User talk:T. Anthony/Archive

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This is an archive. It's the first one I did so it might be a bit long for an archive. In any event do not respond to or add things to the archive. Thank you.--T. Anthony 09:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)



Welcome to Wikipedia, T. Anthony! My name is Ryan, aka Acetic Acid. I noticed that you were new and haven't received any messages yet. I just wanted to see how you were doing. Wikipedia can be a little intimidating at first, since it uses different formatting than other sites that use HTML and CSS. In the long run, though, you'll find that the WikiSyntax is a

lot easier and faster than those other ways. Here are a few links to get you started:

There are a lot of policies and guides to read, but I highly recommend reading over those first. If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. Please be sure to sign your name on Talk Pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, along with a link to your user page. This way, others know when you left a message and how to find you. It's easier than having to type out your name, right? :)

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikipedia. We can use all the help we can get! Have a nice day. Sincerely, Acetic Acid 11:05, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. I hope those links came in handy. Acetic Acid 11:13, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
Doing stuff with religious leaders. Both controversial and the general list. A part of me is uncertain about putting the Nichiren people and Pat Robertson in the "controversial religious leaders" list. In Nichiren's cases it's because I'm not that familiar with modern Nichiren Buddhism so I fear controversial sounds too harsh. Although I tried to put in that that list includes "leaders who generate both passionate support and criticism." I think that might fit, although admittedly that could fit every religious leader or founder on Earth:) On Robertson my concern is that he doesn't really lead any religious denomination so it's kind of misleading. I might drop him from the list later.
The list of religious leaders of 2005 was long, but still missing many large and important faiths. Especially in the realm of Eastern religion and Oriental Orthodoxy. I tried to rectify that and add more Protestant leaders too. Although I may have went too far because I'm not sure Barbara Rinke or that Methodist I named could really be called "leaders" in the normal sense. I have a sister who is secretary at a United Methodist Church so I might ask her someday. Also I fear some of the Muslim ones listed could offend some Muslims, but that's certainly not my intent.
I'm feeling a tad guilty on the "religiousness and intelligence" editings. I'm worried I was too critical of its overall thesis to be objective, but I tried to add more atheists to its list as well as statements I've heard from atheists on interpretation. I might just avoid it from here on. I'm new to this whole thing so likely babbling.--T. Anthony 06:01, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
The "controversial religious leaders" deal is still up I guess, but it's essentially dead. I've switched my energies to this one of "convicted or indicted." This time I created it and so far it is mostly just me. Oh well it's interesting, if occasionally creepy, to do. I'm limiting it to more modern ages because in ye olden times just being a leader of an unpopular religion was a crime. Recent addition I'm uncertain of is Boston Corbett. I know a bit more about him then is in Wiki and as a minister his beliefs were very beyond the pale for Methodists. So it's like he was the leader, and possibly only adherent, of a religion. Although mostly I put him in because I'd like more historical, pre-WWII, content. I'm having difficulty finding that so thus far it's reading like a who's who of contemporary cults. Which is not what I'm wanting anymore. I think I'll separate it into headings a bit.
In other events I'm thinking of doing more with science fiction again. I'm just not sure where to start there. Also I added a bit to the East Orthodox Christian list. Swinburne is a big figure in Greek Orthodoxy in the English speaking world, I think, so he should've been an easy one to think up. One of my favorite professors is a Greek Orthodox convert, but I'd be uncomfortable asking him. That's all for now--T. Anthony 07:41, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
I took Boston Corbett off and replaced him with a Thuggee which is really kind of earlier than I intended. I wish I still had "God's Chinese Son" because I'd like to put Hong Xiuquan in instead of the Thug Behran. Xiuquan is also earlier than the restriction I made, but a good deal closer and kind of fitting. I intended to do science fiction some, but it's fairly well taken care of. It's also too much as I have several resources on it. Still I'll think on it.--T. Anthony 10:32, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

List of agnostics

I've pruned List of agnostics significantly. Could I persuade you to change your vote from "weak keep" to "keep"?

