User:WBardwin/Archive 2 (Aug-Dec 2005)

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This is an user archive produced by User:WBardwin containing discussion material dated August 1st through December 31st, 2005.


Fair enough. I just try to keep Category:History of the United States tidy and I was mildly suspicious of a one-article category. BTW, this: District of Maine might be able to help with the Mass/Maine problem. And just so you know, in a lot of cases, for sheer convenience, we categorize things depending on where they fall under current state boundaries. The Colorado Gold Rush started in Kansas Territory, for example, but we stick it under Category:Colorado history. Anyhow, ignore me and carry on! And let me know if you get further with your history/regions plan. Historic regions of the United States is my personal crack. :) jengod 17:14, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Thank You[edit]

Late incoming, but I simply wanted to express my graditude for your advise about deleting minor problematic pages and the role of administrators. I know a newly appointed administrator and so will direct more problems/questions to him. Thank you for your advise; as the "Pachypodium project" is a rather large treatment of a genus of trees and shrubs from South Africa and Madagascar. I have been learning so much about Wikipedia that sometimes articles become unneeded. Take care.

tdwin476 --Tim Winchester 09:58, August 11, 2005 (UTC)


Yes, I agree; it's clearly been abandoned, and contains very little. I've deleted it. Thanks for warning me (and yes, there are times that becoming an admin seems the biggest mistake I've ever made). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:28, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Err... did you see this?[edit]

[1]? :) Dmcdevit·t 07:11, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I did see your suggestion about a admin position. I'm thinking seriously about it, but it does seem self serving to have my ease of access as the primary motivation. And, quite frankly, I work in such obscure corners and on topics of such minority interest that I doubt few editors know I exist. So, give me a little time and we'll talk again. I do appreciate your willingness to nominate me, however. Its heartwarming. Best wishes. WBardwin 09:35, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
I tried to stress that that wasn't primary reason, but I'm not sure it came out that way. Let me say that a few days ago Brian0918 created a list of Wikipedians with top edit counts but not admins (take a look at WP:RFA's talk). I saw that perused the list and made a mental note for a few names I recognized to watch, with an eye to nominate them (yours being one of them). I think it was the next day that I accidentally caused your block. Since we were already in communication, I thought I'd just leave a note about adminship, having taken a look at Kate's Tool and your contributions, (mmm... edit summaries). So you should know that I believe I would have gotten around to asking you even without this blocking thing. Oh and I do think you would be an easy promotion. Unless you have some kind of big conflict you've been involved in, your contribution history is more than enough (I mean, they let me through, and who's ever heardof that "Dmcdevit" guy?). You are modest, I know, so I just thought I'd try a little convincing before giving up. Of course, it's fully your choice. I'm going to bed now, so I'll give you another day to think about it... Dmcdevit·t 09:50, August 18, 2005 (UTC)


Please see my question on my talk page - this would be a good WP:LDS group topic to discuss, however, let's see what we come up with first... -Visorstuff 20:56, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

A hard one. You have to remember I was spouting off a little. But ---- Semitism i.e. 1)Semitic character or qualities and 2)policy or predisposition in favor of Jews, ----so anti-Semitism can either mean "against semitic characteristics" or "against favoritism towards Semites." I would say yes, inherently the use of anti makes a target of the word which follows, and may assign the word a negative value. In words which describe a condition or action (anti-slavery, anti-discrimination, anti-censorship), "anti" immediate forces a judgment, and often a moral judgment, on the next word. But when the target is a people, like Mormons or Jews, you are actually focusing on and personalizing an enemy (see Dehumanization. "Anti-Mormon", whether labeled by Mormons or self named, strongly implies an emnity against the Mormon people, when actually most are opposed to or critical of some aspects of Mormon doctrine or culture. But, every time the term is used, an accusatory finger is pointed at each individual Mormon, and that probably generates our defensive emotional response. Of course, the exceptions exist -- anti-matter in physics would be inherently neutral.
I think it would be a worthwhile discussion for the LDS group -- but emotionally charged and hard to pin down. I'll be interested in your response and ideas. WBardwin 02:31, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Criticism of Prem Rawat[edit]

