual preferences; also this is not meant to be an instruction book for would-be slide players. An important difference is between slides which fit over a finger, and allow use of the other fingers for fretting, damping overtones etc., and objects which must be gripped. This applies only (obviously) to guitar held in the normal position. I agree that this article is about technique rather than the instrument, but that's what it is - a technique which can be used on almost any string instrument (cf. Gus Cannon's "Poor Boy" using slide banjo). Instruments specifically-designed for slide playing should have their own section. 121.99.84.227 (talk) 20:18, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Butterknife!!!198.228.201.153 (talk) 16:57, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Needs rewrite/repair

Overly condensed from previous slide guitar and bottleneck guitar articles; has lost all differentiation between slide/bottleneck playing in regular guitar position, and playing slide on lap or flat position. Gzuckier 20:14, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A slide guitar is not a bottleneck guitar. The article should make reference to fretted and fretless guitars and positions they are held. Also the use of vibrato bars in guitarists such as Don Felder.--Fuwah 12:09, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

The article seems to be about a playing style - not about the actual instruments used. The actual instruments can be a regular steel-string guitar (electric or acoustic); a steel-string with the nut and bridge raised (in this case it can oly be played with a slide); a dobro guitar; a steel-guitar or lap steel (the ones typically used in country music) and the Weissenborn. Whatever your instrument of choice, its about draging something across the strings. Well, that's a big list! Do we need it here? I don't think fretless guitar playing qualifies as slide - its cool, but maybe it deserves its own article? It has more to do with experimental and micortonal stuff than with bluesy roots. Vibrato or tremolo bars are not "slide" as such, and if understood this way we would qualify half of '80s heavy players as "slide" - absurd, no? --Modi 09:43, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

i have added the name of a veery famous person playing slide :: David Gilmore of THE Pink Floyd (anon 21 July 2005)

Image

What is the theory under which the Rough Guide photo here is fair use? -- Jmabel | Talk 03:50, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Gzuckier 04:18, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the picture. The fair-use criteria would certainly work for an article about the album, but we can't use it as an illustration for another article. — KayEss | talk 04:22, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Lightnin' Hopkins

I removed Lightnin Hopkins as a prominent slide player, since he was not. He might have played some slide though I don't know of any recordings. He was a magnificent guitar player and perfect example of no compromise real acoustic blues (fingerstyle) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.118.56.179 (talk • contribs) 29 Aug 2005

Open D

I added a link to the Open D article I wrote. DanG 12:01, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Hendrix

To my knowledge, Jimi Hendrix did not ever play slide guitar while playing the Star Spangled Banner, and I'm 100% sure he didn't at Woodstock, which is his most famous rendering of the Star Spangled Banner. He got his "wailing and screaming" sounds primarily with the Whammy Bar. Because of this I've removed the reference from the article. Jhayes94 02:32, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to say that Jhayes is correct, I think it's worth noting though as recently I saw a video of Hendrix playing at wood stock, that he was wearing something on his hand that could he confused with a slide, but it's not(i'm not sure what it is but it's not a slide). i've read the tab and there are a few of trills(hammering on or off is very difficult with a slide due to the weight), as Jhayes said, he used the whamy bar and he did slide towards the begginning, but it's important to note that he only did so with his fingers and he didn't use a slide.

Structure

This edit removed much of my work to reorganise the article to give it a more consistent structure. It moved a lot of text into a vague "introduction" section which just resurrected the problems of the old version before my reorganisation, which is that there is a huge chunk of unstructured text which is hard to navigate.

I have restored the structure I gave the article, plus my own edits to the text itself (PLEASE don't do reverts like that again!), but also preserved the intervening edits where these made sense, and carefully added the material I deleted (which I felt was either redundant or unencyclopaedic) which U Go Boy saw fit to reinstate. I've also put the history section at the bottom. I thought it was better further up, but apparently others disagree. Hairy Dude 16:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Race bias

This article sure does talk disproportionately about white people in describing a playing technique of African American origin. - Jmabel | Talk 19:01, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

While I tend to agree with you, I suspect it's reflective more of the racial demographic of contemporary slide players than it is of any actual collective racial bias of the contributors. It's almost definitely the case that there are currently more white than black active interpreters of African American traditional music, slide guitar or otherwise. --RobHutten 02:39, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. But it's definitely currentism. Most of the great innovators of the technique were Black. - Jmabel | Talk 19:36, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Question