  • Maybe. Although I'd prefer a link or something as evidence on a few. I do think those all look valid to me. I might switch tomorrow, if I have that much time.(I'm hoping my recanting encourages some keep votes)--T. Anthony 07:42, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Chinese topics

Even if it may not appear to be the case, Chinese topics probably include some of the widest range of separate articles among the humanities/social science wing of Wiki and so certainly need more people to contribute to their refinement. So by all means, the opportunities are out there--go forth :) --Dpr 02:44, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

I have done a bit. I'm considering doing some on the leaders of the TaiPing Rebellion and maybe of some Han Dynasty figures. We'll see--T. Anthony 04:52, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Religion lists

I think the "list of controversial religious leaders" is finally gone. I have oddly enough been starting to have nightmares related to research on the List of convicted or indicted religious leaders so I'm thinking I'm going to take a break from it. Lists are fun, but they are also kind of easy so I get the sense they aren't very respectable here. I'm going to look through the sections on stubs for Chinese people and see what's to be done there. Might do the same with any stubs on saints. Maybe it'll cheer me up.--T. Anthony 18:54, 7 September 2005 (UTC) edited by/on--T. Anthony 01:59, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

I think maybe I was too mean to Scientology tonight. I mean sure I have my views of their religion, and they're unlikely to change, but it's undisciplined to express every smartmouth thought you have. Besides I've only ever known one of them and she wasn't very observant. Before tonight I've generally tried to be fair and even edited some of the harsher allegations that arose on the David Miscavige page. I think I'll keep Mary Sue Hubbard on the one part of the "convicted and indicted" list as she's on the more mainstream section that includes Jim Bakker and the former head of the National Baptists, but maybe I'll work to soften the Miscavige allegations to even things up a bit.--T. Anthony 10:40, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I want to thank you for your work on the list of new religious movements. I hope that all groups and movements that do not fit any of the stated definitions will soon be filtered out. Then the factual accuracy dispute can be removed. Thanks again. Andries 07:51, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome, but now I fear I was "begging for compliments." In fact I worried on that at the time of posting that one post at discussion. Anyway it's an interesting idea for a list and I learned a bunch working on it. I would've never known about some rather large new religions in Brazil or Africa without wanting to do research on this. Although a few of the new religions I learned about kind of creeped me out, the more violent or kinky ones mainly, so I almost considered dumping it. However I decided I could just look for ones that weren't like that and that helped a good deal. Anyway thanks for the compliment.--T. Anthony 08:20, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Because of your involvement in the list I think I should let you know the following comments by me about the list. [1] Andries 08:59, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes, Anthony. Andries thinks of me as the devil incarnate :). He does not see his own shortcomings, only other's. Thanks for your work on List of new religious movements, it is getting there slowly. --ZappaZ Yin yang.svg 20:07, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes I gathered that you two don't get along. That's sort of between you two and I have no strong feelings about it either way so far. Just don't fight here, not that I think you would it's just a generalized warning to anyone as well, and we're cool. Anyway thanks ZappaZ. I was "inspired" last night and did a great deal of work. Maybe too much, but I'm glad it's appreciated even by opposing sides.--T. Anthony 23:37, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Blast from the Past

I imagine Testem Benevolentiae is one of the pages I've worked on longest. I gave a fresh look again to see what was left to clean-up and unfortunately there was indeed some. So I marked the links off as links and have tried to present criticism a bit more. I'm still not sure it's quite up to snuff, but it's a start.--T. Anthony 09:07, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Working to avoid work

I have research in real life to do for classes, but instead I've been working on items in the Wikipedia:Articles requested for more than a year section. It's coming along okay, but is eating up too much of my time.--T. Anthony 09:13, 17 September 2005 (UTC)


Dear T. Anthony, re your post at Talk:Priscillian:

please do check the article according to your information. I already have done some editing. The "women" thing looked fishy to me, as it fits into "modernist hagiography" but I wasn't able to falsify it. Hence I retained it, but if you have better sources, than please proceed.

