Talk:Watergate scandal

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Edit request from 24.213.255.200, 30 November 2010[edit]

Bold text{{edit semi-protected}} This page sucks and is lacking much of the information needed to gain a good knowledge of the watergate scandal. This page is lacking a strong backround and inside look on several of the culprits in this scandal.

24.213.255.200 (talk) 15:15, 30 November 2010 (UTC)I could make this page much better with some of my knowledge on this subject. Please let me fix this page.

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. What you ask is impossible. There is no way for us to allow one IP editor to edit the page, while still keeping the general semi-protection. If you have specific changes you would like to make, you may request them with a specific edit request in the form of "Please change X to Y" or "Please add A to Section B".

Alternatively, you can register for an account. You don't have to give any information other than a pseudonym and a password (you can optionally given an email address to help you in case you forget your password). Then, once your account has been registered for at least 4 days and you have made at least 10 edits (to articles that aren't semi-protected like this one), you'll be free to edit this and all other semi-protected articles.

Please note that one requirement of editing, whether it be through requests like this one or as an autoconfirmed editor, is that you provide sources for everything and keep all of the information neutral. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:35, 1 December 2010 (UTC)



This page is a nightmare to read because the first paragraph doesn't explain anything, ie why is the break-in a political scandal? I had no idea what it was all about and had to google it. PS for non-Americans too. I suggest editing it to :

The Watergate scandal was a 1970s United States political scandal resulting from the Watergate burglaries, the politically motivated break-in to the Democratic National Committee headquarters by opposing party Republicans later connected to the president and his office, that took place at the Watergate office complex in Washington, D.C. Effects of the scandal involving the cover-up, ultimately led to the resignation of the President of the United States, Richard Nixon, on August 9, 1974, the first and only resignation of any U.S. President. It also resulted in the indictment, trial, conviction and incarceration of several Nixon administration officials.


Also I think you should edit the second sentence in the second paragraph without "the" payments —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.153.4.138 (talk) 16:49, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Financial significance[edit]

In one of the tapes, one of Nixon's men noted that Britain had floated the Pound and that this was threatening the Lira. Nixon said, "I don't give a d*** about the lira (unintelligible)." This is how the Bretton Woods agreement worked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.194.200 (talk) 17:53, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

See Bretton Woods System. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.194.200 (talk) 12:13, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
I think it was Haldeman or Ehrlichman who was talking to Nixon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.194.200 (talk) 12:22, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
This was probably in the August of 1971.
See www.londonandoxford.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.194.200 (talk) 13:04, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
See www.londonandoxford.com/The_Euro/The_Euro_media_3.9.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.25.238 (talk) 15:55, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Haldeman was the one who was talking to Nixon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.148.25.238 (talk) 15:58, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Comparison to the News International Phone Hacking Scandal[edit]

It appears that many commentators are comparing the Watergate scandal with the unfolding scandal covered by the "News International phone hacking scandal" article. I drafted a summary of commentators comparison points with supporting information, which is currently available at my user sub-page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bryantbob/Comparisons_of_%22Murdochgate%22_to_%22Watergate%22. Contributors to the "News International phone hacking scandal" discussion page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:News_International_phone_hacking_scandal) do not feel the comparison is notable. I would appreciate comments from "Watergate Scandal" contributors on its notability, specifically whether it warrants status as a stand alone article that should be included as a "see also" link to the "Watergate Scandal" article. Thanks. Bryantbob (talk) 04:43, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

It is almost never appropriate to link from a historical article to a current affairs article, and I doubt that this is an exception. See WP:UNDUE and WP:RECENTISM. Hans Adler 12:50, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
Points well taken. Thanks.Bryantbob (talk) 04:26, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Your user page is originals research, Very interesting and well sourced original research but original research. Since we already have a line about "gate" scandals a sentence or two noting that the scandals are being compared updates the "gates" line to 2011. If a second sentence is needed I would use for the Dean comment since he was a major part of Watergate. Edkollin (talk) 21:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