Is there a difference between slide guitar and lead guitar, or is slide just a style of playing lead? I ask because it confuses me when I read that Duane Allman played both slide and lead guitar with the Allman Bros. Cubs Fan 04:08, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Orthogonal terms. Slide guitar is a technique, using a slide rather than the fingers of one's left hand on the fretboard. Lead guitar means guitar as a lead instrument, usually involving a good deal of single-note playing, distinct from the more chord-oriented rhythm guitar. Rhythm guitar typically combines with the bass and drums to form the rhythm section of a rock band. - Jmabel | Talk 01:34, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Slide type info

Added the info that is always interesting to me about the hawaiians bringing the sound over in the 1900s, and added name of the person who invented the ceramic/porcelain guitar slide. Very encouraging. Really like the info about Sonny Landreth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Brassys (talk • contribs) 26 November 2006.

Do you have citation for Hawaiian origin? I've always presumed Black Southern origin. (It could, of course, be independent discovery.) - Jmabel | Talk 07:19, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Improving the history bit

The history bit I think is mostly good, however I think the focus is entirely on western music, I was reading somewhere that in India there are guitarists who have their own interpretation of slide guitar, where they sit down with a classical guitar on their lap facing upwards and the play slide, i've never heard this music however and I was wondering if anyone did and if they could contribute? --Mikeoman 12:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Somebody please do something about the discrepencies. In the intro, someone mentions that indeed slide guitar usage was most likely invented by the Hawaiians. However, in the History section, someone mentions that africans were using a similar tool to create similar sounds most likely first. some one please get to the bottom of this. I thought this website was somewhat reliable until I started reading a realized it was run by...us!(gasp!)

I may've misworded my question, so i'll rephrase it. Are there examples of how slide guitar has been used in a national/regional music? for example as the last guy said about Hawaiian music styles, in African music, or in aisian music?--Mikeoman 18:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

deleted a couple of laudatory phrases clearly inserted by fans of a specific artist or song 121.99.84.227 (talk) 20:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Different techniques

different bands, such as goldcard, pond or the flaming lips, also use the slide on the picking hand as a way to create the sound of orchestration. maybe we can work that in somehow, if maybe someone knows more about the topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.24.136.240 (talk) 07:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

John Paul Jones

I don't believe he is playing a bass guitar in this photo. I believe it is a Mellobar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jowston (talk • contribs) 05:01, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

No Hawaiian players?

Frank Ferera signed with Columbia Records in 1915 and Joseph Kekuku was touring the United States performing and teaching as early as 1904. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.72.244.157 (talk) 01:44, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Why no mention of Hawaii?

There was a massive fad for Hawaiian music in the late 19th century that included the use of slide (what would become known as "steel") guitar. This predates and probably was the grandaddy of almost all use of slide guitar in (mainland) American music - especially in country and western swing. Though it may be argued that blues slide developed separately, this article makes it seem that slide guitar sprang from the blues tradition alone, which is patently false. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.243.100.239 (talk) 05:24, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree. Hawaiian guitar recordings were available in the US South in the early 20th century (it was a craze, as noted), and were undoubtedly heard by blues players, with a strong possibility that they influenced blues techniques. One might also cite the remarkable slide version of "St Louis Blues" by the (probably white) Jim and Bob (effectively slide jazz guitar) as a product of Hawaiian influence. 121.99.84.227 (talk) 08:00, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Blues Guitar

is blues guitar playing really synonymous with slide guitar? First time I ever knew there was no difference in 35 years of guitar playing. Stub Mandrel (talk) 15:43, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

fireslide

An approach to slide guitar that does not use a bottleneck worn over a finger is to use the index and middle fingers to hold a weighted BIC® lighter (sold as the fireslide) against the strings. The middle, fourth and fifth fingers are used to fret between the slide and the bridge, allowing the player to perform sliding barred chords and scales.

67.193.179.147 (talk) 22:38, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

10/2017 edits to lead

Eagledj: MOS:LEAD includes:

The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents ... It should identify the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points ... Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.