Your fellow historian Str1977 17:30, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm embarrassed to admit it turns out I really don't have that much solid information. I was thinking Catholic sources, which are unreliable on things like this, and my own suspicions. Although checking my Encyclopedia Americana it doesn't mention them having any views of women worthy of note, but at the same time it doesn't mention their treatment of women either way. On suspicions I don't know of any religious group in the classical West that accepted women as fully equal. Egyptian religion might be the closest I can think of at this moment and even that is not exactly true of them. Also the older Catholic sources I'd read would've been pretty okay criticizing them for letting women be equal, although they wouldn't have phrased the criticism like that. (Probably would've said they harmed the family and rejected Pauline tradition with regards to women, or something like that) I'll look through University sites and such sometime later to see if I can confirm or dispute their views on women.--T. Anthony 22:46, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Long requested articles

Yeah, I've been chipping away at them, on and off, for a couple of months now. I tend to work on the two year ones more, but I dabble. The only trouble is as the damned bot clears them daily, you don't get much credit for what you do - oh well. I do tend to click on any blue ones I see, and find who started the articles. Proto t c 15:33, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Yeah I think I did the two year ones more too, in least at first. I started the article on Tricategory even though I was not quite clear what it was I was writing. Luckily some mathematician came in and cleaned it up. Previous efforts at it had been deleted, but the current one seems to have survived. I did a few others on the two year list as well, Dorkenoo and Williams Sassine, then hit a brick wall and figured one year would be more of a project. I really should be getting to my actual projects for class of course, but oh well.--T. Anthony 15:40, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Erik Tulindberg

Please put the proper stub tag on stub articles, instead of adding them directly to a stub category. The stub tag (template) adds a stub notice to teh articel and addds it to a stub category. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types for the list of availble stub types and their tags. DES (talk) 16:49, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I wasn't sure what the write stub was for Finnish music, but thanks for fixing it.--T. Anthony 17:06, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

You are welcome. it is often hard to find the correct stub tag, but scanning the list usually will result in a proper choice, or at least a reasonable one. Your choice was fine, I just changed the category to the corresponding template. Always use the template, not the matching category, please. (there is more on this at [WP:STUB]].) And thank you very much for contributing to wikipedia. DES (talk) 17:14, 20 September 2005 (UTC)


See your hi in somebody else's talk page. You're interested in Chinese culture, aren't you? I'm just a freshman in Fudan University in Shanghai. Maybe we can become friends and help each other a lot. Nice to meet u again! --Anthony Aragorn 10:35, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Since I was thirteen or maybe earlier. Although I'm more into the dynastic eras. I have the Analects, the Mencius, Book of Songs, Art of War, Tao Te Ching, read some Sima Qian, and I took a year of Chinese. I was the top in my class my first semester of Chinese, which made me quite happy as they assumed I couldn't do it, and did adequate in my second semester. After that though the college quit offering it so I've not studied it for about 5 years. (I took time off between getting my BA and going to grad school) I tried to read Romance of the Three Kingdoms this Summer, ibut I admit I had trouble getting into it. My brother married a Jamaican woman of Chinese descent about eight years ago.
It takes me a bit to make friends. It's not a slight on anyone it's just my way. Still I thank you for the offer and maybe it will occur. It's like early morning where I'm at, so that's all for now.--T. Anthony 10:45, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
It doesn't matter. If you have problems about Chinese, maybe you can turn to me.--Anthony Aragorn 11:48, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Maybe. I think that's all for now for me though, Good night. (As I think night should be starting in Shanghai.)--T. Anthony 11:51, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Reply to "Duibuqi"

You didn't offend me Anthony :)--Exir KamalabadiEsperanza 11:11, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Good to know. I saw my first message was erased so thought I'd said something insensitive or something.--T. Anthony 12:03, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm glad to know that, too.--Anthony Aragorn 15:45, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh. I somehow accidently erased your message. Sorry.--Exir KamalabadiEsperanza 05:57, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry about it, it's nothing.--T. Anthony 06:16, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

What to do

I think I got too addicted to this and will hopefully start to scale back a bit. I do like researching and learning though. This gave me an excuse to do both. (Finishing my research papers isn't much new learning, just applying what I have learned.) Still it did start eating too much of my time. Also I fear I'd started to become less pleasant than I aspire to.

