User talk:DLMcN

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Great Zimbabwe[edit]

Small items, tidying up[edit]

This edit is neither a minor edit nor can it be described the way you did as "small items, tidying up". You have added an uncited claim (views of "surrounding tribes") and made a controversial change by emphasising one controversial hypothesis in the title of a section that deals with many things. At least describe your work reasonably in the edit summary . Babakathy (talk) 00:17, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Apologies ... This has indeed been a very "turbulent", almost traumatic process - trying to discuss and then edit the Great Zimbabwe page. I found (and have added) a suitable citation. DLMcN (talk) 05:47, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Just so you know[edit]

(I have removed the "nonsensical" entry ! ... [I'm not sure where I should sign as having carried out that action, however])

Your edit summary did the job perfectly I would suggest. Thanks. Babakathy (talk) 09:04, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Reply to your questions about Raphta[edit]

Dear David: Please note that I am travelling at the moment and having trouble getting decent internet access, and won't be able to access my books and notes until after I return home later this month. I have three different English translations of the Periplus at home - of which, perhaps the most trustworthy one is that by Lionel Casson (based on an ealier one) which contains detailed notes as well as the Greek original. I will compare the accounts of Raphta after I get home and report back.

That said, perhaps you could start by checking out William H. Schoff's translation which has been digitalised and is online at: [1].

I think your supposition that other travellers, after the original Phoenician circumnavigation of Africa c. 600 BCE, probably sailed down the east coast of Africa is almost beyond question. There is evidence for this in both Western Classical and Chinese literature. I can give you more details on this if you wish, after I return home. Please remind me, though for, as I mentioned above, I am getting very forgetful (and also I will be very busy and distracted after I return). All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 11:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Great Zimbabwe[edit]

Dear David: Yes, I have often wondered how early outside countries became aware of the gold from Great Zimbabwe. Unfortunately, I have not come across any references that might point to it in early literature. Concerning the furthermost southern port on the East African coast known to the author, the 1st century Periplus mentions only that:

"Two days' sail beyond, there lies the very last market-town of the continent of Azania, which is called Rhapta; which has its name from the sewed boats (rhapton ploiarion) already mentioned; in which there is ivory in great quantity, and tortoise-shell. Along this coast live men of piratical habits, very great in stature, and under separate chiefs for each place. The Mapharitic chief governs it under some ancient right that subjects it to the sovereignty of the state that is become first in Arabia. And the people of Muza now hold it under his authority, and send thither many large ships, using Arab captains and agents, who are familiar with the natives and intermarry with them, and who know the whole coast and understand the language."

If there was any gold being shipped from there it was probably going to Muza in southwestern Arabia (and they could well have not have wanted the Romans to know this and kept the knowledge hidden. However, this is pure speculation on my part. I am sorry not to be able to supply you with anything more definite. If you do manage to turn something up, please do let me know. It may be worth contacting the archaeologist who has done the ground-breaking work at the mouth of the Rufiji River, Professor Felix Chami, I found him really helpful when I was writing my book, Through the Jade Gate to Rome. His email address is (or was) All best wishes, John Hill (talk) 01:20, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks John ... Indeed, as I state in my essay at - M. Horton alludes to a deliberate policy of keeping secret that southeast African gold-source, citing the Yemeni writer Al-Hamdani of 942 AD; see 'The Swahili corridor' in Scientific American 257 (September 1987), pp. 76-84. It is by no means impossible that early explorers always made a point of testing the effluent at the mouths of rivers, to see whether they contained gold. Had they done that, the Zambesi and Sabi (= "Save") rivers would both have given positive indications.--DLMcN (talk) 05:44, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Zesan 澤散/ Azania[edit]

Hi again! Thanks for your interesting article which I have downloaded and will read more carefully as soon as I can find time. Please see the draft notes for my translation of the 3rd century Chinese historical text, the Weilüe, Section 15, and the linked footnotes 15.1 and 15.2, for some of what I have been able to deduce about 澤 散 'Zesan' = Azania. This draft version (I intend to publish the whole as a book later) is available on the Silk Road Seattle website at: [[2]]. However, I am in the process of revising all these notes - so please don't quote me without checking first. Hope it is of some interest. Best wishes, John Hill (talk) 06:28, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Great Zimbabwe: Very many thanks to you...[edit]

... for being there to support in the first place. Cliftonian (talk) 12:11, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


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UFP in 1962[edit]

Hopefully I've fixed this. Cliftonian (talk) 21:41, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


Hi Dave, the article is now back at FAC if you are interested in looking it over. I hope you and your family are well. Cheers, Cliftonian (talk) 09:32, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

October to December 2012 Milhist Peer, A-class and FAC reviews[edit]

Wiki-stripe2.svg Military history reviewers' award
By order of the Military history WikiProject coordinators, for your good work helping with the WikiProject's Peer, A-Class and Featured Article reviews for the period Oct–Dec 2012, I hereby award you this Military history WikiProject Reviewers' award. AustralianRupert (talk) 10:06, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Keep track of upcoming reviews. Just copy and paste {{WPMILHIST Review alerts}} to your user space

Many thanks ... that is incredibly kind and generous - because any contribution I may have made, must be a very tiny fraction of Cliftonian's efforts. --DLMcN (talk) 11:54, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Therefore, I am quite baffled by the fact that Cliftonian has received only one stripe in his award of today, compared with my two? --DLMcN (talk) 11:59, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
G'day, the awards are made based on the reviews an editor performs, which are tallied here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators#Quarterly reviewing totals. Reviews in this case does not include articles that they wrote/nominated for review. Cheers, AustralianRupert (talk) 12:30, 15 January 2013 (UTC)


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Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 08:06, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Great Zimbabwe[edit]

Hi, I've indefinitely blocked the editor in question for clear block evasion - see Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Starmagicxxx - if they re-appear please let me know, or alternatively post at WP:AIV, stating they are evading their block (in case I'm not online!). GiantSnowman 18:56, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi, you should continue to use the talk page and come to agreement with Waslalh. Regarding protecting the page, there has not been enough recent disruption to justify it - however I have added the article to my watchlist and will monitor. GiantSnowman 16:42, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Just noticed there are a couple of links to your own website on the Great Zimbabwe article, please can you clarify? Thanks, GiantSnowman 12:50, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for continuing to keep watch ... I am only aware of one item - presently occupying reference no. 7 - providing quick and convenient access to a published article. It seemed relevant to insert it to help back up the claim [still under discussion with Waslalh] that "There are people, still alive today, who believe that it is possible that the ancestors of the Lemba were responsible for constructing GZim". --DLMcN (talk) 16:14, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

OR at GZ[edit]

Please don't reinsert this without getting agreement at WP:NORN that the two of us are wrong in calling it OR. If you do go there, give a pointer on the article's talk page. I'm winding down for a break so may not respond. Dougweller (talk) 05:48, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Would you be agreeable to including George Murdock as another possible adherent of the 'Lemba' theory? - for example by inserting [my earlier]: "...The Lemba claim to Great Zimbabwe was supported by Murdock((ref name="Murdock"))Murdock, G.P. (1959). Africa: its peoples and their culture history; see pp. 387 and 204 et seq. New York: McGraw Hill. ((/ref)) and by Gayre ..." --DLMcN (talk) 10:12, 6 May 2013 (UTC)


Hi, thanks for your suggestion about the Gayre comment and cite - I see what you mean. Will do. THanks for watching the article. Very interesting to see how the thinking has changed for some about their role at Great Zimbabwe (and just seeing the remains of that city makes you wonder about these great places humans built in so many areas).Parkwells (talk) 12:13, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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