Template:Did you know nominations/La Promenade (1870 Renoir)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:33, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
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La Promenade (1870 Renoir)
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... that La Promenade (pictured) shows the influence of rococo and the high-key palette of Impressionism?
- Reviewed: The 12 Days of Christine
Moved to mainspace by Viriditas (talk). Self-nominated at 12:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC).
Nice article on good sources, offline sources accepted AGF. Hook: to me it looks more like playing with Rococo themes than "influenced", - I don't know what the sources say? - I don't know what exactly "high-key palette" is supposed to mean nor is it in the article. If the wording is from a source, please quote it in the article and use quotation marks in the hook, but I would prefer a simpler wording. I added (pictured). Is the painter intentionally not mentioned? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:01, 9 May 2015 (UTC)- @Gerda Arendt: It's all sourced in the article. Search for the following:
Influenced by the rococo revival style during the Second Empire...Throughout this decade, the eighteenth-century rococo art movement was back in style and Renoir embraced it...The image of lovers walking through a woodland is based on a popular rococo theme...Loyrette notes the influence of Monet in La Promenade and the change in Renoir's style since Les Fiancés (1868). The Impressionist influence on Renoir, Perrin Stein writes, led to his increasing use of the high-key palette. Renoir's "lightness and delicacy of touch" here is, according to John House, reminiscent of rococo artist Jean-Honoré Fragonard (1732–1806)...
- To directly answer your question, Renoir was not "playing" with Rococo themes, he was directly influenced by them here for two reasons: 1) they were extremely popular and in fashion at the time and, 2) Renoir had a lifelong interest and devotion to the eighteenth-century style, "a model of an ideal existence in which art and craft thrived without the competition of industrialization and the growing rift between city and country". As the cited critics note, the painting depicts the older, but popular rococo theme of lovers walking through a woodland. The brushwork here is also reminiscent of rococo painter Fragonard. While Renoir had one foot in the past, he also had one foot in the future. The influence of the newer high-key palette of Impressionism on this work was due to several historical factors, including the recent technological innovations in pigments which allowed artists to closely duplicate the effects of sunlight on objects. This innovation, combined with Monet's influence on Renoir the year before this work was produced ("In 1869, Renoir and Monet spent time painting together at La Grenouillere") changed Renoir's approach to painting. His darker colors became significantly lighter. Per the sources, La Promenade is an example of this influence. To summarize, the hook illustrates the two competing visions of art found in this work: the themes made popular by the older rococo revival style during the Second Empire (when this was painted), and the newer Impressionist high-key palette made possible by recent technological developments in pigment production and the influence of Monet's style on Renoir. There's nothing controversial or disputed here. Viriditas (talk) 22:19, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- (edit conflict, response to first half of your comment:) Thank you for the exact sources, which I had no doubt existed, just I had no access to the wording. - We still have the term "high-key palette" which I don't understand. If you tell me that's my limited language and others will know what that means, fine. Otherwise think of a link or a simpler term. - I would prefer using "rococo revival" to "influence of rococo", - what do you think? - To second half: There is nothing "disputable", the question is how best to address the simple readers of the Main page - like me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:16, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: a link to rococo revival is probably OK, so no objection to that change. As for "high-key palette", that is the appropriate, albeit technical term for the Impressionist choice of color. You can read more about it at high key (which could also be linked). One of the reasons this is so important to the hook is the fact that this is one of Renoir's earliest Impressionist paintings, and the high-key palette is indicative of this style. To learn more about the high-key style, please see the following links:[1], [2]. Viriditas (talk) 02:53, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
- Gerda, per the above, I've changed the hook. Please review.[3] Viriditas (talk) 03:06, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you for the changes, but please, don't change a hook that has caused a discussion, because the discussion gets incomprehensible then. Write an ALT, - I do it this time:
- ALT1: ... that La Promenade (pictured) shows the influence of the rococo revival and the high-key palette of Impressionism?
I learned something new! - Consider to drop the link to Impressionism ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:14, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
- Gerda, per the above, I've changed the hook. Please review.[3] Viriditas (talk) 03:06, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: a link to rococo revival is probably OK, so no objection to that change. As for "high-key palette", that is the appropriate, albeit technical term for the Impressionist choice of color. You can read more about it at high key (which could also be linked). One of the reasons this is so important to the hook is the fact that this is one of Renoir's earliest Impressionist paintings, and the high-key palette is indicative of this style. To learn more about the high-key style, please see the following links:[1], [2]. Viriditas (talk) 02:53, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