The absurdity of the burglary[edit]

If this article gets the cleaning up it needs, it would be worth pointing out that the wiretaps and other mischief that Nixon's people had in mind were aimed at the candidacy of his opponent in the election, George McGovern. By the time of the break-in, it was clear to most people that McGovern's chances against Nixon were scant at best. Thus, authorizing the break-in and simply attempting it—which had a Keystone Kops quality to it from beginning to end—was unnecessary or, as I suggest, absurd, perhaps driven by Nixon's paranoia which emerged during the investigation in the aftermath of Watergate. Josephlestrange (talk) 13:12, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Right now this is just your and my opinion. Find a reliable source that agrees with this and then you can put this in even before a any cleanup. Edkollin (talk) 23:27, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

No background[edit]

This article is distinctly lacking in any background information about the Plumbers and their activities prior to the attempt to bug the DNC. Surely this information is relevant to this article. john k (talk) 15:52, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree. A couple of years ago I argued that this article should not be limited just to the break in and coverup but should have an opening paragraph with context since the events occurred before most people were born. Not just the Plumbers but how the combination of divisions in society, Nixon's personality Imperial Presidency etc led to the mindset in the view of many reliable sources led the administration to act that way. I was overruled, the consensus was that we had separate articles for those things and that was that. Watergate was considered an umbrella term for abuse of executive power during the Nixon administration. There are plenty of Reliable sources that define it that way. Edkollin (talk) 00:03, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Yep, there's nothing at all in the article approaching a discussion about why the burglary and wiretapping of top level Dem locations was undertaken, with the inherent high risks. There would have been more specific reasons than just "guys, it's convenient to listen in on what they re talking about over there". One very likely reason would have been that Nixon wished to be able to sell to the voters in the '72 elections that McGovern and the Democrats in general were closely involved with some kind of youthful radicals who could be shown up as going too far, the anti-war liberals, draft dodgers, people like the Kent State students or whomever: "vote for McGovern and you vote for the hippies and junkie radicals!". There has to be some research or political historians discussing this, though I admit that the books I've seen about Watergate are not big on discussing Nixon's motivations either. 83.254.154.164 (talk) 12:08, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Wiretapping of the Democratic Party's headquarters[edit]

...which involved burgling the Democratic National Committee's (DNC) headquarters...

It seems to me that "burgling" would require that something actually be stolen, which I do not believe was the case. Perhaps the phrase "breaking into" would more accurately portray the actual 1972 event. Dick Kimball (talk) 16:20, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

  • no No action. Burglary does not require or imply theft. At least 7 persons were convicted of burglary. 75.210.3.179 (talk) 04:51, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be burglaring the HQ though? 83.254.154.164 (talk) 12:14, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Who was the asshole...[edit]

Two alternative quotes are offered in the article for Nixon's reaction of the break in, “Who was the asshole who ordered it?” and "Who was the asshole that did it?" (the two have different quotation marks, by the way).

So which one was it? --Diblidabliduu (talk) 17:35, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

External links[edit]

Hello.

On May 13 I added a link to dozens of House Judiciary Committee hearing transcripts on its investigation of Watergate. These pdf files, on archive.org, digitized by public libraries, are valuable primary sources for people researching the history of Watergate. They were removed by ENLO #9 eight hours later. Not moved to some other part of the external links section, but entirely deleted. I don't understand why this important resource would be removed from the external links section, while there are some links to dead web pages (http://www.woodwardandbernstein.net) that remain unmolested. I don't want to start a flame war, but any help that folks could provide to explain what does and does not go into "external links" would be appreciated.

