Talk:White Tower (Tower of London)
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
The White Tower has no significance at and is merely a figment of the human imagination, although it may be seen with the naked eye it is just a myth of what actually was and what may or may not be real. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pudge0426 (talk • contribs) 20:17, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
This text was removed from the article with the comment "rm tangential material riddled with inaccuracies and misunderstandings"
In the 12th century, King Richard the Lionheart enclosed the White Tower with a curtain wall, and had a moat dug around it filled with water from the River Thames. The works were considered inadequate by the reign of Henry III. He left Richard's walls as an enceinte and constructed an new outer ring of curtain walls protected by large bastions and a much deeper moat which replaced the former inadequate one that had failed to flood.
- Richard did not build the stone curtain wall, it was William Longchamp during Richard's reign. Longchamp was disliked and the citizens of London celebrated set backs during building.
- The implication of the first sentence is that before Richard's reign the White Tower was unenclosed. This was of course not the case.
- It was stated that the moat was filled with water from the Thames, but two sentences later it is stated that this early moat had failed to flood. Which is it?
- Enceinte is jargon that most readers will not understand. Some terms are inescapable, and I try to introduce terms such as "ward" into articles in a context which will explain them to the reader as these are terms which they are likely to encounter in other castle-related texts. It is quite possible to explain what happened without using "enceinte", especially when Wikipedia's article is referenced to the Encyclopaedia Britannica.
- This demonstrates the importance of using top-quality sources rather than those which mention the Tower tangentially. Small inaccuracies may be acceptable when the mistake is not the subject of the article, but not here. There is information here which is not directly about the White Tower. By all means, it can provide context by the quality of information is poor. Nev1 (talk) 11:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
The wording above was a replacement put in place by me for the previous wording.
In the 12th century, King Richard the Lionheart enclosed the White Tower with a curtain wall and had a moat dug around it filled with water from the River Thames. The moat was not successful until Henry III, in the 13th century, employed a Dutch moat-building technique. Henry refurnished the Chapel and had the exterior of the building whitewashed in 1240, hence its name.
"In the 12th Century during the reign of Richard I" should cover the point. As for the implication that can be fixed by adding the word "new". (Although the sources says "This tower and the contemporary curtain wall running east from it, was originally built along the waterfront of the Thames. It possibly sits on and replaces the late Roman riverside wall, but all the visible masonry, including that uncovered in the magnificent plinth, is clearly late 12th century in date." and does not explicitly say that there was an earlier wall, although I agree it would be very unlikely that there would not have been a ward around the keep enclosed with a perimeter defence). "In the 12th Century during the reign of Richard I the White Tower was enclosed with a new curtain wall". I'm not much fussed about the sentence on the moat. As you can see the contradiction exists because I chose not to remove the previous sentence but added a sourced new sentence to replace the bit about Dutch Engineers (they may well have done it but not in the sources I found). The older moat would have had to go anyway because the new outer walls would have enclosed it/sat on top of it.
So perhaps the first sentence can read:
- "In the 12th Century during the reign of Richard I the White Tower was enclosed with a new curtain wall and ditch (that failed to fill with water from the Thames as intended).
The advantage of links is that if someone does not know what an "enceinte" is they can follow the link, and then they have learnt something. You state it is jargon but so is the word "bastion(s)" so were does one draw the line? It seems to me that if someone is interested in castles then they will be interested in knowing terms like enceinte and bastion, bailey etc. The second and third sentences can then read:
- "The works were considered inadequate by the reign of Henry III. He left Richard's walls as an enceinte and constructed an new outer ring of curtain walls protected by large bastions and a much deeper ditch that was filled with water creating a moat".
- It was shit and no amount of lawyering will change that. Give me a day or two and I'll either redraft the article completely or redirect it to the Tower of London article which deals with the White Tower much more effectively. I contemplated doing that a year ago but had hoped someone would come along and improve this article. Sadly that has not happened. Nev1 (talk) 23:38, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
The White Tower is a central tower, the old keep, at the Tower of London.
A tower? To me it seems a building with four towers. It isn't even claimed that White Tower would be just one of the four towers in the building. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 19:06, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
- See http://books.google.com/books?id=jeeGAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT3633#v=onepage&q&f=false WikiParker (talk) 21:22, 5 March 2014 (UTC)