Talk:William H. Natcher Parkway

Interstate 67?

I know the dubious information was removed, but I just found [1] article about a study on I-67. Now, I don't know if any of the Kentucky parkways are intended for the possible road, but I just wanted to let you know. Allen (talk) 02:49, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

It wasn't dubious: it was a copyright violation. That link comes up: "Page Cannot Be Found". Imzadi 1979 → 03:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Conflict: South end move

The exit guide section reflects the extension to US-231 but all other mentions of the south end identify it at I-65. Mapsax (talk) 02:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't see what's contradicting in the article. The infobox, the exit list and the text of the lead (note that there isn't a RD section) all state it ends at US 231 in Owensboro, KY, which is also what Google Maps and my paper KTC map both indicate. Imzadi 1979 → 20:52, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

First sentence, third paragraph: "The parkway begins at an interchange with Interstate 65 (I-65, exit 20) just south of Bowling Green." Infobox: "South end: {65 shield} I-65 in Bowling Green" Mapsax (talk) 01:16, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Since Google Maps confirms it, I just fixed it in 30 seconds. Imzadi 1979 → 01:36, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Requested move 7 March 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. Those who wish for a split, please see {{split}}, those who want to gain further consensus on a move, please feel free to renominate to gather more input. Also, nominator has withdrawn and there are no support !votes. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 18:34, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

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William H. Natcher Parkway → Interstate 165 (Kentucky) – The page Interstate 165 (Kentucky) currently exists as a redirect page, and according to the source, 72 miles of the Natcher Parkway (that's how long the entire Natcher is) are being signposted as I-165.

Needforspeed888 (talk) 19:13, 7 March 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. SITH (talk) 21:27, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

• Additional source: Winitz, Max (2019-03-06). "William H. Natcher Parkway now officially Interstate 165". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Realkyhick (talk • contribs) 20:33, 7 March 7 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose—the southern 2.5 miles between I-65 and US 231 will not be part of I-165; rather the unsigned KY 9007 designation will be signed there. So because this isn't a 1:1 change, the page should not be moved. Additionally, various changes made in the last 24 hours need to be either reverted or revised to reflect these facts. Imzadi 1979 → 00:41, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
  • How about we split the article: Interstate 165 (Kentucky) will cover the part signed as I-165, and William H. Natcher Parkway will cover the part not part of I-165. This would be similar to how Western Kentucky Parkway only deals with the section not part of I-69, and Interstate 69 in Kentucky covers the rest. Needforspeed888 (talk) 00:57, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Another point to note is that when 99 percent of a named highway has a signed route number (as is the case here), we tend to consider the short unsigned portion as a mere "ramp" onto the signed portion. For example, the southernmost one-mile section of the Adirondack Northway that's not part of I-87 is still covered under Interstate 87 (New York) regardless. Same thing with the unsigned northernmost 0.5 mile leg of the Jones Falls Expressway, covered in Interstate 83. I think the same scenario applies here. Needforspeed888 (talk) 01:17, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

The Natcher Parkway is going away. It will no longer exist. The 2.5 mile section of 9007 from 231 to I65 will only be signed as 9007 and is no longer a Kentucky Parkway nor Interstate. It's a state route, just like KY 3145, which is a interstate grade connector between US68 and I65 on the north side of Bowling Green. So essentially 9007 has been shortened to 2.5 miles, and the rest of what was 9007 is federal. KYTC confirms this. It would be improper to call any section of the freeway Natcher Parkway, simply because it technically doesn't exist anymore. The Natcher Expressway is essentially a nickname for the Interstate, like "MLK Expressway" in Louisville. Brownse10 (talk) 02:30, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I motion to split the Natcher Parkway page into two, with one being about KY 9007 (2.5 miles between 231 and I65) and the second new one about I165 (I65 to the northern terminus).Brownse10 (talk) 02:38, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

• I support your idea. Needforspeed888 (talk) 02:55, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I support. As said, the section south/east of I-65 is no longer the Natcher Parkway - it’s Route 9007. The remainder should be under that page as Route 9007. EBGamingWiki (talk) 14:54, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