In the meantime, here is the link that I proposed adding, which I assumed would be totally uncontroversial: Hearing Transcripts and "Statements of Information" from the House Judiciary Committee on its investigation of Watergate

Tsg946 (talk) 16:56, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

If you are looking for information regarding what may or may not go into the "External links" section, please see Wikipedia:External links. Regarding links that should generally be avoided, WP:ELNO #9 states: "Any search results pages, such as links to individual website searches, search engines, search aggregators, or RSS feeds." (You could also seek a second opinion at Wikipedia:External links/Noticeboard.) Location (talk) 20:01, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Page Lock[edit]

I think that this page should be looked into to fix some slack in some areas, and I also think that this page should be locked,as protected as the presidents' Wiki pages, due to the fact that it was such a big deal internationally when it happened.Deweypants (talk) 01:36, 19 June 2013 (UTC) Deweypants

Political and cultural reverberations - Unsourced[edit]

This lacks source/reference: 2nd paragraph refers to Congress enacting National Emergencies Act and infers that this is a direct result of Watergate. Upon some searching, I found the full text of the National Emergencies Act, and indeed, in the short Introduction section (I'm so glad!), they state,

"The Vietnam War and the abuses known collectively as "Watergate*' have led Congress to assume a more prominent role, most notably in foreign policy and the budgetary process...The National Emergencies Act is consistent with these efforts to make the Executive accountable for his actions and to restore Congress as an equal partner in the government."

Include the link and/or edit the 2 sentences? Thanks --Springwoman (talk) 14:09, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Republican Headline in main section[edit]

In the main first section of the article, the text reads, "...and the resignation of Republican Richard Nixon, the President of the United States..." I felt that the Republican in front of Richard Nixon is irrelevant to the subject of the article. However, I felt that my opinion could be bias and wanted an outside opinion before I made the edit. Greatpopcorn (talk) 21:19, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Semiprotection due to vandalism[edit]

I have noticed many unconstructive edits coming from the Killeen Independent School District (IP 198.97.37.6) User talk:198.97.37.6 to this article. Maybe should it have semi-protection to prevent any further vandalism? Warrenkychu (talk) 13:40, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Add "international reactions" section?[edit]

NAC:There is support for and no opposition to adding the section. Section is currently named 'Reactions' but is really specifically international reactions. Closer will rename section. Robert McClenon (talk) 07:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Can we add reactions by the United Kingdom, China, Taiwan, Soviet Union, etc. toward the scandal? --George Ho (talk) 04:47, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

  • We can include them, only if they were made by the head of states and other prominent leaders of the country. Noteswork (talk) 12:06, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
The examples I come up are Mao Zedong (China) and Leonid Brezhnev (Soviet Union). From List of Prime Ministers of Queen Elizabeth II: Gough Whitlam (Australia), Pierre Trudeau (Canada), Michael Manley (Jamaica), Norman Kirk (New Zealand), and Edward Heath (United Kingdom). I'm trying to find their reactions, but they would come up short. --George Ho (talk) 00:39, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
The reactions of Brezhnev and Mao are probably the best to include due to the policy of Detente that Nixon started with China and the USSR. In addition, it would be interesting to include their reactions due to their positions as dictators of their respective countries. PointsofNoReturn (talk) 02:19, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
Found interview with Brezhnev and Mao's comments. I don't know how to implement it in prose format (except adding references), but you do? --George Ho (talk) 02:26, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
You can quote the best quote word for word and then cite the interview if you want to. You can do it manually or as a template (in this case, manual is probably better). PointsofNoReturn (talk) 03:25, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
  • I don't see why not. A section on International reactions will be a good addition. - Cwobeel (talk) 17:12, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Yes - "International reactions" would be useful. STSC (talk) 06:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Yes because Wikipedia is global and multiple notable opinions are always good. Mr. Guye (talk) 00:34, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Qualified yes. These "reactions" sections can turn into giant quote farms. I guess there's no harm in collecting a few, but don't go crazy and add a hundred quotations from random people. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 09:06, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Conditional Support per NinjaRobotPirate. James (TC) • 3:03 PM • 04:03, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Adding media portrayal and public reactions[edit]

