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User talk:HJ Mitchell

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Hello and welcome to my talk page! If you have a question, ask me. If I know the answer, I'll tell you; if I don't, I'll find out (or one of my talk-page stalkers might know!), then we'll both have learned something!

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Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2017[edit]

Hi Harry, Have you thought about running?

I believe that you would make an excellent candidate and would do a great job.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 14:23, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

@Berean Hunter: Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate you thinking of me, but ... ha! Hahaha! Even if I had the time, I've seen enough of the inside of the sausage factory to know I'd be a terrible arbitrator and I'd hate every minute of it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:56, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Sensible chap! :-) Carcharoth (talk) 22:05, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Archive photos of WWI war memorials[edit]

Royal Fusiliers War Memorial between the wars (left) and after WWII (right)
Rangers' War Memorial on Chenies Street between the wars (left) and after WWII (right)

While looking for some photos of war memorials, I came across a batch that had been uploaded on Commons from the Imperial War Museum archives, do an "exact term" search (using quote marks) for "War Memorials of the First World War" in the image namespace on Commons, and you get all 56 of them. All taken by Horace Nicholls (1867-1941) and the license looks OK for all of them. I don't have time to do much more than dump most of them in commons:Category:World War I memorials in the United Kingdom (some were already in subcategories of that category, so not all of them are there), and to create a gallery of all 56 in a subpage in my userspace on Commons: see here. Maybe you might find some useful images there? Carcharoth (talk) 19:53, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Interesting, but perhaps more for historical reasons, for the people and the vehicles and the surroundings in the background, than as images of the memorials themselves. Most have not changed very much at all. I've added one to Cavalry of the Empire Memorial showing the memorial in its original position, before it was moved, with the stone backdrop that was omitted when it was reconstructed. And Hyde Park Corner was clearly a much more peaceful location for the Machine Gun Corps Memorial before the gyratory was built. Theramin (talk) 23:27, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
True. I found nine more by the same photographer held by the IWM, uploaded under the titles "War Memorials After the First World War" and "War Memorials in Britain After the First World War". I've added those to the gallery (at the end). Carcharoth (talk) 00:36, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
@Theramin: another example of a war memorial missing bits and pieces is commons:Category:Kennington War Memorial. According to the entry at Historic England: "The front of the memorial formerly bore a brass plaque of a cannon replete with a festoon of flags, as well as another brass plaque running around the bottom of the cenotaph section. These were removed/lost at some point after 1947 (whereabouts unknown)." Whereabouts unknown, indeed! Carcharoth (talk) 14:59, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
How interesting. Thanks for digging those out! Some of them will certainly be useful for the historical context, and even the ones we don't have an immediate use for are nice to have. How different the Royal Fusiliers Memorial looked then compared to its modern setting! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:54, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Hmm. It is not that different, but comparing two similar images side-by-side, I'm trying to work out which buildings have changed. At first I thought the memorial got moved, but I think it must be a combination of redevelopment of the buildings, either by choice or following wartime bombing damage. Wonder who might know. Hopeful @Iridescent: who might know. @Theramin: mentioned two other examples above, but having read up a bit on the Machine Gun Corps Memorial, the difference in appearance there was because like the Cavalry of the Empire Memorial, it too was moved to a different location. The other then-vs-now image contrast I found very striking was for the Rangers' War Memorial in Bloomsbury (the reason for the change there is an interesting one). I've put that and several other comparisons below. Not sure how to do a better layout, sorry! If I ever get the time, I might try and get some modern photos at nearly exactly the same angle for better comparative purposes (the Edith Cavell Memorial ones show some of the changes to Charing Cross, but none of our modern ones are at the right angles). Carcharoth (talk) 22:29, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me that the Machine Gun Corps Memorial was moved too. Just far enough to get it out of way of the wider carriageway, I think. But now I recall that the Royal Naval Division Memorial was moved too, before being put back where it started. I wonder if we can find an image of it while it was in Greenwich.

Most of the change in the background of the Royal Fusiliers War Memorial is accounted for by three things: the demolition of the buildings around and past Holborn Circus which had suffered bomb damage in the war, revealing the view of St Andrew Holborn; the replacement of the Gamages buildings (which were on the left, with the sun blinds, past the red Prudential Assurance Building aka Holborn Bars; and the replacement of the buildings to the right on either side of New Fetter Lane - the nearer stone one just past the entrance to Barnard's Inn and the next one which is now the Sainsbury's HQ, which was built for Andersen on the former site of the Daily Mirror's print works. Some of the post-war buildings have already been replaced. Theramin (talk) 00:44, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

I think there's a photo of the RND memorial at Greenwich in Skelton and possibly some of the other books. I've definitely seen photos of it there during my research; it was there until early in the Internet era so I'd have thought there would be free photos of it in-situ there somewhere on the Internet. What a state that article is in! It's a shame it's just been neglected and people have just added bits to it over the years and now it's just a mess. Btw, @Theramin: thanks for writing Their name liveth for evermore. I'd been thinking about that for a while. I might expand it with some book sources at some point but I'm trying not to go off on tangents until I've finished the Lutyens memorials, especially now I only have a handful left (at least in England!). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 09:32, 20 November 2017 (UTC)


Hi Harry. Would you mind taking a look at the FAC for Saint Fin Barre's Cathedral; it seems to have stalled somewhat. Thanks. Ceoil (talk) 16:27, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Of course. Hopefully I'll get time to look over the weekend, or failing that I have some time off work from Tuesday so I'll be able to look then. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 12:50, 17 November 2017 (UTC)


Hello Harry, thanks for your comments, much appreciated. I don't mind discussing sources and standards in a professional manner, but to be honest the needless infantilism demonstrated by comments from certain editors such as "you're waisting my time", "your inability to read", false accusations that I belong to an advocacy group, etc, are unbecoming of a respectable organization. I understand that such language doesn't meet your Wikipedia definition of "NPA", but such comments come across to normal professional people as disrespectful personal attacks. Would you say any of these things repeatedly in a professional job, whether to a coworker or customer, and not expect to get fired?

If, on the other hand, you can demonstrate that abrasive and over-aggressive comments are necessary and productive to a healthy online discussion, I would certainly love to see your WP:MEDDEF psychology sources for that!

I know that Wikipedia has challenges from all kinds of sources, but Wikipedia also suffers from editor flight, and will continue to push away more casual editors with this kind of behaviour. I think Wikipedia can do better and hold everyone to a professional standard, which benefits the whole community. Wikipedia needs to show mutual respect for all participants. Maybe something to discuss in the future?

Thanks for your consideration. Be well! PolarYukon (talk) 19:40, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thank you very much for blocking the IP troll. Ber31 (talk) 05:41, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

My pleasure. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 06:18, 19 November 2017 (UTC)