Talk:Whonix

Computing: Networking / Software / Security / Free and open-source software Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Computing, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of computers, computing, and information technology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ComputingWikipedia:WikiProject ComputingTemplate:WikiProject ComputingComputing articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

This article is supported by Networking task force (assessed as Low-importance).

This article is supported by WikiProject Software (assessed as Low-importance).

This article is supported by WikiProject Computer Security (assessed as High-importance).

This article is supported by Free and open-source software (assessed as Low-importance).

Things you can help WikiProject Computer Security with:

Article alerts will be generated shortly by AAlertBot. Please allow some days for processing. More information...

Review importance and quality of existing articles
Identify categories related to Computer Security
Tag related articles
Identify articles for creation (see also: Article requests)
Identify articles for improvement
Create the Project Navigation Box including lists of adopted articles, requested articles, reviewed articles, etc.
Find editors who have shown interest in this subject and ask them to take a look here.

Cryptography: Computer science Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cryptography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Cryptography on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CryptographyWikipedia:WikiProject CryptographyTemplate:WikiProject CryptographyCryptography articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Computer science (assessed as Mid-importance).

Software: Computing Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Software, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of software on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SoftwareWikipedia:WikiProject SoftwareTemplate:WikiProject Softwaresoftware articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Computing.

Internet Low‑importance

	Internet portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Internet, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Internet on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.InternetWikipedia:WikiProject InternetTemplate:WikiProject InternetInternet articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Mass surveillance Low‑importance

	Whonix is within the scope of WikiProject Mass surveillance, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of mass surveillance and mass surveillance-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, or contribute to the discussion.Mass surveillanceWikipedia:WikiProject Mass surveillanceTemplate:WikiProject Mass surveillanceMass surveillance articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Feedback by Whonix forum

Thank you for creating this page! Feedback by Whonix forum: https://forums.whonix.org/t/wikipedia-page-corrections/484 Adrelanos (talk) 15:53, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Qubes OS ?

Shouldn't/couldn't the article be updated to reflect the (very good) new configuration option of running Whonix as a template in Qubes OS ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.74.136.83 (talk) 23:16, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Probably should, they seem to be migrating entirely to Qubes. 216.137.192.89 (talk) 08:11, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not migrating entirely to Qubes. Adrelanos (talk) 15:54, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Qubes OS + addition of new categories

Hello everybody,

Even though I am new to Wikipedia, I am a Whonix and Qubes OS User and profoundly admire Adrelanos' high-quality work and constant efforts for the project.

I would like to make my small contribution by adding more information and attempting to improve the page, with the final goal of (ideally) having the template messages removed.

If someone has any feedback on which categories could be improved I would be more than glad to hear them, my initial thoughts would be (in random order):

Differences between the standalone and the Qubes OS versions (for instance at the time of writing kloak is available only on the non-Qubes-Whonix, just like other features are available only on the Qubes version)
The scope only shows a list of software which is either already included or can be installed separately. I would recommend putting them separately and expanding on what the actual purpose of the distro is.
Expansion of release versions like in the Signal Wikipedia page from for instance "Release 16" to "VirtualBox 16.0.4.2" and with different categories for the many virtualization platforms.
Split the design section into more detailed sub-categories.

I will start with the changes hopefully by the end of the week, very curious to know what you think.

IrrationalBeing (talk) 22:00, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

After looking at what other projects are doing (specifically Debian and Ubuntu), I think I will work towards the addition of the following categories, alongside the improvement of the current page:

History
Variants/Distributions
Features (should be under variants, as not all the features of standalone Whonix are not available on Qubes OS Whonix and vice versa)
Packages
Hardware
Developers

IrrationalBeing (talk) 22:13, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rationale behind my edits

Removed reference to TorBOX from intro

While the project who later grew into what is now known as Whonix was once called TorBOX^[1], it feels confusing: there is currently another project called TorBox which has nothing to do with Whonix.^[2]^[3]

Changed "Debian-based" to "Kicksecure-based"

While Whonix is technically based on Debian, it would be more precise to specify the usage of Kicksecure (which is a derivative of Debian)^[4]. Unfortunately at the time of writing no Kicksecure Wikipedia page exists (understandable since it is still in pre-release, no ISO exists^[5] and the website https://www.kicksecure.com went public only in November 2021^[6])

I pondered this a while and checked for similar situations on other Wikipedia articles. The Pop!_OS GNU/Linux distribution is based on Ubuntu and currently states so in the article, but doesn't directly refer its consequent reliance on Debian. Ubuntu is based on Debian and credits the project accordingly.