Consensus appears to be in favour of adding this, as long as it is reliably sourced and notable. Number 57 23:47, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Shall worldwide analyses about media coverage of the Watergate be added? Also, I wonder if worldwide public reactions are worth adding. --George Ho (talk) 05:31, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Support/Yes Of course, if they are deemed notable. --Mr. Guye (talk) 00:07, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Comment This RfC would be valauble if it were more specific. What specific coverage is being referred to? Capitalismojo (talk) 00:43, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree. It seems obvious that reliably sourced material could be included, so I'm wondering what was the impetus for a Rfc. - Location (talk) 01:35, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Comment @George Ho:: Please clarify your request. Are you talking about international media coverage of the watergate scandal? Or are you talking about international analyses of the media coverage of the Watergate scandal? DNA Ligase IV (talk) 02:29, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes Mostly if they are notable enough. Noteswork (talk) 06:57, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Comment I agree with Location. It all depends on what kind of international reactions you're talking about. Russian conspiracy theories, French tabloids or Japanese comedians (for example) are irrelevant and don't warrant any inclusion. Similarly, any international sources that simply repeat or re-phrase what American sources have said are irrelevant. However, if there was fallout from the scandal in Canada or the UK, then yes, that deserves mention. MjolnirPants Tell me all about it. 13:49, 16 December 2014 (UTC)


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Watergate burglaries[edit]

For those following this page, please see Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard#Watergate burglaries. - Location (talk) 06:07, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge with List of Watergate conspirators[edit]

I don't know why this separate article just exists by itself. ηoian ‡orever ηew ‡rontiers 08:18, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Support - This list will never get larger and is more informative with the full context of the Watergate scandal.- MrX 15:16, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Actually I do think this should get bigger, because my understanding is that there are something like 20 more people who were indicted whose names I couldn't immediately find, but certainly there is an upper limit. Merging it with the main article is fine with me, the author of this one. I'm new here and I just wanted this list to exist, one way or another. Jcretan (talk) 05:21, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Support per MrX. Binksternet (talk) 06:56, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per MrX [[User:TheInsatiablist|TheInsatiablist] (talk) 13:32, 15 February 2015 (GMT)
I have struck this duplicate ivote from the ISP immediately noted below. - Location (talk) 02:54, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Further Support Per MrX — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.98.10 (talk) 13:33, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support merge or delete. In my opinion, it is a bit simplistic to label a bunch of people as Watergate conspirators. See, for example, L. Patrick Gray. - Location (talk) 21:43, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete the redundant article List of Watergate conspirators. This list ALREADY EXISTS here in the main article for Watergate Scandal. The list in the main article includes references while also excluding random unproven "conspirators", as mentioned earlier by User:Location. Jmg38 (talk) 01:48, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

I have redirected the article here per this edit. - Location (talk) 02:58, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

George McGovern[edit]

Since George McGovern was most affected by the [[Watergate scandal], his template should stay, as well as the link to it in said template.--24.186.96.236 (talk) 23:18, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

McGovern's role in the scandal was not really ongoing. I disagree that this WP:NAVBOX should be added to the article. Also, you didn't actually add a link to the navbox, you merely added words, and they were poorly formatted. Please do not re-add the navbox until you establish consensus on this talk page.- MrX 00:56, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Deep Throat[edit]

Some may see it as a minor point, but this article states that "Woodward and Bernstein had nicknamed..." Deep Throat, whereas the subsequent article cites Howard Simons as the originator of that nickname. Also, it's worth mentioning that Woodward's and Bernstein's book and its movie adaptation ("All the President's Men"), both clearly point to Simons as the coiner of that nickname. sugarfish (talk) 16:24, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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I would recommend locking this article[edit]

... as it is a common conspiracy topic for basket cases.

