User talk:Ttonyb1/May 2010 Archives

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2009 events

This cant be right. How come flights which end in everybody dying are listed, yet when a pilot saves the lives of everyone on board in a very difficult situation, it is deleted. That event is fairly notable, and not Us-centric, I live across the atlanic. CatJar (talk) 06:53, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

There was a rather long discussion on the talk page after it happened and it was decided to remove it. ttonyb (talk) 06:56, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Re: Darknight598 and his DJ article

That editor had the nerve to post CSD warnings twice on my talkpage. The first time, I overstruck it, laughed to myself and then CSD nominated the article for CSD again as seen by this DIFF. I reported him at WP:AIV and he's not blocked indefinitely. --Morenooso (talk) 12:59, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

CSD tagging

When tagging articles such as UW Carbone Cancer Center with {{db-copyvio}}, please be prepared to demonstrate how all of the text on the page is copyrighted—this means that, if it comes from multiple pages, you should provide multiple urls. When you first tagged it you had only provided links for the source of half of the text, which is why I had been under the impression that not all of the page was copyvio. rʨanaɢ (talk) 21:02, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

I generally do, it appears as if I may have missed one this time. ttonyb (talk) 23:27, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
No worries. rʨanaɢ (talk) 23:38, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Removal of PROD from K.N.Srivastava

Hello Ttonyb1, this is an automated message from SDPatrolBot to inform you the PROD template you added to K.N.Srivastava has been removed. It was removed by DGG with the following edit summary '(show ref, remove blp tag)'. Please consider discussing your concerns with DGG before pursuing deletion further yourself. If you still think the article should be deleted after communicating with the 'dePRODer,' you may want to send the article to AfD for community discussion. Thank you, SDPatrolBot (talk) 09:46, 3 May 2010 (UTC) (Learn how to opt out of these messages) 09:46, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Random message

Cool signature! A F K When Needed 20:38, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

8-) ttonyb (talk) 20:56, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

my page was deleted

howdy, i was creating a smilebooth page and it was tagged for speedy deletion rightfully so...i had saved the page before adding any valuable info but i applied the {{hangon}} tag and more info was added is there a way i can get this restored? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wchamberlin (talkcontribs)

I would suggest you read WP:COMPANY and WP:RS to make sure the article meets Wikipedia criteria. After you are sure it does, you can just recreate by typing article name and then click on the "Start the Article." ttonyb (talk) 02:51, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Why was Dailyer Nebraskan page deleted?

It is a legitimate newspaper with a strong readership. Why was it deleted. --Gregory32389 (talk) 03:14, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I do not see that it has been deleted. ttonyb (talk) 03:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Sorry I meant, why is it up for speedy deletion. --Gregory32389 (talk) 03:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
The article appears to fail to establish Wikipedia notability. ttonyb (talk) 03:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I believe that it now has enough notability to not be deleted. If not I guess Wikipedia wins. Haha. --Gregory32389 (talk) 04:25, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
The only way anyone wins is for the article to be improved to the point it survives the AfD. This is not an us versus them confrontation. It is simply a channel to improve the quality of Wikipedia articles and content. ttonyb (talk) 04:35, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I understand. I believe that it is up to the AfD standards. --Gregory32389 (talk) 04:50, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I suggest you provide support for this in the AfD. ttonyb (talk) 04:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I believe that I have, the support is in the article. Isn't it the admins job to check the article? Isn't that what they pay the admin the big bucks to do? --Gregory32389 (talk) 04:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Like myself, Admins are volunteers. ttonyb (talk) 04:58, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
That came off more a**hole-ish than I intended and I am sorry. I just meant to be funny. I had a feeling you guys were not paid well,as wikipedia is a non-profit organization. Can you tell me exactly what a GHit is? I'm a little lost on what I need to do to get this up to code for real. --Gregory32389 (talk) 05:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
No problem...really. 8-)
It's more like not paid at is a labor of love for all of us. Ghits = Google hits. I'll make sure you have a Welcome message on your talk page. It has a number of good links to help survive the Wikipedia environment. Also if you have any questions, please feel free to let me know and I'll see if I can give you an answer. Hopefully a good one. 8-) ttonyb (talk) 05:07, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Wikirotimi.jpg for Rotimi Fani-Kayode