There's some kind of warning on images I see. I could never make images work to be honest. The only images I could make work were those copied from other Wiki pages. That worked surprisingly well. I'd take a picture from the Cliveden article and copy it for the article on Nancy Astor, etc. Maybe it's chintzy, but I didn't get any complaints so far. Anyway if I used a copywrighted image it was one already being used on Wiki so as far as I can tell it doesn't list me as using images really.

On what to do I guess I should do some more African stuff some time. It's not my main interest, but I think coverage of Africa is not very good at Wiki. That's probably not surprising as Africa is likely the least Internet connected continent. Still it's disappointing in that I figured there was more interest in the English speaking world then that. Liberia is a creation of the US and much of Africa was UK colonies--T. Anthony 00:33, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Testem Benevolentiae

It's said it's needed cleanup since July. I'm wondering what it still needs. Is it too long? What?

Also the way religions are dealt with at Wiki I think is at times a tad too sensationalistic. Not just my own, but every one. I think this might be unavoidable though as religion is a "push button" topic that inspires either vitriol and mockery on the one hand while on the other it inspires articles full of idolization or hagiography.--T. Anthony 08:30, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Benjamin Harrison V

I removed your line from this article because it was somewhat incorrect because Benjamin Harrison the first was prominent in England and so were his ancestors. They were still prominent when they came to America. Nice work on the Harrison family article. JobE6 20px 19:31, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh thanks on that, I appreciate it.--T. Anthony 22:46, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Jehovah's Witnesses and child sex abuse

It's great to see a non-JW take an interest in this area. Thanks T. Anthony! I hardly have time to do much contributing to Wikipedia these days to do much myself, but if you're interested, the child abuse issue needs some good research and writing to cover JW policy, Bill Bowen, the Dateline show, the BBC Panorama show and Silent Lambs], among others. Can you help?

Possibly. I really do have work to do, but maybe later this week I'll see what I can find. I was worried though that my motives would appear suspect. And to be honest it is true that a motivation was that it bothers me that "religious sex abuse scandal" only implies "the Catholic Church" to some. Still this was also newsworthy event and so I was surprised it had apparently not been covered.
Unfortunately, when it comes to working on this, I don't have many connections to actual JWs. There is a substantial Kingdom Hall in my county, but they don't socialize much with anyone I know. Closest is that I knew a former JW moderately well. We did academic/trivia tournaments together and he was also a chess champion. I've lost contact with him over the years. If you are or were a JW, or just connected or knowledgeable of the community somehow, maybe you would actually do better on this. I'm really not sure. Still like I said I'll see what I can do later in the week.--T. Anthony 03:41, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Looking at non-English Wikis

I only know a little French and my computer won't recognize Chinese characters. Just as well as I know only a few. (Possibly enough to avoid getting a tattoo with an embarrassing meaning, ha ha, but not much more) Still it's neat looking at them. Like snap on "Suomi" and you get the Finnish article on Xenu, which has a more peaceful looking Volcano. More interesting the Poles are really good on religious sections. Click on the Polska version of Samaritan and you get what is a featured article for them I think. I'd hoped to add some of its pictures to the English version, but couldn't figure how.--T. Anthony 11:11, 29 September 2005 (UTC)


You seem like one of the many folks who adds richness to our Wikipedia. I am Catholic also. As to your above question, wouldn't you just hit their equivalent of "Edit" and copy the link? Or are you having difficulty identifying which pic is which? (I don't govorit--or whatever--polska either ;) ). By the way, where are you getting your Master's? Is it in religious studies? --Dpr 01:03, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

