Talk:W. C. Renouf

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A fact from W. C. Renouf appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 31 January 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Winter Renouf, a British member of the Indian Civil Service, thought that farmers in the Punjab should grow Canadian wheat varieties?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/January. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/W. C. Renouf.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 19:52, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... ~~that British civil servant in India, Winter Renouf, thought that farmers in the Punjab should grow Canadian wheat varieties?~~
- Reviewed: Peanut, California

5x expanded by Philafrenzy (talk) and Whispyhistory (talk). Nominated by Philafrenzy (talk) at 22:48, 4 December 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/W. C. Renouf; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

I'll review this. QPQ checks out, article length and newness of 5x expansion checks out. I don't see any issues with the article; it's well sourced and generally well put-together. The hook is interesting, but I feel it could be phrased a little more clearly; what about something along the lines of ~~"...British Indian civil servant Winter Renouf advocated for Canadian wheat to be grown in Punjab?"~~ Generalissima (talk) 04:33, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. I chose that wording because he was a Briton in India, not a British Indian. As for the remainder of the hook, in all honesty, I prefer the original which was carefully worded in order to avoid ambiguity. Philafrenzy (talk) 11:39, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just drop the "in India" phrase, it's obvious already from the mention of the Punjab. Gatoclass (talk) 14:23, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I still prefer the original... but ALT1 ... ~~that British civil servant, Winter Renouf, thought that farmers in the Punjab should grow Canadian wheat varieties?~~ Philafrenzy (talk) 22:25, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How about:

ALT2: ... that Winter Renouf, a British member of the Indian Civil Service, thought that farmers in the Punjab should grow Canadian wheat varieties? Gatoclass (talk) 22:56, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, good. Philafrenzy (talk) 23:07, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall:

ALT2 verified. Gatoclass (talk) 11:55, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

McDougall Brothers report[edit]

Philafrenzy, are you citing a Times article by Renouf, or based on something he wrote, to say that the McDougall Brothers report was wrong to recommend "soft" white wheats? If so I would remove "wrongly" as the article is not independent. I don't have access to the Times myself. TSventon (talk) 19:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the complete section (OCR errors not removed). It's out of copyright.

"WHEAT GROWING IN THE PUNJAB.,The Department of Agriculture of the Punjab has published a bulletin by Mr. W. C. Renouf on the cultivation of stronger and more valuable wheats,I for export. It is evident that wheat production in,province has been conducted on wrong linos, I tho soft white varieties having been encouraged to tiw detriment of the stronger and hardier red sorts, ILrLLL",india, had analyses made of the different varieties, and also sent samples of the principal kinds for milling I and baking tests to Mr. Humphries, chairman of the eomynittco of the Incorporated National Society of British and Irish Millers, who, as chairman of the Komt> Grown Wheat Committee, has had exeepI tional opportunities for judging the milling qualities I of wheats. The outcome has been to prove that the Punjab hard red varieties arc much Stronger—that ^: rlehC;1'nitrogen content—than the soft white I wlv»stts, ana am much sunotior icom the point-of view,0[ tho English miller. The exaggerated estimate of the. white varieties dates from the report of Messrs, MacDougal Brothers, made in 1882. since which time nulling methods have greatly altered, and hard strong wheats are now universally favoured. But, though tho Punin,b alr(,ady possessed in the local hard red sorts wheats which were suited to modem preferences, and were even better adapted to tho local climate and soils than the soft white wheats, the latter until now, predominated. The object of the gg-lU,higher priced red varieties, which, unlike tho British farmer, he can do without sacrifice of quantity. The hindrance to the adoption of Canadian red wheats is thch inferior prolificacy, but. it is shown,that the hard rod sorts vive own heavier yields in ^]1(, Punjab-than tho white, and Mr. Renouf points out that, if by substituting hard for soft wheat the Punjab farmer increased the price by one anna per maund (821b.), the province would benefit on an ®xport of MOO.OTO toiis-a.quantity extended ta,I avflruso years to the extent of £HG(G(iG> It apoears,from correspondence included in the bulletin that the Karachi Chamber of Commerce is alive to the importance of the subject, and, though, deep-rooted customs die hard, there is reason to believe that tho Punjab farmers will seize the opportunity to better their position by cultivating varieties of wheat that vtill command higher prices in the English market."

The article is by The Times but they appear to agree with Renouf's words. Philafrenzy (talk) 20:37, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed "wrongly" because the Times report looks like a summary of Renouf's paper. Also the article is a hundred years old and WP:AGE MATTERS. The article says that "milling methods [had] greatly altered" since 1882 and technology changed further before the Green Revolution in India in the 1960s. It is also interesting to see that the Times misspelled "MacDougal Brothers". TSventon (talk) 21:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. If you didn't know, The Times archive is widely available in British public library electronic resources for free. Let me know if you can't access these and I can suggest a way that you can. Philafrenzy (talk) 22:47, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I have now managed to find The Times archive (and the 1910 article) via Gale at the Wikipedia Library. TSventon (talk) 00:05, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]