Permission forwarded to en.permissions@ from photographer as requested. What happens now? Jkslouth (talk) 09:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)jkslouth

Someone from Volunteer response team will review the OTRS permission and after they confirm its validity, they will remove the notice. It usually takes a couple of days. ttonyb (talk) 14:41, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks Jkslouth (talk) 15:42, 6 May 2010 (UTC)jkslouth

Removing references at The Dailyer Nebraskan

I suggest you don't remove references in the middle of an AfD, because it's basically vandalism. Where do you get off saying they don't exist? On what basis? かんぱい! Scapler (talk) 15:36, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Before you accuse anyone of vandalism, I suggest you read WP:GOODFAITH. I checked the newspaper archives and they do not exist in the archives. Additionally, you should note I actually left the one that does and fixed the format of that ref. So I suggest you take a deep breath next time before you go off and accuse someone of ill intent. Just think, all it would have taken would have been a gentle question as to why, not an over the top response and this conversation would have been much more civilized. ttonyb (talk) 16:04, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I suggest you assume good faith, before saying I was adding non-existent sources. Do you honestly believe that just because references aren't online that they don't exist? Newspapers are notorious for having incomplete archives, and articles are lost all the time. I pulled all these articles from NewsBank Access World News, which my university has a subscription to. And before you claim you were assuming good faith, think about what you were saying of me: that I was making references up and falsifying information, something far more dangerous to the project than mere vandalism. かんぱい! Scapler (talk) 16:16, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
All you needed to do was state they originated from Newsbank access, reinstated the articles, and that would have been it. Do you really think daring someone to remove the articles in the AfD is productive? I understand how you might have looked at my removals and been PO'd, but if you have simply asked for an explanation, it could have been resolved nicer manner. Remember even if I had made a misstep by removing the articles, that should not be used as a justification for escalation to your comments in the AfD. This is a community of which we are all a member. ttonyb (talk) 16:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
I sincerely apologize for jumping to conclusions and almost accusing you of vandalism. I have seen people who nominate articles for deletion blank article improvements before, and when I saw you remove the sources, I jumped right into protection mode. You have been nothing but receptive here, and once again, I truly apologize for my accusation. Friends? かんぱい! Scapler (talk) 16:29, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
If you would like, I will remove my comment from the AfD page, as it seems almost uncivil reading it again. かんぱい! Scapler (talk) 16:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Thank you and I too apologize if I did not handle this as well as I could have. I'll leave it to you if you want to remove the comment. My best to you and I look forward to editing with you in the future. P.S. Yes, friends. 8-) ttonyb (talk) 17:05, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi there Tony

Hey there, so I posted the page a few weeks ago, and it appeared to have first been redirected to the WRONG Salem, (i.e. The Salem News), and now has simply been redirected to a blip on the Oregon page... can you help me with this problem sir?

I am new to wikipedia and it is can be frustrating..

thanks. austin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Synchroblue (talkcontribs) 17:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Excuse me?