Much of what appears in the current version of the lead should be in the main body of the article and have inline citations to reliable sources. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:40, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi, Ojorojo, I am currently working on the body of the article to ensure it is includes information alluded to in the lead. I have added several sources. Best --Eagledj (talk) 15:01, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

@Eagledj: The lead has been greatly improved. The History section could use some similar trimming – it has far too many rock examples and is almost entirely unreferenced. Also several of the existing refs seem to be blog-type user generated, links to retail sites, or are dead. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:22, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

@Ojorojo:Thanks—have thinned it out and deleted some weak/dead refs. It's coming along. While I have you, would you weigh in on this merge proposal discussion of lap slide guitar per the template above that article?--Eagledj (talk) 18:45, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

@Eagledj: More good trimming. A couple of points: Winter's style was well-developed before his association with Waters (this isn't mentioned in the AllMusic ref) and I'm not sure why Rogers is included (both come later). There could be more discussion of Nighthawk, Earl Hooker, Waters, and James (the Mount Rushmore of electric blues slide). Also, it may be worth mentioning the Stones' "Little Red Rooster", with Jones' slide, was probably the first song with a blues slide to reach number one (December 1964). Bloomfield and Bishop with Butterfield might also merit a mention as among the earliest blues-rock using slide (1963–1964). "The" isn't capitalized mid-sentence for "the Beatles" and the song titles should be in "quote marks", rather than italicized. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:59, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

@Ojorojo:, Great points, I will certainly include them. Now looking at the "Tunings" section, considering whether to delete it entirely. It is boring and is covered elsewhere HERE. Also, the lap slide has be redirected to our article.--Eagledj (talk) 19:12, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

@Eagledj: Yes, it should probably be added (briefly) to Technique, with the main ones in prose: Standard, open G, and D. Raising the pitch with a capo, etc., may also be noted, but listing them all is for the Open tuning article (which needs a lot of work) . —Ojorojo (talk) 16:47, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

@Ojorojo: Take another look, particularly at the "Lap slide guitar" section. I am being careful in my words to reconcile "steel" and "slide" terminology, and need feedback on it. I didn't put capo in, but I believe the other suggestions are incorporated. I debated about Weissenborn being in, but it has diehard fans. Took out Roy Rogers. Great article HERE, got most of them.--Eagledj (talk) 19:01, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

@Eagledj: Too cool, even if he borrowed Mt. Rushmore (?!?). I've never heard of Jerry Douglas, but he is obviously a player. Sounds more like a steel player. The section has very few references, which definitely needs to be fixed. I'll have to look more at Weissenborn. —Ojorojo (talk) 22:25, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

@Eagledj: You've managed to take a mess of an article and turn it into something well-researched, balanced, referenced, and very readable. The lap slide section looks good, but may have a bit too much technical info. If you're interested, a more thorough review might be part of a WP:GAN. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:38, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi Ojrojo,Yes, I'd be interested in a WP:GAN. I have been through the review process once before on THIS, which was nominated by Fuhghettaboutit, who has been my mentor. Your collaboration on the Slide guitar article really helped me. Will you nominate it? Incidentally, your Red House (song) was a textbook GA. Congratulations. Best--Eagledj (talk) 14:11, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

@Eagledj: The GAN instructions indicate a preference for someone who has "contributed significantly to the article". You've added all the text, found the refs, etc., while my contribution has been limited to the few comments here. Fuhghettaboutit questioned why you haven't nominated before. Maybe it's time. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:17, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Slide guitar/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ojorojo (talk · contribs) 14:23, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

I'll review this. I'm looking over a FLC right now, so ignore the "This process may take up to 7 days" bot message. It'll take as long as needed. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:23, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Overall, the article looks good. I'll start by making some minor MOS changes, which is easier than listing them here. Please change them if they are a problem.

I've removed links to sites that appear to have user-generated content. I don't think it will be a problem to replace these with RS (try a google book search). If not, the material probably shouldn't be in the article (Brian Cober/Double slide?). —Ojorojo (talk) 17:13, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

• Audio samples: the captions should describe the sample and not include commentary (that's for the main body). Also, I'm not sure that Johnson's TRB is "one of the best-known examples". Perhaps something like "First 29 seconds including Johnson's slide guitar". Same with DMB, "x second sample including James' use of a repeating slide triplets figure". —Ojorojo (talk) 14:46, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
• History