On the other hand, this might feel like cherry-picking: I am not aware of many distributions which are based on a project which is subsequently based on another. Is the case of Fedora and Red Hat Enterprise Linux the same?

There are plenty. See Linux Mint for instance, or Elementary. --MichielN (talk) 21:24, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To conclude, the relationship between Kickstarter and Debian is further clarified into the Design, so it feels to me more natural to state so at the page's beginning.

I would prefer to NOT put it in the lead section, exactly because Kicksecure does not yet have its own article. Without knowing what Kicksecure is and without a way to look it up on Wikipedia mentioning it does not provide useful information. Whether the lead should mention Debian instead I don't know. Does it have to have its origin stated? If so, then Debian, I would say. --MichielN (talk) 21:24, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Removed link to the "Linux" (Kernel) page

Before the edit "Linux" pointed to the Linux kernel page and "distribution" pointed to Linux distribution. It's a very small change indeed, but it is meant to follow what other pages are doing (Debian, Ubuntu, Tails, Fedora...)

IrrationalBeing (talk) 19:54, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Removed first reference (GitHub) and added Repository to InfoBox

I don't think it's necessary to put a reference after the very first word. If anything it belongs in the InfoBox. Also, Whonix moved from GitHub to GitLab in June 2020.^[7]

Inserted pronunciation

This page shows how Whonix is pronounced in respelling. The IPA version is not provided. Since I have no experience with it, I relied on an online phonetic transcriber. I would be very glad if someone could double check its correctness.

I changed the 'u' to 'u:' and removed the space. --MichielN (talk) 21:24, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Added source to the project goals

I am aware this is a link to the project itself, but I would argue there is no better source than the main website to show its goals.

Removed "security" from the goals and changed the claim of being "security focused" to "security hardened"

While Whonix describe itself as hardened, nowhere (to the best of my abilities) have I found any mention of it being a "security focused" distribution (focusing itself on privacy and anonymity). Qubes OS does claim to be "reasonably secure"^[8]. I removed the link to the Wikipedia Security-focused operating system because of this very reason, even though Whonix is still listed there.

Changed "running Debian Linux" to "running Debian GNU/Linux"

Please note that I am not trying to start a controversy by doing this. Since Kicksecure is based on Debian, I am matching what the latter shows on its own page.

Mention the existence of Wikis for Whonix and Kicksecure

Arch Linux, who is renowned for having a high-quality documentation^[9]^[10]^[11] mentions that. Since Whonix does also have extensive documentation, I think it is useful to include it.

Lastly, I would have liked to update the image in the Infobox to the new one by the Whonix Project which can be found here. However, I haven't found any information about the license aside from this notice. Also, due to my account being created very recently, I am not sure whether I am even allowed to load new files on Wikimedia Commons.

IrrationalBeing (talk) 22:02, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Initial release changed, even if it's probably incorrect (see talk page)

~~Previously, the declared initial release (in the Infobox) was the 2012-02-29. However, I pushed the date further to 2012-09-28. There are two reasons for that:~~

To the best of my abilities I have found nowhere a reference to that specific date on February and the Wikipedia page bears no sources.