I've just tried a few minor edits, and had no problem; I suspect that the servers were playing up, probably because they were overloaded (it's been happening a lot lately). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:01, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Benjamin Grierson[edit]

Noticed your revision of the Grierson article just after I dropped in a few details and added the Civil War category. Although I don't often work on military topics, I'll try and keep your format suggestions in mind. I have been working on a number of abolitionist biographies. Some of these men also served in the war, and I may do a little more revising. Thanks for your efforts.

You are welcome. Although I have more than enough to do to empty out my to-do list, I often go off on little tangents when I see someone else make a change to something in my watchlist. In case you are interested, I maintain a page that has style information about Civil War articles and biographies I do: User:Hlj/CWediting. I do not claim to know how all of the other biographies on this site are formatted, but I have done many biographies for people in the Civil War and try to use a common format for those. Hal Jespersen 19:46, 24 August 2005 (UTC)


I didnt do the space civilization thing, but i did leave the comment about the roman definition of civilization

left by User:Prunetucky

Glad to see you picked up a user name. It makes it easier to talk. I'm into history and the origin of words too, so your comment made sense to me. I do think a paragraph on the origin of the idea and words relating to civilization would be very helpful. Let me know if I can help. WBardwin 06:13, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Re: Warburton, Greater Manchester[edit]

Hi WBardwin and thanks for the info. I re-linked to Anglo-Saxons rather than Saxons mainly because the Saxons article ends its discussion of Saxons in England shortly after they arrive; the story of Saxons on British soil is handed over to the article Anglo-Saxons at roughly 450 AD, long before the days of this great Queen. On this occasion I was going for relevance to the story rather than semantic precision, but I couldn't pretend to be an expert and I have no strong feelings either way, so if you'd like the link to point to one of the other meanings instead, please go ahead and revise my dab! Cheers again, ~ VeledanTalk + new 01:09, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Hello --- do you like ancient history, too? Probably the Saxon article is the one that needs additional work. I'll add it to my to-do list (sigh). I think it was Ethelfleda's brother who started, shortly after her death, really consolidating the more-or-less independent kingdoms under one authority. And, of course, it took more time for "England" to be come an entity. Will try and work on it. Hope to see you around. WBardwin 02:38, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
I am a history freak (spotted!), but my 'home' period is high medieval rather than 1st millenium. Most of my hobby reading centres around the life & times of Henry II with occasional forays into the wider medieval period and world. (although I am reading Bede right now, which I expect is why I started work on the Saxons dab).
I like source texts and a more fleshed-out story. I find archaeology without contemporary texts painfully tantalizing.
Incidentally, I do think the term 'Anglo-Saxon' is used of the AnglesSaxonsJutes generally before the kingdoms were unified. There is much discussion on the A-S talk page about what should belong to which article, and a few people seem to think the ASJs may have merged before even setting foot on British soil. ~ VeledanTalk + new 20:10, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Ute War[edit]

I think this article should be a subsection of Paiute. I'm really new to Wikipedia though and do not know how to merge without cut and paste. --Banana04131 03:35, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I would merge (cut and paste) the content of both the article and discussion page (if useful) into Paiute and then make Pah Ute War a "redirect page" to Paiute. That will ensure that someone typing in that spelling will go to the bigger article. For instructions on merging and redirects see: Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages. I think it would make a nice subsection in the bigger article. And there seems to be sources online and elsewhere there to work with. Let me know if I can help. WBardwin 03:43, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Will do. Thanks! --Banana04131 16:53, 27 August 2005 (UTC)


Just wanted to thank you for tidying up Fayez Banihammad and making it a bit more decipherable, I appreciate the effort and am glad to see another of the hijackers' articles cleaned up :) Sherurcij 21:19, August 27, 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for the heads up, he's on my watchlist now. I have about 3 months of work on my current to-do list, so I'll leave this one to you. I can't say I've ever heard of this guy. Hal Jespersen 03:08, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Rus culture[edit]