You know it's funny, I'm not as religious as I once was. I still talk about it a good deal though because it's been a major part of my life and is still an interest. I'm sort of in an awkward period, but still active.
Anyway I'm getting my Master's in history. I'm kind of secretive about my life off the Internet. There are people I've talked with online for four years, or more, who do not know what University I attend. However it's a small college in a heavily Republican US state. It was founded between 1880 and 1910. That's more information then I usually give.--T. Anthony 01:19, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
There's one that was founded in 1910 that comes to mind...but probably not it. Haha, anyway, I look forward to chatting again soon. Best, --Dpr 01:29, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Messiah claimants

Hello T. Anthony...

My apologies for my delay in responding...As much as I would really like to correspond more frequently, I am now out of the country indefinitely, and not in the best position (at least at this time) for responding to correspondence, so I can't promise any follow-up to this posting.

Though it is often harrassed by trolls, the site at can be a good place to find information about our Faith. Our Faith's official site is at and speaks to a number of topics (though it does not have a forum for asking questions).

In reply to your question and comments at my user page that "There's a list of messiah claimants and I thought it was odd that they listed Bahá'u'lláh as a Christian messiah claimant. So I moved him to Muslim and then someone else moved him back to Christian saying that was the right one. Which one would he fit or would he fit neither? Apologies for any offense--T. Anthony 07:52, 23 September 2005 (UTC)"...

There is no offense whatsoever...Actually, it would fit appropriately under either page. Although the Bahá'í Faith did come most immediately out of Islam (as an independent religion with its own updated laws and teachings) such as Christianity came out of a Judaic context, in our belief the prophecies of the New Testament and even Old Testament have come true in Bahá'u'lláh's Revelation. He addressed some of these (Christian and Islamic) prophecies in His most important doctrinal work, the Kitáb-i-Íqán (Book of Certitude). In the event you were unaware, there was a great deal of millenial expectation in the mid-1840's from both Christians and Muslims (which is the time the Fore-Runner/Prophet-Herald to Bahá'u'lláh, the Báb (or "Gate") announced His Mission). There is still a colony from the Christian Millerite group which is present at the foot of Mount Carmel, Israel (announcing in German that the Lord is Near), directly beneath the site of the spiritual and administrative headquarters of the Bahá'í Faith, where Bahá'u'lláh, through an Exile of no choice of His own, had formerly pitched His tent.

Brettz9 08:51, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Uh wow. I'd read you were listed among the "missing Wikipedians" so didn't expect any response. We ended up putting him in both groups, but after the guy I was arguing with explained he was a Bahai I agreed either way is fine as you indicate.--T. Anthony 09:00, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

A newbish question about Buddism

"Since the Dalai Lamas are incarnations of Avalokitesvara not The Buddha, isn't this incorrect? Or do you consider the bodhisattva to be the Buddha?" I placed this on Talk:List_of_Buddha_claimants. I am perplexed, hope you can help :P --Friðrik Bragi Dýrfjörð 03:49, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Oops. Thanks for correcting me, I'll take them down. To be honest I was uncertain where they fit.--T. Anthony 03:50, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Comment on Talk:The Twelve Tribes

Hi! I saw your comment on the Twelve Tribes talk page. I think it was me that suggested that you become a member, if this User talk: was your old talk page, and these [2] your anon contributions. Anyways, I put that note on the Twelve Tribes page because a user has come twice and changed the article to remove the harsher criticisms of the group, without giving any reasons. So I left a note on his user page and on the talk page to try to get him to discuss his viewpoint before changing the article. I agree that it may be hard to achieve neutrality on this particular article, and NRMs in general, but hopefully it can be done. Good luck, and see you around! --Kewp (t) 16:41, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Yup that was me, and yup you were why. I don't like associating with that too much because I have a weird suspicion that articles under that identity is why I started getting these "You won a lottery in Sussex and the General of Nigeria wants to talk to you" spams. I'd never gotten such spams before 2005. Maybe they just finally realized I was the last person online never to get one. Anyway somehow I ended up looking at the articles I did under my old "name." A few had gone in interesting directions, but some had not changed at all. African topics tend to be kind of moribund at Wikipedia, but I did start one African topic which grew into something. Well I best be off. See you.--T. Anthony 16:46, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

