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What a Neglected Article

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When is the last time someone even cared about this page? Twelve's info is blank, while many characters don't have bios, just a link to their main page. Some one needs to help this article. The Red Guy (talk) 12:37, 20 December 2008

Merge discussions

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@Kung Fu Man: @Zxcvbnm: @Sergecross73: @GlatorNator: @Sennecaster: @QuicoleJR: @MoonJet: Same deal as Talk:List of Mortal Kombat characters#Merge discussions. Without commentary, mark into the below sections whether you support or oppose a character article's existence so we can get an idea of possible consensus on notability and deal with what may not be notable.

Blanka

List

Dee Jay

List
  • Support - This one was actually AFD'ed a couple years back. I think the arguments for keeping the article hold up. He's received a lot of academic coverage, thanks to being one of the first "black" characters in fighting games. MoonJet (talk) 21:35, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge - While I am sympathetic to the fact that he is a rare black character from the early days of fighting games, simple mentions of that still don't fall under SIGCOV. There seems to have been a "pat ourselves on the back and walk away" when a single sentence or two was found during the AfD, despite the article still having a dearth of substantive reception, my arguments during the AfD still stand and were backed up by many. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:32, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Found some sigcov of Dee Jay. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 19:46, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dhalsim

List

Elena

List

F.A.N.G.