137.124.161.53 (talk) 19:21, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Misleading, unsourced claim should be changed.[edit]

In the section titled "Final investigations and resignation", it states in the second-to-last paragraph: "The tape, which was referred to as a "smoking gun" by Barber Conable, proved that Nixon had been involved in the cover-up from the beginning." But above, the only thing described "Recorded only a few days after the break-in, it documented the initial stages of the cover-up: it revealed Nixon, Swingle, and Haldeman meeting in the Oval Office and formulating a plan to block investigations by having the CIA falsely claim to the FBI that national security was involved." I looked into this article because of last week's CBS Sunday Morning show, which had a montage of video about "lies", showing Nixon saying that he hadn't known of the Watergate breakin before it happened. (Thus, implying that Nixon was lying.) Nixon may have been literally telling the truth, that he didn't know of the breakin before it occurred. Yet the article now claims he was involved "from the beginning". Aside from not providing an actual source, it doesn't explain what "the beginning" actually means. The beginning of what? The planning for the burglary? The approval for the burglary? The burglary itself? The cover-up? Evidently, this article is subject to some POV problems. Let's not use an open-ended and undefined claim, "from the beginning" unless there's a source and definition. 174.25.12.120 (talk) 07:01, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

The article is clearly referring to the cover-up; no-one seriously believes Nixon ordered the break-in.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 07:05, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Spoken Article in progress[edit]

Good afternoon! A note to the users/editors: I will be working on fulfilling the request for a Spoken Article version of this topic. I hope to have the Spoken Article completed and submitted within two weeks, projecting a submission date of September 12, 2016. Sincerely, MirrorSpock — Preceding unsigned comment added by MirrorSpock (talkcontribs) 18:12, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

New information on the CIA's role in Watergate[edit]

Courtesy Judicial Watch and Fox News.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 22:53, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

"Reflections" section?[edit]

What's this "Reflection on Watergate and Nixon's Intentions" section towards the bottom? It has no citations and feels like the straight-up opinion of a single person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.126.66.250 (talk) 21:04, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Interpretation of events (non-encyclopedic) with obvious bias and no citations. I've removed it. WP:BOLD Neurophyre(talk) 09:49, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

Citation is invalid to the article[edit]

The citation, http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/06/woodward-and-bernstein-downplay-deep-throat-125950.html is invalid to the article. The article is not a neutral article to follow for the Watergate Scandal. The article is written about two reporter who supposedly downplayed FBI source, Mark Felts statement about the Watergate scandal. The article then goes on to say the Mark Felts was a key source to the details of the Watergate Scandal Cynthia Jackson 1824 23 January 2017.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cjackson2521 (talkcontribs) 00:25, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Generally, Politico meets the Wikipedia requirements for a Reliable Source (though personally sometimes I have doubts). In this particular case it comes down to how it's been used and for what. Most of the article just reports on the interview with Woodward and Bernstein, the two reporters who broke the story. Here it is being used to source the claim that Woodward and Bernstein got some of the info from Judy Miller, and as far as I'm aware that's not controversial. So the source here is basically fine.
The problem I see with that paragraph is that the source only works for the last, maybe last two, sentences. The first two sentences should have a separate, additional, source verifying the info in them.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:17, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

link no longer working[edit]

The link,http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/02/14/v-fullstory/2639954/the-profound-lies-of-deep-throat.html, is no longer working. Cynthia Jackson 1839 23 January 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cjackson2521 (talkcontribs) 00:39, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

There's a version of the same op-ed here. I'll replace the link.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:11, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

"-gate"[edit]

The articles says the -gate suffix has been frequently applied to other political scandals "in the United States". But it certainly isn't just the United States - for instance, the recent uproar over French presidential candidate François Fillon's alleged large payments to his wife Penelope for work she didn't in fact do is already being referred to as "Penelopegate". The Wikipedia article "List of scandals with -gate suffix" lists examples from as far afield as Israel, the UK, South Korea, New Zealand and Pakistan, and the suffix evidently isn't only used in English.213.127.210.95 (talk) 13:22, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

False and undocumented statements[edit]

The following statement from the article is sheer fiction:

In May, McCord assigned former FBI agent Alfred C. Baldwin III to carry out the wiretapping and monitor the telephone conversations afterward.

