Template:Did you know nominations/Zhirinovsky's ass

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PFHLai (talk) 09:19, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Zhirinovsky's ass

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... ~~that Russian populist nationalist liberal democratic politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky claims his ass is a symbol of Russia~~?

Created/expanded by Greyhood (talk). Self nom at 21:06, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

ALT1:... ~~that Russian populist nationalist liberal democratic politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky got his ass whipped in a campaign commercial?~~ Daniel Case (talk) 18:57, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

ALT2:... ~~that in Soviet Russia, ass whip you, but in post-Soviet Russia you whip ass!~~? (Sorry, couldn't resist this one). Daniel Case (talk) 18:57, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Tightened wording to make the hook funnier. Daniel Case (talk) 18:42, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Length, reference and history verified (Wow, I can actually understand Zhirinovsky's Russian! Mainly because he actually used "symbol" while I had my ears out for "znak"). But perhaps we could not only clean up the cite for the video, but see if we can link to it somewhere where it's posted with the permission of the copyright holder. Some of the English needs to be cleaned up. And I am amazed that we have an article but the Russian Wikipedia does not, yet. Daniel Case (talk) 18:57, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Support ALT1. I have changed the reference to the video to the page on the official site of the LDPR. Cannot help with cleaning up the language, though. GreyHood ^Talk 22:03, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Guys, how about growing up? Note that the article's name is currently Zhirinovsky's donkey, so if it stays that way, some of these hooks aren't going to work well. ED is encyclopediadramatica.se/Main_Page that-a-way. J N 466 20:54, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

The article is only like that because you ignored WP:BRD and have refused to abide by WP:RM. Please do not move back, because it is clearly a controversial move. Russavia ^{ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)} 21:44, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Excuse me? As far as I am concerned this is a blatant and extremely childish BLP violation. --J N 466 00:11, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Everyone is more or less childish. April 1 is of course very childish, so should be Wikipedia. Note that April 1 is not a serious holyday.GoP_T^C_N 13:01, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Has someone important left the DYK offices and forgotten to call back? After the horrific Eastenders incident, for which not enough heads have rolled, we now get this farce? The slow decline of Wikipedia generally may be traced to this part of the machine! Can we PLEASE just ditch this nonsense and get back to some proper work? Utterly baseless playschool humour encouraged by the kind of editors who appear to have no interest in the project's actual aims and values. Well done, guys, hilarious. doktorb _words^deeds 21:09, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Is this being prepared for April 1 ? DS (talk) 21:54, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Russavia ^{ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)} 21:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, this is not an ordinary DYK nomination, but one made for the First April MP. GreyHood ^Talk 22:01, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

No, sorry, not good enough. This is painfully inappropriate. doktorb _words^deeds 06:06, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

We had a gay magazine, a lesbian painting, etc., and none of the hooks were removed. Why should this be declined? Isn't Wikipedia censored? Or am I mistaken?. GoP_T^C_N 13:01, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I didn't receive any backlash (at least not on my talk page) when Go the Fuck to Sleep was on the main page a year ago. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 08:51, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Support ALT1. Normally I would say no, but for April Fool's Day it's entirely appropriate. InverseHypercube (talk) 00:21, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Note: mentioned here (not by me). Nikkimaria (talk) 01:24, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Please be aware that the "fun" (childish pun) element of this article in the English use of "ass" in relation to wikt:buttocks is entirely manufactured and the article creator has just admitted on the Talk page that he knows the "ass" double entendre only plays in English and all the Russian sources simply say "donkey". If it ever gets to April 1st without being AfDed it won't have the word "ass" anywhere in it by then. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:29, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

First, I never said I did not know the double entendre. Second, the double entendre is the basis of the pun. Third, it doesn't matter whether the word is in the article at all - the pun still would work. GreyHood ^Talk 11:52, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

In ictu oculi, please be careful laying down the law, because the use of "ass" is not manufactured. It was used in both English and Russian media. Russavia ^{ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)} 11:59, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Russavia - the quite puerile use of "ass" (hahaha) clearly has been manufactured and the two of you are the main if not sole culprits. Please stop wasting everyone's time with this. Both the Russian original osyol wikt:осел and the WP:RS citations like New York Times, Voice of Russia translate "donkey" - there is no mention of "buttocks" wikt:задница or wikt:зад anywhere in the Russian sources, and this was explained to you both by at least three native-English speaker editors in attempting to change to non-ambiguous "donkey". In ictu oculi (talk) 13:04, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

I really think a look at the edit summaries here tell the whole story:

10:28, 28 March 2012 (we really have grown into a community of prudes -- mericuuuuh....fuck yeah....we're gonna censor your fucking wikipedia, mericuuuuh fuck yeah)

10:24, 28 March 2012 (Fucking was on the front page at DYK too you know ;))

10:21, 28 March 2012 (an arse is an arse, an ass is an ass, a fanny is a fanny, a fanny is a...fill in the blank...).