Sure, I can add a little information to it. I'll have a look later.--Wiglaf 22:45, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I borrowed two books on the subject from SUB. The emergence of Rus 750-1200 by Franklin and Shepard and Medieval Russia 980-1584 by Janet Martin. I'm taking some time to read both books at least somewhat and then I'm going to see if I can contribute to culture of Ancient Rus.
Peter Isotalo 17:39, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Lurking and present[edit]

I haven't been contributing much lately, but I am lurking. I enjoy what is happening. I hope to be contributing sometime soon. Jgardner 22:46, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Doomsday Book[edit]

Thank you for cleaning up Doomsday Book! ♥purplefeltangel 22:01, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

You are quite welcome. It's a start, but we should probably add things like a character list and the awards given to the novel. I'll try to dig out my copy sometime soon. It's nice to talk to another science fiction fan. Peace. WBardwin 22:38, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Culture of Ancient Rus[edit]

Hi there, WBardwin! Thanks for fixing some parts of the article. I'm not a native speaker, so I imagined there would be numerous mistakes. I wish I had the will to finish other chapters of the Russian culture article, but it's just too much and other Russians don't seem to be interested right now. KNewman 17:49, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

Hi, KNewman! I'm afraid it was just a quick copyedit, but I have recruited two other users -- Wiglaf and Peter -- who tell me they are willing to work on the article as well. It is a broad and complex subject, and my knowledge of Russian culture, I'm afraid, is post Ivan. But we can work on it a little at a time. Best wishes. WBardwin 17:57, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Robert Lounsberry[edit]

Sorry, I should have replied before (I'd just come back from a few days away, and was trying to catch up). Yes, if there turns out to be a Robert Lounsberry, the redirect can be replaced by an article, and a dab page created. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:27, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Family farm hog pen[edit]

Thank your for your careful and factual editing of the subject article. Those were my hogs you talked about. <smile> Phil talk 15:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome -- I was talking about my Dad's pigs as well. He always looked after them and made sure they had the opportunity to be clean and comfortable. Stereotypes are hard to overcome! WBardwin 01:59, 1 October 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for your improvements to my new pages.

Above message left by User:Wredlich on October 14, 2005. WBardwin 03:34, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia, talking to someone on their first day is unusual for me. I'm happy to help with little editing chores and did a few things on your new articles to help them conform to common usage here. However, I have asked an administrator about the article -- which by your user name -- you created about yourself. These are usually considered "vanity articles" and are discouraged in the main encyclopedia. Wiki suggests that this information go on your User Page, where people can read about you as a person. The links to personal web sites are particularly appropriate on your User Page. So you may get a note from User:Mel Etitis about that article. I'll copy this note to his user page, so he will know we've been in touch. Hope to work with you again -- I do a lot of stuff on 19th century biographies! WBardwin 04:18, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Sorry not to have responded 'til now (when it's all been dealt with); I've just struggled through a particularly heavy and stressful first week of term, and haven't been able to look in on Wikipedia as often as usual. I'm glad that it was all sorted out to everyone's satisfaction. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 13:55, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Ecclesiastical government[edit]

I like your addition to this subject. What do you think about mention of the controversial Dominion of Melchizedek there as it has been recognized by the Central African Republic as an "ecclesiastical sovereignty"? 01:36, 17 October 2005 User:Johnski


WBaldwin, responded to the discussion on Pottery as requested. Jberkus 07:22, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

34 million[edit]

No no, don't take it the wrong way, I meant that I'm not going to revert you, not that I took yours personally (first one's free :). I think your suggestion is a good one, and would help the depop. section; I'll go look for some sources. For the intro though, if we have a number, my main worry was just that we not let it look definitive, as there's no space to go into detail on it. I think a range would work though (offhand, something like 15-40 million most likely, with most estimates in the middle). Btw, I just spent half an hour on this one edit, thought I'd share it! Cheers, Dmcdevit·t 04:05, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Creative input on my page[edit]