While technically the project started back in January 2012^[12], it was still under the name of TorBOX. The first publicly released version of Whonix was 0.4.4^[13] and while the date mentioned refers to an announcement developer Adrelanos made, it is not the release date.
There are some discrepancies about the date. The first (unreleased) version of Whonix was 0.3.0, which was still based on Ubuntu.^[14] The Changelog shows that the release 0.2.1 (2012-07-16) was already called Whonix^[15], while another page specifies the same release as still being TorBOX^[16]. Also, version 0.4.5 of Whonix was released the 2012-09-10^[17], therefore version 0.4.4 has to be logically released before that date.
In short, as of now I am unable to pinpoint the exact date. There is also another question which stands out:
Should the release date reflect the release of TorBOX (which would be the 2012-01-11^[18]) or from the first iteration with the new name Whonix?

~~I will attempt to contact Adrelanos and ask about this.~~

EDIT 2022-03-21: reverted, see below.

Created new heading about the project's history and first draft

Self-explaining.

IrrationalBeing (talk) 18:53, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted release date to the 2012-02-29, found the reference

The reference is in the changelog: https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Dev/Old_Changelog#older Also, the Whonix project self described the initial release at that date: https://web.archive.org/web/20131212025527/https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Main_Page

Added Onion link to Infobox

Will try to get it whitelisted following this procedure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist

If successful, I will update the link with a whitelist exemption.

IrrationalBeing (talk) 22:30, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I wish you would add secondary sources. Drmies (talk) 22:32, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Drmies,

While I agree with you, I am having difficulties finding reliable sources outside of the project itself. I believe most of the changes I have made as of now are inherently dependent on primary sources, since most articles I have found online either focus on the installation, basic usage information or GitHub pages about hardening.

My priority is to focus on improving the article filling the blank spots with the goal of solving the first issue raised on the template (This article contains content that is written like an advertisement.). Afterwards, I will attempt to improve and add more references, also to have a chance to revisit the page and hopefully to give more time for resources to be written about the topic.

Help in this matter is most welcome.

Kind regards, IrrationalBeing (talk) 13:50, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Added references to onion links in the Infobox

Self-explaining. I also requested the whitelisting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist#Link_requested_to_be_whitelisted:_dds6qkxpwdeubwucdiaord2xgbbeyds25rbsgr73tbfpqpt4a6vjwsyd.onion

IrrationalBeing (talk) 13:34, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://gitlab.torproject.org/legacy/trac/-/wikis/doc/TorBOX

[2] ttps://www.torbox.ch/?page_id=112#what-are-the-main-differences-between-torbox-and-whonix

[3] ttps://github.com/radio24/TorBox

[4] ttps://www.kicksecure.com/wiki/Main_Page#Hardening_by_Default

[5] ttps://www.kicksecure.com/wiki/Download

[6] ttps://www.kicksecure.com/wiki/Pre-release

[7] ttps://forums.whonix.org/t/whonix-moving-from-github-to-gitlab/9676

[8] ttps://www.qubes-os.org/

[9] ttps://www.theregister.com/2022/03/15/arch_linux_20/

[10] ttps://dengenchronicles.com/is-arch-linux-better-than-linux-mint/#Is_Arch_Linux_better_than_Linux_Mint

[11] ttps://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-arch-linux/

[12] ttps://www.whonix.org/wiki/History#Footnotes

[13] ttps://www.whonix.org/wiki/Old_Project_Versions_and_News#Whonix_%E2%84%A2_0.4.4_(old,_released)

[14] ttps://www.whonix.org/wiki/Old_Project_Versions_and_News#Whonix_%E2%84%A2_0.3.0_(never_released)

[15] ttps://www.whonix.org/wiki/Dev/Old_Changelog#Whonix_%E2%84%A2_0.2.1_Changelog

[16] ttps://www.whonix.org/wiki/Old_Project_Versions_and_News#TorBOX_0.2.1_(old,_released)

[17] ttps://www.whonix.org/wiki/Old_Project_Versions_and_News#Whonix_%E2%84%A2_0.4.5_(old,_released)

[18] ttps://www.whonix.org/wiki/Old_Project_Versions_and_News#Old_News

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]

[8]

[9]

[10]

[11]

[12]

[13]

[14]

[15]

[16]

[17]

[18]