Talk:United Airlines Flight 93

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Featured article United Airlines Flight 93 is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 11, 2008.
July 26, 2008 Featured article candidate Promoted


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Whisperer in the CeeCee Lyles' audio[edit]

Hmmm, why are we bizarrely ignoring this alarming detail? "...Very much...It was great!". Surely we don't need a secondary source to support what we can hear with our own ears? Plus, in an airborne aeroplane, whispers wouldn't even be audible, and where's the characteristic cabin noise, that GTE Verizon's Lisa Jefferson(*) also remarked, was strangely low in Todd Beamer's distress call (*she would know)??? Beingsshepherd (talk) 18:12, 4 March 2014 (UTC)Beingsshepherd

No mention of Delta 89?[edit]

NOT to be confused with Delta 1989 (which IS mentioned in this article); where's the mysterious Las Vegas-bound, Boeing 767 (with the 7112 Transponder code and no Bureau of Transportation Statistics record) which NEADS identified as flying 'really close together' with 1989? Beingsshepherd (talk) 18:24, 4 March 2014 (UTC)Beingsshepherd

Nationalities[edit]

Is there a list of the nationalities of those on United 93, including the hijackers? Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 10:29, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

http://www.honorflight93.org/remember/?fa=passengers-crew
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks#United_Airlines_Flight_93 Beingsshepherd (talk) 18:05, 7 March 2014 (UTC)Beingsshepherd
Thanks. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 00:41, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Congressional Gold Medal[edit]

I am new to editing, but I am endorsing and adding to the worthy suggestion immediately below. The correct info and link is http://shuster.house.gov/press-releases/shuster-honors-fallen-heroes-of-september-11th-with-congressional-gold-medal/ rather than the reference note 111 which mentions an earlier pending legislative attempt; this press release at the above link, by the congressman from the district that sponsored the resolution announces that on Sept 10, 2014, the Gold Medal was presented to the Flight 93 Memorial (and others) on behalf of and in recognition of the entire flight's brave heroes. Speaker of the House and others performed the ceremony on Sept. 10 - this FWIW and FYI is the apparent settlement of the disputes over exactly whom should be given individual medals; its sort of a "group medal" compromise. 68.36.127.250 (talk) 07:28, 12 September 2014 (UTC)JK

I have no idea how to edit this article but it seems that the folks have been awarded the Congressional Gold Medal.

Source: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/capitolinq/Flight-93-passengers-crew-receive-Congress-highest-honor.html I would suspect there is a better one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.132.68.70 (talk) 03:53, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Cell Phones[edit]

As in the articles about other planes on 9/11, NO calls were made by cell phones, it is physically impossible at the altitude and speed held by the plane. Wikipedia is not a place for lies.174.73.5.74 (talk) 00:10, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Reliable sources indicate otherwise. Please do not insert your personal analysis into the article. Acroterion (talk) 01:54, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
two cell phone calls form FLigh93 at altitude of one mile

possible and who is the other idiot saying otherwise! 75.163.160.132 (talk) 05:27, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Truther Nuts[edit]

They claim there were no plane parts in the hole in PA. The whole thing was done by a missile, and used as an excuse to launch the second gulf war. Some attention should be paid to these curious people, for historical reasons, as the Pearl Harbor article does to that event's conspiracy types. Also, some links to the wealth of evidence of the plane crash in PA. The Popular Mechanics book "Debunking 9/11 Myths". is a good source for researchers. 76.102.148.112 (talk) 11:30, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

No reason whatsoever to pay attention to those nuts....here. But we do in articles dedicated to those conspiracy theories.--MONGO 12:27, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Absolutely agree with MONGO's comments. We often have to fight them off from the factual articles about 9/11. David J Johnson (talk) 12:56, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

OK, as long as they are mentioned somewhere. Maybe a link to there from here? But I'm glad to see some quality control in this article, certainly. 76.102.148.112 (talk) 17:53, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Three Mile Island as potential target[edit]