LOL, you're not referring to List of books with the subtitle "Virtue Rewarded", are you? I'd have you know those are bona fide books. I'm going to pretend I never saw The Swiss Knight. Well, after I help get it up to Featured status. You know the battle cry of the FAC regulars (or maybe you don't, but it remains a fact): references, references, references! That baby needs footnotes. I'm delighted to hear you're not getting blocked as often, W. It would be interesting to know if that represents any software improvement, or merely lower MARMOT activity. Here's hoping it's over. In case not, that was a very good idea of yours last time, putting an appeal on your own Talk with a telling edit summary. The "blocked" popped right up at me on my watchlist. Best, Bishonen | talk 10:07, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Your message[edit]

Article deleted — and thanks for your message. Some of the experience was unpleasant, but the net result has been more messages of support than I'd have hoped for, which has been warming. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:30, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm perfectly happy for you to alert me to speediable articles; I might not always be as quick to respond as I'd like, though (especially this term), and putting {{d}} on the articles might get a quicker response. I notice that the latest article had already gone by the time I saw your message. But I certainly don't object (it makes me feel useful). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:42, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Smith Family[edit]

I didn't mean to be insensitive to your ideas or input. There are a whole series of articles on U.S. political families, and this was meant to be related to that series. No doubt the Smiths got their power from religion, just as the Rockefellers did from oil, and the Kennedys did from bootlegging. My goal in defining the Smiths as a political family was to avoid references to Joseph Smith III, Joseph Fielding Smith, etc., who were influential folks, but not politicians. I just grabbed the name Smith Family first. Someone could just as easily start a Smith Family (Mormonism) thread to discuss their religious influence, etc. Perhaps a disambiguation caveat/link at the top of the thread is in order. I just spent a ton of time proving that most Mormon political families are closely related (completely shocking that a few thousand formerly polygamist families living in the same state would be linked by now, huh :) ), and the series of articles I've been posting lately are the result of that research. My hope is that others will read my articles and glean a new perspective (most people know that these dudes were Mormon big shots, most people are ignorant of their direct political participation or family relations). If I don't focus the article, it is likely to become a hodge-podge of unrelated Smith info. Thank you for your input and suggestions! Dr U 04:17, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, it is true that it doesn't take much to find a new cousin in any Mormon crowd. Plural marriage/polygamy will make your family relationships more intricate, and the concept and mechanism may need to be explained. I'm still not clear on exactly where you are going with the article, but you might look at "Uncle" John Smith's family, the brother of Joseph Smith, Sr. Also consider the Mayor's of Salt Lake City and Provo, Utah, and prominent southern Utah families -- i.e. Cannon, Matheson and Leavitt as well. Many of the early mayors (and Church Stake Presidents and authorities) involved in these areas were tied in with your families, and some may have given rise to the present batch involved in national politics. Other ideas may be available from editors in the LDS project. Feel free to check in. Good luck -- I'll "watch" your article with interest. WBardwin 04:31, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Look at the Udall article. I didn't start that one...I found it as a 5 or 6 sentence stub..but I turned it into a real entity with graphics and ancedotes. My goal is to eventually have about 10 articles (including the Smiths) similar to the Udall one. Thanks for your interest! Dr U 04:48, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

See my recent draft of an article on Utah state senator Martha Hughes Cannon. She's only related to the Cannon's on the distaff side, but might be worth a mention. Your comments welcome there too. WBardwin 04:58, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, yeah[edit]

Yeah, yeah, I used to be carefree where I put in an unmediated appearance too, once upon a time, before I was an admin...! Frutti di Mare 02:37, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

And one that rotates through the cache proxies to boot. You'll be causing virtuous users to be blocked through collateral damage next! Frutti di Mare 02:46, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


I posted a reply at Talk:List of Bubonic plague outbreaks a while back and am interested in your response.--Commander Keane 06:46, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

The Kitchen Fears The Knight[edit]