Baldwin had absolutely no skills or experience whatsoever to "carry out the wiretapping." No one in all of Watergate, including the FBI, ever suggested he did. James McCord swore under oath, and wrote in his autobiography, that he, and only he, installed any bugs or wiretapping. (That is not a stipulation that he did.) There is no evidence or testimony anywhere in the record that Baldwin was assigned to "carry out the wiretapping."

This section also is fiction, being perpetrated by using passive voice, using inadequate sources, and ignoring vital FBI reports that completely contradicts it:

"Two phones inside the offices of the DNC headquarters were said to have been wiretapped.[19] One was the phone of Robert Spencer Oliver, who at the time was working as the executive director of the Association of State Democratic Chairmen, and the other was the phone of DNC secretary Larry O'Brien.[citation needed] The FBI found no evidence that O'Brien's phone was bugged.[20] However, it was determined that an effective listening device had been installed in Oliver's phone.[21]
Despite the success in installing the listening devices, the Committee agents soon determined that they needed to be repaired.[21] They planned a second "burglary" in order to take care of this.[21]"

It's hard to know where to start. "Were said" by whom "to have been wiretapped"? You keep citing a forum that happens to contain all kinds of false claims, but there were TWO sweeps of DNC headquarters at relevant times by professionals—including the phone company that had installed the phones, and the FBI laboratory—and BOTH found that there were no bugs in any of the phones at relevant times. This is a matter of FBI record, and I have copies of the reports, which are also on the FBI Watergate site.

And "it was determined" by WHOM that "an effective listening device had been installed in Oliver's phone"? The alleged bug in O'Brien's phone wasn't "discovered" until months after the fact, in September 1972, by which time the entire scene had been hopelessly compromised, and any number of people could have planted it to be "found" long after the fact, when it had no relevance to there ever having been any bugs planted to begin with.

Also, about this claim: "One was the phone of Robert Spencer Oliver, who at the time was working as the executive director of the Association of State Democratic Chairmen, and the other was the phone of DNC secretary Larry O'Brien." Just more fiction. It completely contradicts the sworn testimony and autobiographies of two of the main perps, Liddy and McCord. I don't know how anybody could have written this while patently being so ill-informed or simply uninformed.

I hope somebody will get busy and write some well-sourced and supported facts, rather than the fictions that's here now. If not, I will. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Celestia Jung (talkcontribs) 18:09, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

WP:GOFORIT -Location (talk) 00:07, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Various discussions at WP:RSN have said that Spartacus is not a reliable source, so I have removed those citations and tagged with {{citation needed}}. You won't get any arguments from me about the state of this article, so feel free to jump in and remove and/or edit that material... or anything else that you think needs to be addressed. -Location (talk) 00:17, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. I think that removing the Spartacus links served a good purpose. I can, and will, supply some authoritative and valid citations, and accurately stated facts from them. I have quite a stack of the FBI 302s from Watergate, and all the Watergate hearing transcripts, etc. It will take me a few days to compile the information for posting. I'm new to this, but will learn the ropes. Sorry for overlooking to sign earlier. Celestia Jung (talk) 18:06, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
I have made numerous edits to the first section, renaming it and rewriting much of it to reflect accurate and verifiable facts. In doing so, I added 26 new references, including Congressional documents and FBI reports. I also added many citations to some of those sources where the previous content had a lot of "citation needed" codes. I have made every good faith effort to make this a comprehensive and informative article in accordance with Wikipedia policies. A great deal of work has gone into this edit and finding reputable sources. Please consider carefully before undoing this work. Thanks.Celestia Jung (talk) 21:33, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
@Celestia Jung: I didn't read it carefully yet, but I skimmed through it. As far as I can tell, it is a good edit. —usernamekiran(talk) 22:11, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. A lot of research and work went into it, and there is only so much time I can devote to it, but I hope to be able to enhance some of the other sections with solid citations, many of them directly from the FBI's Watergate files.Celestia Jung (talk) 15:44, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory content[edit]