• The ref indicates that "the 'diddley bow' is derived from a one-string African instrument", not that the African instrument was called a diddley bow (also note lower case "d").
• "Some of the blues artists who most prominently used the slide": needs a ref (I have an All Music Guide to the Blues that lists Son House, Charley Patton, Bukka White, Robert Johnson, Kokomo Arnold, Casey Bill Weldon, Tampa Red, Mississippi Fred McDowell, etc. – but no Blind Willies). —Ojorojo (talk) 15:12, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions--here is a checklist:

• replaced weak refs with stronger ones
• Had already deleted "double slide" section and image (it was a cool picture, but nothing in literature)
• Fixed captions under sound files
• changed "diddley bow"
• revised list of blues pioneers with Allmusic ref
• Added paragraph about delta blues migrating to other cities--Eagledj (talk) 17:28, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

• Looks good. The last point is of interest to urban blues, but, except for Chicago, doesn't really apply to slide (& isn't mentioned in the ref). —Ojorojo (talk) 16:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

• Influential early electric slide guitarists

• I added a bit about Nighthawk and will do the same for Hooker, James, and Waters. Also, converted the book refs to ref=harv style (easier to deal with; doesn't affect the web refs). —Ojorojo (talk) 18:21, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
• Johnny Winter – I'm not sure why this should be here. The ref only says that Winter played with (and produced) some Muddy Waters' albums from 1976–1981 (a later point in Winter's career) and nothing about what Winter may have gotten from him (a point I was trying to get across in an earlier comment). Bloomfield actually learned from Waters in the early 1960s. I hope to add this to next section. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:29, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

• Good digging. I was not able to pin down the page or text for the mention of Hawaiian guitar influence attributed to the Cambridge Companion to the Blues. Shouldn't it have a ref/page?

• I used an online eBook preview, which doesn't show page numbers. So I used {sfn|Moore|2003|loc=eBook}. Is there a better way? —Ojorojo (talk) 00:50, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

• Added Sol Hoopii, Hawaiian influence on Mississippi blues—(my first ref=harv style)

• Nice. I made a couple of minor adjustments (clicking on the "Note" didn't lead to the ref). —Ojorojo (talk) 00:50, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

• Remove Johnny Winter fine with me, but he is mentioned in a lot of slide articles--Eagledj (talk) 23:23, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

• Winter was definitely a player, but so is Jeff Beck and a few others. Problem is, when you start adding them without sufficient narrative, it starts to look like a laundry list. —Ojorojo (talk) 00:50, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

• An idea: since "Slide guitar in rock music" only discusses the earliest guitarists who began in the 1960s, maybe title it "Early slide guitar in rock music" or "Slide guitar in 1960s rock music". This article is more of a historical overview and not a comprehensive listing. Maybe List of slide guitarists could be improved. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:03, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

• Harrison – In looking for refs, I found a quote from Harrison that it was actually McCartney on slide for "Drive My Car".[1] Another ref shows that Lennon played the slide on "Run for Your Life".[2] I've removed the Harrison paragraph for now. —Ojorojo (talk) 20:04, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Moving it along, suggestions noted:

• Changed section heading to "Slide guitar in 1960s rock music", more accurate description
• Cambridge Companion- took out direct quote and put paraphrase in text-- I think flows better with Tampa Red, since we're talking about him there. No strong feelings.
• Subheadings added- easier for the reader to scan quickly
• Footnote added because I was curious about origin of "Vestapol"---problem is that the Wikilink to Vestapol is misleading, so should we just not have a Wikilink there? (actually it's the Vestapol article that needs editing)
• Jettisoned some tedious details in "technique"(not a music lesson).
• We could do without the whole paragraph about Delta Blues moving to other cities, per your comment above. I thought I'd be flagged for too much about Chicago emphasis. Strike it? --Eagledj (talk) 18:49, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

• All are improvements. I removed the migration paragraph while repositioning the efn list. Hope to add more over the weekend. —Ojorojo (talk) 01:07, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

• Lap slide guitar – there are several sentences which need refs.