Greetings good sir, wanted to thank you for your comments regarding our glorious savior; The Swiss Knight. However I must ask how it was you came across his page? AshJW 00:44, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

...through the wonders of that oracle of all things Wiki -- the glorious Random article. Destiny and fate, good chronicler, destiny and fate. All hail the Swiss Knight. WBardwin 06:05, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Purported Cults[edit]

I guess I missed the VfD. Here's my opinion and suggested solution: Have a great day! Tom Haws 20:04, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

The Knight Fears the AFD[edit]

Perhaps you would like to weigh in here? Frutti di Mare 01:39, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


Thanks - as you can see from the long delay in responding - I am on irregularly and (in this case) just back from a family vacation. Trödel|talk 02:57, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Unkind treatment of newbie[edit]

Ash seems upset, and no wonder. Very unkind treatment of a newbie. :-( Bishonen | talk 22:46, 20 November 2005 (UTC).

No problem[edit]

Didn't realize there was a concensus. Will happily revert self, but maybe when you guys have time the regular editors can make the distinction a little clearer? Thanks! jengod 00:41, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


Thanks so much for taking the time to extend a warm welcome to me. I may be a little less visible in the future, but it's good to be back. Tom Haws 03:48, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Emperor Dowager Longyu[edit]

I've made it a redirect. Given that it's unlikely that anyone will type this in my mistake, you could put it up for deletion at Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion, though I didn't have time to see if any articles linked to it. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:26, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

One did:Corrected, and redirect deleted. Rich Farmbrough 23:08, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks much[edit]

Thanks for your comments on my article and the 'cleaning up'. I am new at this, so I'm sure I'll need a few touches here and there. I'm near enough to the Patty Cannon house and the Ferry to be able to get new pictures of both - I'll try to do that this week and add them to the articles. If I have the time I'll try to see if I can locate her grave in Georgetown, but most of what I've seen has references to "Potter's Field" which I belive is the paupers/prisoner's cemetary. If that's the case it's very likely unmarked. Thanks again.... Carnifex 05:24, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Classic Rock[edit]

Hello. I was wondering if you would like to participate in my classic rock survey. I'm trying to find the most like classic rock song. There is more information on my user page. Hope you participate! RENTASTRAWBERRY FOR LET? röck 02:43, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Early life of Joseph Smith, Jr. -- featured status vote[edit]

Thanks for your suggestions on this article. The article is now up for featured article status. Please vote here, if you can. COGDEN 22:38, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Early life Joseph Smith will be featured on the Main Page on the front page on the 23rd. Vandalism will probably be frequent that day. Could you help in monitoring the page that day? The 23rd starts at 7 pm ET I believe since wikipedia goes by UTC. Thx in advance. Trödel•talk 22:38, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks - our office was originally going to be closed on the 23rd, but the owner changed our holiday to Mon to match the bank's holidays, so I have been trying to make sure we have lots of coverage, since I will be able to contribute little during work. I am hoping that the visibility will also produce some improvement as well - I have followed some other feature articles lately to see what happens and some edits are very useful. Trödel•talk 03:20, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Joseph Smith, Jr[edit]

Well, the real reason the Joseph Smith, Jr. article came to my attention was through his Early Life featured article. I went to that article, navigated to the Joseph Smith main bio and just skimmed over it a little. Realizing 'heretic' is a word often used in a religious context, and the fiery thoughts people have regarding Restorationism, I decided it would somehow be beneficial in inserting it into that part of the article. I have no real place in Restorationist theology or any expertise in the subject matter, so I must decline assisting in the project. It was just by chance that I came over the article. But my Boy Scout troop is mainly Mormon, and our meetings are held at the local LDS church, so it is nevertheless an intriguing topic. But thank you for recommending me to the project, and even though I am not actively working on or contributing to any Mormon history or theology articles, I may consider pledging my help to any articles relating to it. In the meantime, regards, Merry Christmas and God Bless. Эйрон Кинни 04:15, 23 December 2005 (UTC)