In ictu oculi (talk) 01:12, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

In ictu oculi, please stop making statements which make no sense. There is no word "ass" in Russian, and there is absolutely no reason why the English pun should hold for the Russian language too. For DYK on the English wiki it is absolutely enough that there is a pun in English. At the same time it is clear that the terms "ass" and "donkey" in English are interchangeable when we talk about animals, and given the long existence of articles such as African wild ass the term "ass" is surely appropriate. I've already explained above why the original version of the article was built around one term only - because I was using Russian sources, and a brief glance at the first English-language source which I saw (the article at the English version of the RIAN site) has shown me that the word "ass" is appropriate. Returning to the pun, you apparently think that this kind of humor should stay off MP. But that's your own subjective opinion, not supported by many other users. It is your right to oppose this for the DYK of course, but you better avoid personal attacks on other users while doing this opposition (the baiting of Russavia, "culprits" on the article's talk page etc). Remember that not everyone is a native speaker here, and not everyone's attitude is as prudish as yours - Wikipedia is not censored, and it is especially strange to enforce the censorship on the April Fool stuff. GreyHood ^Talk 00:01, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Delete?

Is there a mechanism through which this template can be deleted? I am wholly against this puerile childishness being accepted for the front page doktorb _words^deeds 12:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Keep? Ass and donkey is the same in English language, isn't it?--GoP_T^C_N 09:44, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

No, it isn't. Ass can also mean 'buttocks', which makes this inappropriate for a mainpage spot. A more appropriate word would be 'donkey'. The Cavalry (Message me) 10:16, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

In my language, it is arse. An ass is a donkey to me, an arse is an arse. What would we do if the article was about The Nanny, how she was out on her fanny. Do we keep that off the front page because it actually means the hoohoo rather than the haahaa in many countries? ;) Russavia ^{ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)} 10:21, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, please note, that Fucking was on the front page a couple of years ago; unfortunately we were prudish enough back then to note have the main hook (it would have been the biggest DYK of all time), but I can confirm that Fucking was on the front page. Russavia ^{ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)} 10:24, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Which reminds me, I've been meaning to get User:Russavia/fcuk done for sometime now. Not to mention articles on Cockburn, Koolyanobbing (say it slowly), amongst others. Sadly, WP is becoming the Prudeapedia, where the biblebelt rules, because heaven forbid if we should the word "ass" on the front page. Russavia ^{ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)} 10:28, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I am not talking about censorship, I am talking about standards. It's laudable that you have found some naughty words on the internet, I was giggling about the f-word being in a dictionary when I was 7 years old. That was 25 years ago. I've stopped laughing. Pure and simple question - is this the kind of material we should be promoting on the front page of Wikipedia, the very shop window of our project? Answer - No. doktorb _words^deeds 10:31, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

@Cavalry Yes, it is. Ass and donkey is the same in English language. My question had already an answer, so your response is actually pointless. Explain to me why we have numerous asses (donkeys) in English wikipedia?GoP_T^C_N 10:51, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Comment: In this day and age, even people who use "arse" for "buttocks" also know that "ass" is used elsewhere for the same thing, just as those who use "ass" for "buttocks" generally understand that it also means "donkey". This is the source of much grade-school humour. While "ass" is fine for the April Fools' Day hook, I do not think so for the article. Those who hold to the "omg ass just meanz donkey, u guise r being pr00dz" line are just trolling. They know of the double meaning, they're just playing dumb. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 16:09, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Comment: So well, the article is moved (though in not entirely correct way and soon likely it will be moved to a more shorter name "Zhirinovsky's donkey"). The article's title is not really relevant to the hook here. So could we proceed with DYK process? GreyHood ^Talk 15:56, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

This nomination was left stranded on the 2012 April Fool's Day page when activity on that page ended. I moved it back to main DYK for a conclusion of the discussion. --Orlady (talk) 17:52, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

for a number of reasons. It's far too disputed and caught up in politics to end up on the front page. I'm also not convinced describing him as liberal and democratic is appropriate, regardless of his party name. Secretlondon (talk) 21:10, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

The article itself is practically moribund, with only one edit since April 9, so the disputes seem to be in the past, as is the election that spawned the commercial in question. I'll be the first to agree that none of the earlier hooks work in a non-April-Fools context, but the reasoning for killing it is unconvincing. If the article is well-sourced, verifiable, and neutral, I don't see how it can be turned down, providing a new hook is supplied that is short enough and interesting enough. In fact, I'll start the ball rolling:

ALT4 ... that although Vladimir Zhirinovsky released a donkey video ad for his 2012 Russian presidential campaign, he came in fourth? —BlueMoonset (talk) 02:15, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

The article seems to be in very good shape; it appears to have been eligible when it was nominated (too bad that I got embroiled in a puerile discussion of asses). The article's discussion of the ways that the ad recalls Russian literary themes is particularly impressive. AGF due to Russian-language sources. I struck out the April Fool's hooks. I am, however, not wildly impressed with BlueMoonset's ALT4. I suggest the following (the first is a more straightforward variation on one of the April Fool's hooks):

ALT5: ... that a video ad for 2012 Russian presidential candidate Vladimir Zhirinovsky featured a donkey pulling a sleigh and called the donkey an allegory for Russia? --Orlady (talk) 03:14, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

badass read; date, length, ALT5 hook checked out; good to go, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 03:48, 26 May 2012 (UTC)