• Just started the page Kentucky Route 9007. Needforspeed888 (talk) 15:21, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
  • The preferred move would be to create a new article for I-165 and then revising this article to reflect that the parkway name is being decommissioned. That means undoing the change to the exit list that removed the southernmost 2.5 miles, for instance. Additionally, the text needs to be copy edited to put it all into the past tense, and the history and future sections updated and merged into the history section. Any content that's copied to new articles has to be copied correctly in keeping with the legal requirements of the Creative Commons licenses used here. For more information, please see WP:Copying within Wikipedia. Imzadi 1979 → 17:06, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

As long as the new I-165 is largely similar to this page that sounds fine, let’s go ahead and clarify that the Natcher name is decommissioned.Brownse10 (talk) 19:22, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Could somebody please close this RM discussion since we've had this settled for over a week now? Needforspeed888 (talk) 15:52, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Rational plan for moving forward

After all is said an done, there should be three separate articles. We have no deadline on doing this, but hasty editing without good planning will make a mess of things. It's very much a mess right now. I'd rather give our readers a slightly dated perspective on the topic than the mess that was being made of the article.

The three articles are:

1. William H. Natcher Parkway, covering the history of the parkway from inception until the decommissioning of the parkway designation. This article would be written in the past tense after it is revised to reflect the decommissioning. In short, just update the current revision to move the future section into the history, add the changeover date in the infobox and flip all verbs into past tense.
2. Interstate 165 (Kentucky), covering the new designation with a summary of the pre-commissioning history of the predecessor parkway and excluding the information on the southernmost 2.5 miles that were excluded from the new designation.
3. Kentucky Route 9007, covering the newly signed/previously existing designation for the southernmost 2.5 miles.

Note: if the Natcher Parkway name is still being applied to the southernmost section, then nos. 1 and 3 above should be merged and the RD and exit list sections would be trimmed to reflect the truncated nature of the remaining parkway. Imzadi 1979 → 19:22, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

As an illustration, in Michigan, M-16 was redesignated in 1926 in full as US Highway 16. For that reason, M-16 is a redirect to US 16. In the 1950s and 1960s, US 16 was rebuilt as a freeway and partially redesignated as an Interstate. When that Interstate was initially finished in 1962, US 16 was decommissioned. Part of I-96 was later renumbered M-5. We have separate articles on US 16, I-96 and M-5, each placing their own histories in context by summarizing the predecessor history. That's the right way to handle this situation. If it were an exact renumber from the parkway to an Interstate, I'd say we just have one article like the M-16-to-US 16 context, but that doesn't apply here. Imzadi 1979 → 19:29, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good, the Natcher name is not being used anywhereBrownse10 (talk) 19:25, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

I support this. This would be kind of like how we have three articles for Pennyrile Parkway, Interstate 69 in Kentucky, and Interstate 169 (Kentucky). The latter two cover their current respective routes, and the Pennyrile article covers the decomissioned route. As for the Natcher, it sounds like the name is being retired on the southern portion in favor of Kentucky Route 9007. Needforspeed888 (talk) 19:29, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Everything looks in order, good work. I'll see about getting some new pictures up for the new pages (since I live next to it) and we can keep polishing up on some stuff. I changed the first sentence of the old Natcher page for clarification, see my note why. Brownse10 (talk) 21:57, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Good catch, I only said "decommissioned" because that's how Pennyrile Parkway worded it. You're right, I've always considered that to sound a little odd. I changed the Pennyrile lead to match your wording incidentally. Needforspeed888 (talk) 22:13, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Natcher name

Has the name really been retired? The RSs don't make that clear and the official 2020-21 map still shows the Natcher name to the right of the KY 9007 section. I also note that 9007 is still in green like the other parkways but so are KY 841 and part of KY 4 which aren't parkways so that's ambiguous (the green can refer to parkways or other fully controlled access non-Interstates). Mapsax (talk) 02:29, 13 December 2021 (UTC)