Apparently you classified my edit at the article on 1992 as vandalism. To me that seems highly ironic, since I removed vandalism in this edit. The events for May 23rd as they looked before my edit: – A Mafia bomb kills Italian anti-Mafia judge Giovanni Falcone. and RORY CAHIR. Clearly you can see the words "and RORY CAHIR" added after the original message. Some wiseguy probably thought this would be fun. The events for May 23rd as they looked after my edit: – A Mafia bomb kills Italian anti-Mafia judge Giovanni Falcone. As you can see I only removed the words "and RORY CAHIR". I honestly don't see how that counts as vandalism. I trust you made an honest mistake, but I'd like an apology nonetheless. D(r)ead End (talk) 22:50, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

It was clearly a mistake and I have fixed the issue. My best to you. ttonyb (talk) 22:59, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Article on a portal about a technology hub

Hi, Can you please tell why it fails for the category of Web Portal? I am genuinely interested in knowing why this article about an informative portal should fail to qualify. In fact, I just started with the article. There is more relevant information to add. But I'm unable to proceed with further improvements... Raji ect (talk) 06:21, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Ttonyb1, The article has already been deleted. I wrote the article because consistently for the last 2 years this web portal ( has been indexed as number 1 in Google search for the search term Electronic City andElectronic City Bangalore. Also many other reputed websites have cited and linked to this portal. If that is not sufficient notability for web portal, that is ok. Since the article has already been deleted can you please delete the speedy deletion notification in my talk page? Thanks Raji ect (talk) 05:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
The article failed to meet the criteria in WP:WEB. Feel free to remove the notice from your talk page. ttonyb (talk) 15:06, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Drew Fudenberg Article

Please explain why you are moving my references to the links section and adding the unreferencedBLP. Also, I rewrote the initial paragraph using the subject's publications page on his personal website, so I don't understand why you are calling it a copyright violating and deleting it. Heheman3000 (talk) 14:44, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Because you indicated the quote was "not copyrighted, it was copied from elsewhere," when you reinstated it. You did not indicate it was rewritten. I suggest you be more specific in your edit summaries. References are used to support a specific text in articles, a blanket link to a website is not a reference. ttonyb (talk) 15:14, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Hi Tony, I indicated in my edit comment that "I rewrote the section that the other guy deleted" in the edit immediately afterward. I'm sorry if you didn't see that. Also, see the article at Template:Reflist on bibliographical style references. I was following that usage guideline, as it would be unreasonable to put a footnote after every fact about this professor. I appreciate your policing of articles but please understand that your behavior is coming across as very irritating, as it takes much more time to deal with your edits than simply trying to write the article. I ask you to take a look at other biographics of living economics professors such as David K. Levine and Jean Tirole, which I modeled my article on. There are no references there either and no one added an unreferencedBLP. Heheman3000 (talk) 17:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Sorry I missed you belated edit summary and sorry you are getting irritated. The intent is not to irritate you, but rather to help provide a quality Wikipedia article. The use of the non-specific references is typically seen with the use of other specific references. When one see the use of the words "extensive research" and "one of the first" it is probably better to support such sweeping statements with specific references. I also do agree that the unref'd tag was not correct and have changed it to "improve refs" tags. My best to you... ttonyb (talk) 22:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Sounds good. I will add in references for those statements. Heheman3000 (talk) 01:04, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

beer diver

i wish you did not delete beer diver. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beerdiver (talkcontribs) 20:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I did not delete the article, I only nominated it for deletion. It was deleted as a result of it not meeting Wikipedia guidelines for inclusion. ttonyb (talk) 22:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Deleting Steve Mcgarva

I fixed what was needed to be fixed and i request you remove the tag of deletion.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Empreor of Rome (talkcontribs)

There is no deletion tag on the article. ttonyb (talk) 01:13, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

oh, sorry, it said i need to make new references and i did that so it must not be tagged for deletion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Empreor of Rome (talkcontribs) 01:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Jesse B

Why did you want to delete "Jesse B" When I wikipedia other music artists they are found on Wikipedia. What is the difference in importance? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jessebacon (talkcontribs) 03:21, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

The article failed to meet the criteria for Wikipedia notability. ttonyb (talk) 04:28, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Vancouver Memories: My Year Abroad