You May Like To Add These

I have found two websites of New, New Age Sects that you may want to add to the "List of new religious movements" page:

  1. Louix Dempriey
  2. Sri Dava Prakasha

- WikiSceptic

I might do that. However the list isn't "mine", I came to it after it had been around awhile, so feel free to make additions on your own.--T. Anthony 23:16, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Smurf Communism

Original research or not, I for one appreciated your additions to Smurf Communism. The knowledge you displayed of both communism and the Smurfs was quite impressive. -R. fiend 04:12, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I was an odd 11 year old. I was reading High School, or even college, level books on history and watching The Smurfs. Now I should explain that. When it came to history books I didn't read from beginning to end. I just skipped around reading the pages that sounded interesting to me or that I could follow. Still it was an odd mixture so I was wondering about such odd things as "are the Smurfs Communist, anarcho-communist, other?" back in the 1980s.--T. Anthony 04:27, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Eccentric people

Please hold off on adding more people to Category:Notable eccentrics until the related AfD vote is resolved, as it will just mean more work if the category gets deleted afterwards. Even if the category isn't deleted, it will certainly need to be moved to Category:People widely considered eccentric for the same NPOV reasons that the article was. However, thanks for pointing out this useful and interesting category to me! It gives me even more hope for the potential of the eccentricity articles to eventually become very useful, comprehensive, and well-organized pieces. -Silence 03:25, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Oops. I assumed deleting the list would mean we're moving toward category instead. However not to worry I was finished adding names.--T. Anthony 04:48, 23 October 2005 (UTC) I have now taken off most of the ones I added to the category.--T. Anthony 04:54, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for making the article on the convicted rapist Swami Premananda

I had signed a petition asking for his release from prison because I believed that he could perform miracles and that people who could perform miracles must be innocent, as per Ramakrishna's teaching. My conviction changed radically when I found out that the allegations about my guru Sathya Sai Baba (he does more or less the same miracles as Premananda) were true after all. (See my story if you are interested ) A friend of mine told me that Swami Premananda gave him darshan from behind the prison bars. I still consider Premananda's discourses very beautiful and inspiring. I cannot reconcile these two aspects of Premananda. Andries 18:50, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Having never been into the guru world I can't entirely relate, but maybe I can in a way. I remember there was something called "Covenant House" by a Father Bruce Ritter. Everything I'd read it sounded like a good thing that helped a bunch of needy kids. Then he, I believe, confessed it was true that he'd had sex with teenage boys. I think they were of age and consented, or something in least I'm pretty sure this was not a criminal thing, but for a priest it's very wrong even if they're in their twenties. Not sure I have a point, but what good I found in his story I don't think has been negated because the good was about more than just him. Hope you find your way and are wiser for the experience or something.(I'm just winging it her:D)--T. Anthony 23:39, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Ludwig II of Bavaria

Hey there, I didn't mean to revert your edits to the Ludwig II of Bavaria article when I reverted to a vandalism-free version. If you want to put him back in the Notable Eccentrics catagory, feel free to do so. -Maaya 22:56, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. Fact is there is talk of eliminating that category, so I'd rather hold off to see how that works out. Still thanks for the consideration.--T. Anthony 23:00, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Lou de Palingboer

Tried for a start on this, but I'm way out of my league. I don't speak Dutch and English sites have little information. I leave it to anyone who has any idea what this guy was about.--T. Anthony 12:16, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I have a long article in a book about him in Dutch language. The main impediment for writing a good article is the guidelines at Wikipedia:verifiability that say every sentence from a non-English language has to be traslated into English. A lot of work. Andries 12:47, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
I can see how that'd be a problem. Oh well don't put yourself out or anything.--T. Anthony 12:49, 29 October 2005 (UTC)