Can someone please review the edits added by User:Celestia Jung between May 12 and 15? The contributions seem to be mostly or entirely sourced to Watergate: The Hoax, a poorly referenced book which advances a Scientologist conspiracy theory that Watergate was a CIA operation to cover up an assassination attempt on L. Ron Hubbard. 2601:645:8200:B33A:488D:1C18:FF3A:E63B (talk) 05:09, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

"Poorly referenced"? You obviously don't have or haven't read the book. It is 600 pages long with 495 citations, many of them the original FBI documents, many of them ones that never have been published, analyzed, or cited in any other work on Watergate. Also, your allegation that my edits were "mostly or entirely" sourced from that book is false on its face. I cited at least 26 different sources in my edits, including Hougan's "Secret Agenda," quotations from actual Watergate legal proceedings and Congressional hearings, and quite a few of the original FBI reports. As for your "conspiracy theory" allegations, there is not a single word of any "conspiracy theory" in my edits. They contain solid, irrefutable facts, solidly sourced. My edits also don't contain a single word about any "Scientologist" connection, so it sounds like you're simply trying to foment a biased attack based on—well, based on nothing at all. Your comment is baseless and frivolous, and antipathetic to the intent of Talk pages. If you have a valid complaint about the content, then please refer specifically to which stated fact you challenge, and give a sound, rational reason for challenging it.Celestia Jung (talk) 17:42, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
EDITED TO ADD: By the way, the entire government case, in court and Congress, was never anything but an elaborate "conspiracy theory." If you have a non-conspiracy theory of Watergate, how about you present it for all of us? I sure would like to see it. Otherwise, it isn't the fact of "conspiracy theory " you object to; you just don't want anything exposed or documented that might in any way damage your own "conspiracy theory."Celestia Jung (talk) 17:53, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Right. I see you also referenced the equally dubious Secret Agenda, as well as several original documents. My concern is that you have inserted a great deal of heterodox analysis without flagging it as such, possibly including original research. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to sort through it all at the moment, hence my plea for someone else to review it. I suppose I'll get around to it eventually. 12.12.163.81 (talk) 20:08, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, Ashton Gray and Jim Hougan are definitely not WP:RELIABLE SOURCES. On that alone those edits should be reverted entirely. This requires many more eyes than I have, so I've posted a notice at WP:FTN. -Location (talk) 22:57, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Saw this on FNB. Manually reverted new additions that added info based on Fringe or Primary sources. There may be usable material that I removed, if so, it's still in the article history. Geogene (talk) 03:03, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Those of you who have contributed to this "reversion" are not gatekeepers of truth or fact; you are the most base vandals of knowledge. In a cavalier sweep, you have wiped out of existence inarguable, well-documented, incontrovertible facts, and replaced them with your own reprehensible brand of pure fantasy, which you are knowingly, willfully foisting off on the world at large as "truth." It is pure fiction, and you peddle it as fact. You are beneath contempt. You are beneath snake-oil salesmen. You are self-anointed, arrogant, disdainful High Priests of your own pet theories and delusions, which you shove down the throats of the rest of the world in unspeakable, haughty totalitarianism—claiming, of course, the "moral high ground."
You believe in nonexistent "bugs" that the FBI proved conclusively never were installed in DNC headquarters. So you erase out of existence every documented FACT that proves that your delusional beliefs are as insane as belief in gryphons or unicorns, and shove your "religion" of Watergate down the throats of the rest of the world, as though it's your Eucharist. Not ONE of you can document the existence, ever, of a single working bug planted in DNC headquarters. No, you can't, any more than you can document the unicorn in your back yard or your stigmata.
You believe in nonexistent "logs" by Baldwin that never existed in the real world. You cannot document the existence, ever, of even one such log—just as not one of you can document the Virgin Mary or Tinkerbell coming and standing at the foot of your bed. But you push this swill off on the world, because it's your religion, and you are the High Priests of sheer fiction.