Lloyd Jeff Dumas apparently mentions in his book [1] that Three Mile Island was in the flight path, and would have made a particularly destructive target. Not sure how good the information is either way, but if the Capitol Building/White House as target are just as much speculation, this would be an interesting theory to add. It also makes an important point about potential threats in general, I suppose. -- Beland (talk) 02:52, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Does it just mention that TMI was in the flight path, or discuss it as an intended target? The TMI angle was mentioned at the time I think, but I believe the sources concerning intent have always focused on Washington. I wouldn't say that TMI and the White House/Capitol recieved equivalent levels of speculation, the balance has always been tipped toward Washington. Acroterion (talk) 12:43, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
KSM did mention that nuclear power plants were considered but rejected due to a concern that the American response might be out of control. He and OBL both underestimated the response anyway but neither thought the plane impacts would result in the twin towers at the WTC collapsing.--MONGO 13:46, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
KSM also said the target of Flight 93 was strictly Capitol Hill. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 02:00, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Removal of 9/11 Conclusion[edit]

Mongo has removed the conclusion of the 9/11 commission. So just wondering why? The passage was referenced including a number of citations from the Senior Counsel to the 9/11 commission, John Farmer.-- Esemono (talk) 23:11, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Farmer is a primary source and the only source used to support the section. Have these issues been printed elsewhere like another peer reviewed book?--MONGO 00:07, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
New York Times Article backs the book. He was the Senior Counsel to the 9/11 commission are you calling him a liar or that the 9/11 commission was lying? As outlined in the book the 9/11 commission all confirmed what he printed in his book-- Esemono (talk) 00:22, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
The NYT piece is a review of Farmer's book...it doesn't back the book, it just reviews it. I'll look at the 9/11 Commissions transcripts.--MONGO 02:50, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
I appreciate that you own this article but Farmer is the 9/11 commission he was the Senior Counsel. So you're accusing him of lying? I thought wikipedia was about sources and facts not what you "smell" not what you want to censor because of a hunch-- Esemono (talk) 03:39, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
I do not own any articles. Farmer was not on the Commission and I have yet to read all the sections from the Commissions report that pertain to this matter if any do. I will read through it by tomorrow.--MONGO 03:45, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Sorry I don't know what to call you, the bossman, Senior Admin, he-who-controls-this-page. Maybe I can help you with your original research. The times that were changed on Sept 17, 2001, the times Farmer refers to (you know the Senior Counsel to the 9/11 commission) are 9:24 and 9:34. Hope that helps. -- Esemono (talk) 05:31, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
The article in the NYT, by Farmer and others, is from the Opinion section, so Farmer is the only source for this. I'm not prepared to take one author at his word here. This is something that needs to be investigated by historians, weighing all the information. Also, there's a blp problem with calling the fighter pilot a liar. Tom Harrison Talk 13:35, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
That's where I sit on the issue as well....a secondary source would be helpful, one performed in an investigative fashion and with the same conclusions would make it all factual.--MONGO 15:58, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Totally agree withTom Harrison and MONGO's comments above. We cannot rely on just one source. Regards, David, David J Johnson (talk) 16:05, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Here is an NPR article that show the correct timeline. We know from public record that after the September 17, 2001 White House briefing the times were changed as Paul Wolfowitz and then Vice President Cheney on Sept 17, 2001 on an appearance on Meet the Press cited the changed timeline. -- Esemono (talk) 23:42, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

RfC notice[edit]

I have opened a request for comment at Talk:Columbia Township, Lorain County, Ohio related to United Airlines Flight 93. Feel free to give your thoughts to it. Pyrotlethe "y" is silent, BTW. 04:31, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

How many passengers?[edit]

It says 33 at one point (in the sidebar) and 37 at another. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.234.69.70 (talk) 16:48, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

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Shortcuts[edit]

There are two places where the term "plz" instead of "please" are used, as well as one instance of mssg: Under boarding, :"Ed, confirm latest mssg plz —Jason": Under Hijacking: "Heard report of incident. Plz confirm all is normal."