List

Fei Long

List

Ibuki

List

Juri

List

Karin


Makoto

List


Sakura Kasugano


Seth

List

T. Hawk

List

Urien


Vega

List

Closed discussions as merged

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Charlie Nash


Oro

List

Rose


Closed discussions as kept

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Akuma

List

Balrog

List

Cammy

List

Chun-Li

List

Dan Hibiki

List

E. Honda

List

Guile

List

Ken Masters

List

Laura Matsuda

List

Ryu

List

M. Bison

List

R. Mika

List

Rufus

List

Sagat

List

Zangief

List


Discussion

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@GatorNator: Well, the reason I wanna have support is so that we also can quantify "oh like 10 people supported and one opposed." It's mainly just for convenience to know where we land. I still need to look into some of the articles, I mainly put a Support in ones where I know are notable. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 09:45, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm gonna boldly merge Makoto as the person who made the article, having not found good sources for her in a recent search. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 10:45, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your choice, Oro (Street Fighter) should probably be merge also. You should have closed the Mortal Kombat discussion since most of them are probably notable (anyway, I'm still 50/50 on Kenshi (Mortal Kombat)). GlatorNator (ᴛ) 10:57, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't looked into Oro, gonna look into him soon. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 11:02, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can probably go through and tidy up Rufus once I'm done with Sarah, I want to try and get her to C or GAN ready first. There's another paper I can cite in his article once I get access to it. I support just merging Oro and Makoto, most SF3 characters as a whole just fail notability.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:50, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I just added support votes on the ones are slam-dunk keeps for me. I may add explanation to some of them later. MoonJet (talk) 21:07, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I opted to speedily mark anything that has four open supports and no opposes as kept, as even if four people materialized to oppose, it would just be no consensus. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 22:57, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've started going through and cleaning out Niemti's garbage from some of the articles, specifically Balrog (Street Fighter), E. Honda, Vega (Street Fighter), and Zangief. Honda I *feel* like there are more references out there in magazines, but a huge problem I'm facing is that "Street Fighter" Honda in a search result turns up thousands of entries on IA due to the vehicle company. There are three papers that can be cited in that article however, and that last source was pretty big. This here may also be useful as a source across the board: it's in spanish, but they give detailed reactions on their favorite characters and favorite aspects, which should be citeable.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 06:10, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lmao. Despite being notable, look at Zangief current reception tho. I think WP:TNT might apply. GlatorNator (ᴛ) 07:46, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm actually hoping this gets people to actually do research. I doubt it though, wikipedia's lost so many editors. One thing that might help is to proliferate reception from Den of Geek's ranking across everything (apparently except Zangief because they...didn't really say much there out of all the characters?). Also this is probably going to be a surprise Glator (it was for me), but while looking up this stuff...I'm finding sources for Sodom. I hate to say it but he might be barely notable. Definitely nothing in scholar sadly, but still a lot of sites seem to like the weeb.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 07:53, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Work only on the articles that you're interested KFM. :) GlatorNator (ᴛ) 09:49, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway I think T. Hawk and Rose (Street Fighter) should be also boldly merge. Zero commentary. GlatorNator (ᴛ) 12:40, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I cleaned out T. Hawk, but in a quick google search I've found two sources of reception, one positive one negative, both discussing him, due to him being the first native american in a game like this apparently? Also I would hold off merging Zangief. Me cleaning out the dud sources is more meant to help folks, not try to get these killed.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 13:12, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kung Fu Man: @Zxcvbnm: @Sergecross73: @GlatorNator: @Sennecaster: @QuicoleJR: @MoonJet: Sorry for the mass ping, but went through and rebuilt the development section for E. Honda, but also rewrote his entire reception section. I feel this passes SIGCOV now especially with a whole book chapter dedicated to him and Zangief, but wanted to run it by the group also.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 19:10, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Article is looking much better than before, well done. Before it was cleaned up, I knew it will be notable. GlatorNator (ᴛ) 22:54, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well I cleaned out Ibuki and I'll be frank, the prognosis is really freaking bad. Even some of the magazine references were massive reaches. There's meat there...but just not a lot of people talking about it. Or making weird throwaway jokes about being horny for a schoolgirl.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Spent the day digging through sources, but Makoto's character reception has been fully redone and should pass notability. There are two papers too discussing her design and martial arts, but they're in spanish so harder to translate. But given the comments about her "overwhelming popularity", I figured there had to be something to her.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 02:37, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed you removed most of the reception sources on Charlie. I would like to note he was in AFD a couple years back with a consensus for a keep. I would also like to note that some of the sources listed in the AFD were not incorporated into the article (granted, some of them seemed to be routine announcements too). Since keeping the article is the current consensus, I think we should be searching if he has more good sources before agreeing to a merge. Great job on Makoto, by the way. MoonJet (talk) 04:39, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I'll take a gander at them later on, there's at least a few articles there to add some body to it, though I will admit Moon it may not be enough of a section even with that, that's part of the problem. The main problem with a lot of these is that so many are infested with references that either add nothing or just don't say what they claim to, which to be frank if we're going to fix up any of these, carving out the cancer so we can properly work on them is the best move to start on these. Ibuki's got me worried a bit because frankly there's just nothing there. Even the freaking Mary Sue article that gushed about Makoto barely spoke about her, speaking about all the other characters they discussed far more. I don't get it.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:54, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merged Charlie. What sources were there...just aren't saying anything. Even the Den of Geek massive article is just a character history for him and doesn't say or add anything outside of what other sources all joke: "Charlie Dies At The End". There's no meat on that bone for him as a character himself.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:55, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I know Kung Fu Man pinged me on 5/3 but sorry for my lack of input in the discussion. I admittedly don't know as much about SF as I do about MK, but for what it's worth I would have voted support on the articles voted as kept. I also didn't realize the vote had taken place back on 4/30. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 15:57, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just so you know, any articles closed as keep aren't official, it's mainly just to streamline things. You can add support or opposition to the kept or merged articles, and in fact it'd be helpful if only because it'd provide additional perspectives or strengthening of the (apparent) consensus. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 16:08, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I’ll do that. :) Unfortunately I had a rough weekend (Weds. and Thurs.) physically, so I didn’t get much done on here as a whole. I appreciate you folks seeking my input on these issues. sixtynine • whaddya want? • 20:27, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I didn't realize you weren't tagged into these until later, so it's all good beemer. I think with so many people pinged it slipped through so no offense meant.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:15, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/street-fighter-the-strange-history-of-vega/
  2. ^ https://www.google.com/books/edition/Spain_L%C3%BAdica/ln4tEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Vega

Ibuki Article?

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What happened to the standalone Ibuki article? It makes ZERO sense that Makoto, someone who hasn't appeared in any media without Ibuki also being present, has her own article but Ibuki doesn't get her own? Ibuki literally had her own game called Tamaya (look it up) and also Ibuki was one of four SF representatives in the card game Universus. 2001:579:8448:350:D9EE:E0E2:6CCA:160E (talk) 02:19, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Simply appearing in more works isn't enough to get an article. In attempting to make an Ibuki article, myself and another article couldn't come up with enough significant coverage of her. When we worked on Makoto's article, we didn't have that issue. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 03:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I remember seeing the article a while ago. There was quite a bit that wasn't mentioned that could have been. Like the aforementioned Tamaya, a game Capcom made due to the popularity of her SFV V-Trigger 1 where 4 Ibuki's try and steal bombs. And the aforementioned Universus crossover where she, Viper, Akuma and Bison represented the SF universe. Both are rarities as SF chars usually do not get their own games or often cross over without a certain guy wearing white or a certain overrated woman wearing blue being there. Ibuki also got spot 25 out of all SF characters when Capcom did a pole asking who they should make Funko Pop figures out of. Notably out pacing some like M. Bison. I will admit I can't do a whole article on her but I could provide information. 65.155.47.62 (talk) 04:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well that's the thing of it, none of that actually goes towards establishing notability. WP:N states that notability is achieved through significant commentary in secondary sources. Appearances in games or paid merchandise would not apply. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 04:35, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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