• "The steel is held in the non-dominant hand and pressed against the strings and moved horizontally to change the pitch. The ring and little finger usually rest on the strings to block unwanted overtones.[2]" "The lap instruments are typically plucked with the dominant hand, with or without finger picks. On occasion, an artist may use a flat pick. Both hands may be involved another important function—to dampen or mute unwanted strings and to stop notes in staccato passages to prevent notes from running together.[47]" – These two separate discussions overlap and could be reduced to one. Also, some of these techniques are common to slide guitar as well. Perhaps they could be discussed there and mentioned here as "As with slide guitar, lap slide uses similar picking and damping techniques." —Ojorojo (talk) 18:51, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
• "The instruments are designed with the strings relatively high off the fingerboard to allow for more pressure from a heavier steel without hitting the fingerboard. Actual frets may not exist on these instruments, only visual markers where the frets would normally be. The guitars have reinforced necks, often square, to withstand high tunings that would not be supported by the slimmer neck of a traditional guitar." – This sounds more like a lap steel; lap slide guitars are essentially regular guitars (but often with the bridge and sometimes nut raised). The photo has an example. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:51, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
• "The steel chosen may be in many different shapes and styles and is a matter of personal preference of the performer. The most common steel is a solid metal cylinder with one end rounded into a bullet shape, about 7⁄8 inch (2.2 centimetres) in diameter and 3 3⁄8 inches (8.6 centimetres) in length. Some lap slide guitar players choose a steel with a deep indentation or groove on each side so it can be held firmly (see photo), and may have squared-off ends. The better grip facilitates playing the rapid vibratos in blues music. This design, often used by resonator guitar players, facilitates hammer-on and pull-off notes.[47]" – there's too much detail here. Maybe something like "There are several steel designs and it is a matter of personal preference of the performer. Some are tube-shaped glass or metal, which fit over the players' finger. Other are similar to those used for steel guitar, such as a metal bar or a solid metal cylinder." The dimensions, indentation/groove, hammer-ons, etc., may be inappropriate for a more overview-type article. Maybe add the best of the info to the "Slides" section and move it to after "Lap slide guitar" section. —

Ojorojo (talk) 18:51, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Done

• "The "resophonic" or resonator guitar, invented in the late 1920s, ..." – There doesn't seem to be a preference for playing a dobro-type guitar on the lap vs. against the body. Two of the examples, House and White, did not play on the lap that I recall. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:51, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

• Resonator guitars should not be included in a "lap" section, since they are usually (primarily?) played in the traditional style. Maybe a separate section before "Slide". —Ojorojo (talk) 01:19, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Done

• "Nashvillian Jerry Douglas, called by Guitar Player magazine ..." Maybe add some other well-known players. Are most acoustic or are there electric players too? Any well-know songs that feature lap slide? —Ojorojo (talk) 18:51, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Jerry Douglas deleted--not a primary blues player

• "In the 1920's, Hermann Weissenborn manufactured ..." This may be more of a lap steel, than a lap slide. It is important to distinguish the two if possible. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:51, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

Weissenborn deleted--is unnecessary and off the main topic

• Points to possibly consider/expand on – Is there a preference for slide vs. lap slide for any particular sound or type of music?

No preference. A lap steel is used for country and jazz as well as blues. A slide guitar is used only in blues, never in the other genres.

Maybe regular guitarists favor one and steel/country the other? Does position of the steel hand (fingers pointing to the high E instead low E) make any difference? —Ojorojo (talk) 18:51, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

A regular guitarist could learn slide easily— just adapt to the slide on the little finger; however, a lap guitar is foreign to him, mainly because it is played with left hand pronated instead of supinated and he can't have use of the frets.

Not finding many lap slide superstars, but I have some leads--Eagledj (talk) 04:15, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

The article is looking better and better. The "Lap" and "Slides" sections have only a couple of references. For GAs, nearly all sentences should have inline citations. Also, I think sources for any players mentioned in "Lap" should specifically say "lap slide guitar". —Ojorojo (talk) 15:07, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