Hi you marked for sppedy deletion the page "Vancouver memories." This is an important work concerning homestay students experience in Canada. The book describe important issues related to this experience and it is based on 16 years of experience of receiving 67 people from 14 countries. This is a remarquable work of 600 pages provided online by the Wendy Bullen Stephenson one of the most prominent social activist and politically engaged in the community of West End in Vancouver. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndreCruden (talkcontribs) 06:35, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Simply put, the article failed to meet the criteria in WP:NOTBOOK and WP:WEB. ttonyb (talk) 15:17, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Patty Crash article

I was trying to site sources for the artist Patty Crash. She is a credible musician as she has features with Nikki Jean,Gym Class Heroes,Tyga,and The Roots. I am needing some advice on how to approve my article to abide by guidelines of Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ajthemusical (talkcontribs) 04:01, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

The main thing that needs to be accomplished to insure an article survives review is the article has to meet the Wikipedia notability. Take a look at the article WP:BAND and WP:BIO for the criteria. I'll also check your talk page to insure you have a Welcome message. The message has a number of great links to help you create your first article. My best to you... ttonyb (talk) 04:11, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

The Cari and Rob Show deleted?

It is a legitimate radio show with heavy hitting political guests and a rapidly growing audience. Just because the show is relatively young and does not have GNews or GHITS seems a poor reason for deletion. see ( (talk) 16:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC))

Actually, because it is young and does not have GNews or GHITS of substance is a good reason for deletion. This was discussed in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Cari and Rob Show. As indicated, the radio show failed to meet the criteria necessary to establish notability. ttonyb (talk) 17:09, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Julin Jean article deletion flag???

Hi Tony, thanks for the heads up about my article on Julin Jean, but I guess I fail to see why you don't think it shows the subject's notability. I have included several notable film and television productions she has been involved with, as well as a collaboration with the Ying Yang Twins.

I guess I don't understand if it's your subjective opinion that Julin is not a notable article topic, or if I am missing something objective. Thanks

Eatmocake (talk) 23:03, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for fleshing out those reflinks on the Julin Jean page.Eatmocake (talk) 20:55, 20 May 2010 (UTC)


According to the First paragraph 6.1 of it states that "For purposes of neutrality and comprehensiveness, both the BCE/CE and the BC/AD systems should be noted".

Why do you insist on favouring the CE/BCE format over the AD/BC format? The dates are based on the birth of Christ, so I think that AD should take precedence over CE.

In any case, First paragraph 6.1 does not state that CE should be predominant.

In addition, contrary to your charges, my changes were not "Vandalism" (a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia).

—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:30, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct when you state, "In any case, First paragraph 6.1 does not state that CE should be predominant"; however, the format listed below paragraph 6.1 in that article is:

2010 (MMX) is a common year that started on a Friday and is the current year. In the Gregorian calendar, it is the 2010th year of the Common Era or the Anno Domini designation; the 10th year of the 3rd millennium and of the 21st century; and the 1st of the 2010s decade.

Please note the location of AD and CE.
You are welcome to change the format via a discussion on the talk page. Until you get consensus, stop overriding the current format that has been discussed at length by many editors. BTW - there are some that would consider your deliberate attempt to ignore the current consensus and refusal to follow Wikipedia convention by refusing to gain consensus for your format as "a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia."
With that said, the intent is not to exert ownership of the articles or to make you mad. There has been a lot of discussion about the format of recent years and the current format has been reached by many editors reaching discussion. I should emphasize many editors and extensive discussion. Again, I would suggest you start a discussion in the WP:RY talk page to gain consensus for your change. Personally, I have no opinion that favors one way or the other. ttonyb (talk) 02:48, 22 May 2010 (UTC)


Thanks for bringing this article up at AfD. It turns all of the articles created by this user are hoaxes, as he is a sockpuppet of a user currently blocked for creating hoax articles. The user has been blocked, and an administrator is in the process of speedily deleting these articles. GaryColemanFan (talk) 16:50, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

My pleasure... ttonyb (talk) 19:28, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