You cannot document the existence, ever, of any "alarm" on the door of the Continental Room of the Watergate, because one never existed. It is sheer mythology—yet your ENTIRE BELIEF in the "official story" of Watergate hinges ENTIRELY on blind-faith belief that there WAS an alarm, that there HAD TO BE an alarm where none existed. Why? Because all of the disciples of your mad-dog religion, all of your so-called "reliable sources," have TOLD you that there had to be an alarm there, otherwise the burglars would have broken in on Friday, 26 May 1972—even though the FBI PROVED that Alfred Baldwin was 300 miles away that night, so could not possibly have participated in the lying FICTION that he foisted off on Congress and the world. Oh, but you lap up the sewage spilled in gallons by Baldwin as though it were the blood of one of your saints, because without his lies—which have been proved conclusively as lies—your entire mythology that you reign as High Priests over goes up in smoke. And that would be a supreme waste of perfectly good smoke.
You sate yourselves like vampires on "reliable sources" like the L.A. Times, who published Baldwin's original scandalous lies that he had driven back to D.C. on Thursday, 25 May. Have you ever bothered to check your so-called "reliable source"? Well, HAVE YOU? No, you haven't, because you cling like blithering psychos to your Watergate religion—which is sheer fantasy—and you make sure that all heretics speaking actual facts are excommunicated, banished, silenced. If you had ever bothered to check your "reliable source," the L.A. Times, you would have learned that the FBI proved conclusively that Baldwin's car was STILL IN SERVICE AT BRANHAVEN CHRYSLER-PLYMOUTH, just outside of New Haven, Connecticut all day on 25 May. Did you bother to check? No, you didn't, did you? Ashton Gray did. His book is the first and only book in the annals of all the millions of gallons of ink to find that in the FBI files and reveal the truth to the world. That's exactly why Baldwin had to change his story in Congress, moving the date of his return to Washington to the next day, 26 May. The only problem is that the FBI also discovered that he was still in Connecticut on THAT day, too. And the ONE AND ONLY SOURCE IN THE HISTORY OF WATERGATE COVERAGE who ever found that out was Ashton Gray. And you call his book "weird"? You have the reprehensible gall to call Gray "unreliable" as a source?
Well, of course you do. You are the High Priests of Lies, Mythology, Fiction, and Fantasy Posing as "Fact." Anything or anyone challenging your religious fanaticism with actual FACTS has to be pilloried, branded as a heretic, and burned at the stake—fed with the flames of your oh-so-righteous book burning.
You are worse than any vandals who ever trampled truth into the ground. You are worse than those who sacked and destroyed the Library of Alexandria. You poison the very groundwater of mankind's knowledge with your revolting, autocratic, tyrannical priesthood of arrogance and disdain.
The saddest part, though, is that you believe in fairy tales, and don't even know it. That kind of ignorance is its own reward.Celestia Jung (talk) 06:31, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Talk pages are for rational discussions about how to improve articles. There are plenty of other venues for airing incoherent rants; please take yours to one of those. DoctorJoeE review transgressions/talk to me! 11:43, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, looking over some of the terminology used in the above post compared with what appears in the Spartacus/Education Forum, I think we've got Ashton Gray attempting to edit this article. -Location (talk) 16:12, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Notice regarding "notice board"[edit]

The article is currently being discussed at Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Watergate_scandal. —usernamekiran(talk) 23:08, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Vague description of Supreme Court decision[edit]

The opening session has this sentence: After a series of court battles, the U.S. Supreme Court unanimously ruled that the president was obliged to release the tapes to government investigators... This sentence has no citation, and no mention of the name of the court case, making it hard to track down. Could somebody clarify this? —MiguelMunoz (talk) 22:39, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

I found that the material was added with this edit ten years ago yesterday. The editor who added the material did tag his own edit for requiring a citation, but he later removed the tag after adding citations for the sentence that followed. Things have changed a far amount since then and it appears that the first two citations in the sentence that follow do back-up the material in the sentence you have quoted. The name of the case is mentioned in the first of those two citations: [1]. -Location (talk) 23:35, 20 July 2017 (UTC)