Template:Did you know nominations/Henry L. Reaves
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:28, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
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Henry L. Reaves[edit]
- ... that Henry L. Reaves rode with a land baron and engaged in open range cattle ranching on rangeland that became Disney World?
- ALT1:... that Henry L. Reaves engaged in open range cattle ranching with a land baron who later sold out to Disney World for little more than $100 an acre?
- ALT 2a: ...that Henry L. Reaves was an open range cattle rancher on land near what is now Disney World before serving in the Georgia House of Representatives for 38 years?
- ALT1:... that Henry L. Reaves engaged in open range cattle ranching with a land baron who later sold out to Disney World for little more than $100 an acre?
5x expanded by Gulbenk (talk). Self-nominated at 18:50, 2 January 2017 (UTC).
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
- Contains several sentences copied directly from sources and while they are set in italics, their use is neither necessary nor allowed as the information can be easily rewritten
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting: - Being a cattle raiser on land that was later Disney World might work but not as it currently stands. Also, he was a state congressman for 38 years, you might want to try to use that as well!
| QPQ: None required. |
Overall: 
Looks good otherwise but why isn't the article located at Henry Reaves? (btw, I've been out of the DYK game for a while so I apologize in advance for any mistakes I might have made). Regards SoWhy 21:33, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you for reviewing this nomination!
- I have paraphrased two of the three quotes you mentioned. The third has been modified. It is part of a eulogy. Would it not be appropriate to directly quote in this instance... if the article cites the speaker (a state senator)?
- I agree that the first hook could be seen as bland. But doesn't ATL1 hold some interest? ("land baron" + the insanely low price of the land sold to Disney)
- I was simply expanding an existing article, so I can't speak directly to the reason why the original editor chose Henry L. Reaves instead of Henry Reaves.
Gulbenk (talk) 15:08, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- A direct quote only makes sense when the quote is memorable in itself. "Ich bin ein Berliner!" is a good direct quote, "he did this and that" is not. As for the hooks, "sold out" carries negative connotations ("sell-out") and the rest is still not really catchy. How about
- ALT 2: ...that Henry L. Reaves was an open range cattle farmer on the Disney World land before serving in the Georgia House of Representatives for 38 years?
- Of course, I couldn't approve this suggestion myself. Regards SoWhy 19:42, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- A direct quote only makes sense when the quote is memorable in itself. "Ich bin ein Berliner!" is a good direct quote, "he did this and that" is not. As for the hooks, "sold out" carries negative connotations ("sell-out") and the rest is still not really catchy. How about
- The last quote has been eliminated. I appreciate the guidance on that, since I think I have been misusing quotes for some time...
- Can I suggest one small tweak to the hook? US Farmers and Ranchers Alliance says that "farmers" are folks who primarily raise crops, as well as hogs, dairy and poultry. While those who raise cattle or sheep are "ranchers".
Gulbenk (talk) 21:44, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Regarding ALT1 and the term sold out. It could be seen as a double entendre, a turn of phrase favored at DYK, I believe. The initial meaning simply refers to selling the land, and the second meaning you alluded to, meaning something akin to betrayal of the ranching tradition by "selling out" to the Mouse. Gulbenk (talk) 14:30, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
- I got that but I think it's misleading since most people will think of the second meaning. I'm happy you agree with my ALT2 suggestion, but as I said, since it was my suggestion, DYK review rules prevent me from approving it myself. Other than the hook, it looks clear, so...
Will a non-involved editor please approve ALT2? Also, I'd like a second opinion if we should move the article to Henry Reaves first. Regards SoWhy 18:08, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
- Length, Date, QPQ exempt, Copyvio check, all good. However, the cites are conflicting for the length of service in the GA legislature as one says 1962-2000 but his obit says he was elected in 1963. I also could not find in the cites where it says that the land he owned was eventually sold to Disney, the other family is mentioned extensively but not Reaves. Also, I would say leave it at Henry L. Reaves as most of the sources refer to him as such or fully spell out his middle name. Mifter (talk) 20:42, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mifter, thank you for taking up this task. I think that the conflicts, related to dates of service have to do with the difference between the date one is elected and when one actually takes office. The full two year terms always begin in an odd numbered year. I believe that Reaves was elected in November 1962, and took office in January 1963. Likewise, even though he announced his retirement (and received that Resolution from the Legislature) at the end of the 2000 legislative session (March 2000), he actually didn't leave office until the end of his term in January 2001. So the infobox and lede can (and probably should) show the dates of service as 1963 - 2001. That would be correct, but might create a conflict when compared to the (less than accurate) sources. Regarding your second concern: I could not find evidence that the Reaves family sold land directly to Disney. So the article is worded to reflect that land that Reaves and Bronson "worked" (in the open range period) and a specific number of acres that Bronson "owned" were sold to Disney. That is supported by the references, and does not conflict with the hook. Gulbenk (talk) 22:17, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
- I suspected as much concerning the legislative terms. Regarding the Disney land, I agree that the article is fine with its grouping however I am concerned about the accuracy of the hook mentioning it. Perhaps a wording like that ... (existing hook) farmer on the land near what is now Disney World before (rest of hook)? As that appears to be more faithful to the sources while still keeping the feel of the hook as much as possible. Mifter (talk) 01:33, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, I think that works. Please take a look at ALT 2, to see if it reads better. Only one additional issue, farmer→rancher (for reasons previously mentioned). Gulbenk (talk) 05:22, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- looks good to me - ALT2a approved (thanks for catching my typo with saying farmer instead of rancher, I renumbered ALT2 as you proposed at the top to ALT2a because SoWhy also has an Alt2 in the discussion). Best, Mifter Public (talk) 20:04, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- I suspected as much concerning the legislative terms. Regarding the Disney land, I agree that the article is fine with its grouping however I am concerned about the accuracy of the hook mentioning it. Perhaps a wording like that ... (existing hook) farmer on the land near what is now Disney World before (rest of hook)? As that appears to be more faithful to the sources while still keeping the feel of the hook as much as possible. Mifter (talk) 01:33, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- Thank you for helping to improve this article. Gulbenk (talk) 20:47, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
- Mifter, thank you for taking up this task. I think that the conflicts, related to dates of service have to do with the difference between the date one is elected and when one actually takes office. The full two year terms always begin in an odd numbered year. I believe that Reaves was elected in November 1962, and took office in January 1963. Likewise, even though he announced his retirement (and received that Resolution from the Legislature) at the end of the 2000 legislative session (March 2000), he actually didn't leave office until the end of his term in January 2001. So the infobox and lede can (and probably should) show the dates of service as 1963 - 2001. That would be correct, but might create a conflict when compared to the (less than accurate) sources. Regarding your second concern: I could not find evidence that the Reaves family sold land directly to Disney. So the article is worded to reflect that land that Reaves and Bronson "worked" (in the open range period) and a specific number of acres that Bronson "owned" were sold to Disney. That is supported by the references, and does not conflict with the hook. Gulbenk (talk) 22:17, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
