User talk:Metrodyne

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Welcome to Wikipedia!!![edit]

Hello Metrodyne! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. If you decide that you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. You may also push the signature button Button sig2.png located above the edit window. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. This is considered an important guideline in Wikipedia. Even a short summary is better than no summary. Below are some pages to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! -- Kukini hablame aqui 07:06, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
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Idaho Falls[edit]

Good job on finding those references for bits of the Idaho Falls, Idaho article. One question: one of your citations is to the Deserte News. Do you mean the Deseret News? Nyttend 05:12, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

"See also" sections[edit]

Hi, I see you have put back the links I removed from the "See also" sections in Henry's Fork Caldera and other articles. According to our manual of style (WP:ALSO#"See also" section), 'Links already included in the body of the text are generally not repeated in "See also" ...'. All of the links I removed were already included in the body of these articles. Can you please explain why you think they should also be listed in the "See also" section?

By the way, thanks for splitting Henry's Fork Caldera out of the Island Park Caldera article. It works a lot better that way. -- Avenue (talk) 00:29, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Response> I was not aware of the style manual. I did not know they were removed. I was edititing several articles at once and had no idea any were purposely deleted. I thought I had just missed them. Go ahead and delete or I guess I should.

As to Island Park Caldera vs Henry's Fork Caldera...there is a lot of confusion on this. Some people call the Island Park Caldera the "Hucklyberry Ridge Caldera" or the "First Cycle Yellowstone Caldera". Lisa Morgan, who with Bob Christiansen (sp?) are the two leading experts on SRP-Yellowstone volcanism and I beleive they use "Island Park Caldera" becasue the geologist who discovered it had it wrong and did not know there were actually two, besides the Yellowstone Caldera. They kept the name of Island Park because it was his name but created a new name for the more recent caldera that he was unaware of. I am not a geologist but was corresponding with Lisa Morgan a few months ago.

I've replied on my talk page. -- Avenue (talk) 11:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Bear River massacre[edit]

I noticed that you contributed to the Bear River massacre article, by quoting a newspaper article into the main article about the massacre.

First, I want to let you know that I appreciate your interest in this event, and I really would like you to contribute to the article if you think there is some additional information that could be added. Please, if you want to help improve the article, it is encouraged and I hope that you continue to make many more high quality edits in the future.

I left a longer note on Talk:Bear River massacre#Moving letter to Wikisource explaining my actions in regards to this letter that you added. I felt, given the nature and the fact that it is the entire letter to the editor, that it deserved to be placed into Wikisource instead of Wikipedia. Typically, verbatim duplication of an original source is not appropriate for an encyclopedia entry, and Wikisource does a better job of safeguarding original source material documents like this anyway. It is linked to other content about the Bear River Massacre, and it does provide an important historical context about what happened at the time. Thank you for taking the time to find this note!

If there is some way to add a short thumbnail of the events in this letter back into the main article, or better yet finding some additional source material about this event, it would be significantly appreciated. The purpose of this section of the article, at least how I originally organized it, was to show a broad pattern of hostile interactions between the native peoples what is today eastern Idaho and the American settlers traveling through the region in the middle of the 19th Century. I'll even try to help you out if you are stuck at figuring out where to go from here. --Robert Horning (talk) 16:58, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Response[edit]

Metrodyne>Why did you move the Deseret story about the torture of the girl out of the article? It is probably one of the most important factors that contributed to the massacre especially where it was reported in the newspaper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.49.186.130 (talk) 19:57, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Metrodyne Response to your posting to my talk page> Geese...it was not a letter to the editor. It was an article written in the Deseret News that quotes a letter that was written by a military official (I do not have the Deseret News articel to verify this now) I believe. It is an iron clad source where the incident was investigated by the US Calvary. Noted historian Brigham Madsen writes of it in several of his publications. Anyone can deny anything but if nothing else, the story is important simpley because it appeared in the Deseret News that many people in the area read. How can a source be better than that.

I will add Madsen as a source and see if he cited military documents but how far do we have to go to please you. It seems to me you have a preconcieved notion that Indians were always inocent.

I also think it is wrong to simply remove the entire section and then chalenge me to fix it. If you don't like it, maybe you should fix it. But it has an iron clad source, it is maybe one of the most important facts to the topic, and it should be in the Bear River massecre article! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Metrodyne (talkcontribs) 20:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I am trying to "fix" the article. If you think more of a mention needs to be put into the main Bear River Massacre article, OK. I'll even go so far as to write a synthesis of what was said.
The last thing I want to do is to engage in an full-out edit war over this particular piece of information. Please, understand that what we are trying to do is write an encyclopedia article about the topic and not necessarily publish complete verbatim original source material.
BTW, as much as I like the Deseret News as a source, this by itself is not justification or rationale to consider what is written as a historic fact. Almost every other incident that I've been involved with writing about in the main Bear River Massacre article has been noted from multiple sources of information, first hand accounts, and even competing and independent news coverage from contemporary reports.
For more information, please see Wikipedia:Verifiability that goes into some of the basics here about this concept and Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary.2C_secondary_and_tertiary_sources has some additional basics to consider when trying to use primary sources of information like you are doing.
Again, I did not "destroy" the material that you added, but instead moved it to s:The Late Massacre near Fort Hall. This is the most appropriate place to put information of this nature, as what you've added here is an original primary source of information. Please read s:Wikisource:What is Wikisource? to at least understand what Wikisource is all about. As for the manner in which you've added this content to the Bear River Massacre article, I am challenging that. I'm not trying to destroy what you've added, but you need to make a citation and not a complete verbatim quote of the whole of the source material. I am certain that if you took the trouble to search out more information about this incident, that you could find additional primary and secondary information about it that would not only give credibility but also fill in information about this particular incident.
As far as "fixing" the article... OK, I'll do just that. Please, don't fight me on this issue, but help me to write a better article. --Robert Horning (talk) 23:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
It was a short newspaper story that in and of itself, true of false, is part of the history.

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