I will get more refs in the other sections you mentioned. In the lap slide section, I am researching Freddie Roulette and Darick Campbell of the Campbell Brothers. I plan to add both if you agree. "Sacred Steel" may not exactly fit the article, but has some incredible blues lap steel which is hard to ignore.--Eagledj (talk) 17:51, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Good additions for Woods, Turner, and Roulette. I'm not sure Darick Campbell should be included: he's obviously a great player, but the refs don't really support lap slide over lap steel. Plus, his music doesn't help the idea that lap slide is usually blues or rock; he could fit too easily into the lap steel category. Since so few lap slide players are mentioned, perhaps only the most obvious blues-type players should be included. Tipaldi mentions Sonny Rhodes and Kenny Neal (and other less focused players like Kelly Joe Phelps, David Lindley, Ben Harper, Jeff Healy, etc.)[3] —Ojorojo (talk) 18:17, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Agreed--Darick Campbell deleted— diff genre and not"historically prominent"in lap slide guitar. Looking now at those players you suggested. I've made some refinements throughout. I Thought we were too heavy on quotes, especially Herzhaft, so I made your block quote into a paraphrase. Feel free to change it of course if you feel strongly— just thought the quote was not worth the exalted position. What about the subheadings under lap slide section? OK with them?--Eagledj (talk) 14:46, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Agree. Including "Some historically prominent lap slide guitar players include:" is a good lead-in and discourages name dropping. Those mentioned above don't rise to this level. Unsure about the subheadings – they are used for the "Influential early electric slide guitarists" and "Lap" sections, but not "60s rock". It's up to you. Tipaldi (Phelps chapter) is one of the few who actually says "lap slide" and maybe he could be added as a ref for "Nevertheless, the term "lap slide" coexists with "lap steel" to describe the same instrument played in a different style." Phelps himself says "lap steel", but I think his quote is interesting about starting with slide then moving to lap, tone, technique, etc., and may have a general use. Too much to quote directly? —Ojorojo (talk) 15:34, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

OK, good suggestion for Tipaldi ref inserted for "slide" and "steel" terms co-existing— done. I revised the sentence as well on the distinction of the two terms. I have run the list of the lap players above, and, to me, none fit quite right for inclusion: some are multi-instrumentalists, not-primary lap artists; Jeff Healy does not play with a steel, but rather his fingertips; Kelly Joe Phelps, 90% of his youtube videos that I saw are on traditional guitar, not lap.(although his lap steel is superb, check THIS)--Eagledj (talk) 16:22, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Wow... I think lap slide has been explored well enough and the article is just about done (although I'd like to add to Cooder). Something to consider: the article focus is on blues-style playing, but slide guitar is also used for rock and even pop. I removed Harrison, because some of the songs were not played by him, but he did have some memorable slide songs ("My Sweet Lord", "Day After Day", etc.) in the 1970s. I not sure where this and some other possibly noteworthy players/songs would fit in. Any ideas? —Ojorojo (talk) 17:49, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

The heading "1960s" limits us there. Making another section about later players might be overload, but it would be nice getting Bonnie Raitt and maybe Derek Trucks, Jerry Douglas, possibly Kelly Joe Phelps as well as Harrison in there. Want me to keep digging? So far the article is pretty concise (we have the Mt.Rushmore players) so when is it time to wrap it up?--Eagledj (talk) 14:47, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Every time I think of a name, more come up. The article provides more of a historical overview and is strong and focused. It's time to say pass. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:37, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Take a look at the additions to Cooder and edit if needed. Then I'll add the GA. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:30, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Checking against the GA criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

Most of these points are covered in the discussions above.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   It is well referenced with inline cites on almost every sentence.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   It meets NPOV.

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales]y): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   It makes good use of images; all check out.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   Good job! This has come so far from the unfocused OR, blog and product link-filled state that it was in. Thanks for being persistent and patient and turning me on to some great players. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:07, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Guitar slide redirect, hatnote

I just added a hatnote linking to slide (guitar technique) & pick slide, because guitar slide redirects here. "Slide guitar" unambiguously means what's described here. But while "guitar slide" can obviously refer to the object used to play that way, at least my first association with this search term would be the general technique of sliding on the frets with fingers, used only on some notes — which is ubiquitous in Pop, Rock, and any other style I can think of. (Unfortunately, slide (guitar technique) currently just redirects to glissando... It is already linked on the Slide#Musical_instruments disambiguation page, though, and it deserves its own article/subsection.)

A hatnote on top of this article doesn't feel like the ideal place for disambiguating this, but the current situation seems confusing to non-guitarists, and I couldn't think of a better solution — at least as long "Guitar slide" links here (which, again, seems reasonable but not ideal)... Suggestions?

(Also, I was struggling with wording the hatnote in a way that is short but doesn't use too much terminology.)

Sorry if I'm being too wordy here — I'm somewhat new to WP and not very familiar as a guitarist with playing slide, and I don't want to come across as disrespectful, downplaying the importance of this style, or wanting to clutter this lovely article. Toxide (talk) 11:08, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

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