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.0.58.212 (talk) 20:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

  • Those are direct quotes and are correct. The messages were sent via the ACARS system. Shorthand is common. --Stabila711 (talk) 21:07, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

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USS Somerset (LPD-25)[edit]

I don't know if this should go in the section under Memorials, but this ship was named in honor of the heroes of Flight 93. http://40.media.tumblr.com/30de9ae506ef096e477ba7a5b3bf04f6/tumblr_ngosr0ijft1rrhyqfo1_1280.jpg photo] If you go to Google Images and type in "uss somerset (LPD 25)" and "flight 93" you'll see what I mean. Zyxwv99 (talk) 18:23, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Probably but it would need to be explained as the link between "Somerset" and UAL93 would not be obvious to nearly all our readers. MilborneOne (talk) 19:08, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
I assumed some explanation would be required. I just wasn't sure if it counted as a memorial by this article's definition. Zyxwv99 (talk) 20:06, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

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Death of Homer[edit]

Now, and for the last time. Somebody keeps modifying the section about Homer's fate when United 93 was hijacked. This or these people, in the effort to make 'official' the cinematographic image of Homer opening the door and being stabbed by the hijackers and that Captain Dahl being the one who shouted "mayday", keep repeating like parrots, sources that don't even talk about such a thing, while they kept cancelling all the more reliable sources from other observations- including the testimony of Homer's wife Melodie, not one of the thousands of far-fetched accounts given by sources like "9-11 America Under Attack" - that Homer was the person who shouted "mayday" on the cockpit voice recorder, and possibly was even alive after the hijacking (notice: I say possibly, and indeed I wrote in the article that Homer's actions are just what his wife believes, while these people use no actual sources and fictional books as facts). They deem all these accounts, including a testimony of Homer's wife, as "untrue", while the only certainly apocryphal accounts are those of Homer just being killed or that he and Dahl was removed from the cockpit and left in the back of the plane. And if we want to remain in theme of apocryphal accounts, let's talk about the sources (like "9-11 America Under Attack"), to which they desperately cling: it is a book that is completely inaccurate and fictional, that it is worse than any of the conspiracy theories that came in the wake of the tragedy. If you were to click on that source - you would agree it is not needed. Moreover, the other sources (the telegraph and ABC accounts) never mention a word that Homer was stabbed and killed during the hijacking: One more unjustified modify to that section and I will notify them for vandalism. Excuse me for being so rude but this has been repeated for nearly a month and without those people ever making a justification or asking anything, just erasing everything goes against what they state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.134.75 (talk) 10:30, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

The same discussion is on Homer's page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.134.75 (talk) 10:32, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

The opinion of the deceased pilots wife is just an opinion. This is a featured level article that has undergone a peer review as well as a featured article review. We can look at your information but for now I'm reverting your changes.--MONGO 11:19, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
This is the de facto banned UK Kennedy/Lincoln/Titanic IP, who's been more active recently. I've blocked the IP. Acroterion (talk) 12:58, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Dick Cheney quote[edit]

I have added a sentence containing a frequently-cited comment by Vice President Dick Cheney. I think I put it in a place that makes sense with the flow of the article. Please review my edit and its reference, and change it or relocate it as you see fit. RogerD (talk) 09:22, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Nonsensical, not footnoted[edit]

"Families and friends of the passengers believe, given their words by phone before the crash, that the passengers meant to crash the craft rather than allow it to reach its target."

Really? "Families and friends of the passengers" think that the passengers tried to get into the cockpit, get control of the plane—and crash it? Well, then, those families and friends must be pretty stupid. Had the passengers somehow gained control of the plane, why would they have crashed it?

The sentence, which is at the end of the introduction's penultimate paragraph, is nonsensical and not footnoted. I will delete it.98.114.58.231 (talk) 06:22, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

"Saeed"[edit]

I am pointing out that the cockpit voice recorder indicated that there were at least two hijackers in the cockpit. Jarrah was heard calling the other hijacker,"Saeed", which would mean Saeed al-Ghamdi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.188.214.234 (talk) 12:45, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Dahl and Homer[edit]

The CVR transcript suggests the pilots may have fought back (besides sending out a mayday call) and were possibly even alive after the hijacking. The CVR transcript says at least one pilot was alive; he was heard moaning - At 9:45:25 a pilot is asked for. At 9:53:35 he is forced to look out the window. They probably kept one alive in case they needed help with the airplane. (For example, when they wanted the oxygen turned off). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.104.210 (talk) 19:13, 10 February 2017 (UTC)