May 2010

Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from Abdul Mannan (actor). When removing text, please specify a reason in the edit summary and discuss edits that are likely to be controversial on the article's talk page. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the text has been restored, as you can see from the page history. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. You have been constantly removing the article without any discussion of it with me. And then you went and removed the references and tagged it to later be without any references. Which is a false charge. You can't do that. EunSoo (talk) 22:39, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

It was precisely my intention. Those "references" were unrelated to the article and therefore, the removal was valid. Neither reference mentioned the subject of the article. BTW - I have not been removing the article, I have been nominating it for deletion. The nomination has been reviewed by an Admin and they have agreed the article does not meet the criteria needed to establish notability. ttonyb (talk) 22:45, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
No actually it doesn't. Close connection means I know the person, in which I don't. I don't even live in Pakistan. Anywho the mess is sorted out. Cool ;P EunSoo (talk) 23:07, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
If you are referring to the COI tag on the article, your statement about contacting the agency absolutely supports the claim of {{COI}}. To quote from WP:CONFLICT, "Where advancing outside interests is more important to an editor than advancing the aims of Wikipedia, that editor stands in a conflict of interest." ttonyb (talk) 23:24, 22 May 2010 (UTC)"

Le Boy

I don't understand you, what is the problem? (User:Hentzer)

The article failed to establish notability for the club. ttonyb (talk) 03:49, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

The MossiMovies Movie

This article has yet to be given many sources and hard evidence, however if time is given, I'm certain the article will be filled by the end of the month... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richoguy13 (talkcontribs) 10:25, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

You probably should have started this conversation by apologizing for vandalizing my talk page on the 20th of this month. Regardless, if the article is deleted as a result of the AfD, you can reinstate it with the appropriate references anytime thereafter. ttonyb (talk) 15:47, 23 May 2010 (UTC)


Tony, Would you mind moving Blood Money (documentary) by changing the name to BloodMoney in the topic. I can not as my account is not old enough. It seems that BloodMoney Film, Blood Money (documentary) are identical and need not be merged. The one is due to quick delete which is fine. However, the 'documentary' one has the wrong name in the 'subject'. Thanks for your time. W2 Consulting Services (talk) 22:09, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

All done... ttonyb (talk) 22:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Much appreciated. W2 Consulting Services (talk) 22:17, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism to user page...

Tony, You sent me a message about a year ago when I was first getting involved with Wikipedia - thanks for the notes, I learned from them. I have an ex-con that embezzled from my company that we fired and won two different judgments from related to both the embezzlment/fraud/bank fraud/theft and also on slander/libel/dispargment/tortious interference and more.

This convict keeps coming online and changing my User profile. Is there a way to stop it? Or a way to monitor it so I get an email if it is changed? Please advise.

Dallasceo (talk) 22:34, 25 May 2010 (UTC)Chase

Sorry to hear you are having problems. I checked you user and talk page and I do not see any changes other than your edits to create the page. Are you talking about another page? There are a couple of options for you. You can first warn the user on his talk page about the vandalism. After the 4th disruptive edit or sooner if the edits are severe enough, you can report him to an administrator and the editor will most likely be banned for some period of time. If you can show the user has created multiple accounts you can get him banned for sockpupperty. The ban for vandalism will vary from a few days to permanent - it depends on the type of vandalism.
If the vandalism is from a non-registered user, you can request your user and talk page be protected from IP address vandalism. That you mean only registered and verified users could contribute to your pages.
You can set up your watch list to review your talk and user pages when you are logged on, see WP:WATCH. In addition you can set up a RSS feed for use when you are not logged in, see WP:RSS. Let me know if you have any questions and good luck. ttonyb (talk) 03:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
There is another non-Wikipedia option. I have not used this, but you might try using to monitor your user and talk pages.
Update - I see the page you are talking about and I went ahead and requested protection. It may or may not be granted because you did not request it. ttonyb (talk) 04:03, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Chelo61 RfC

Hello, this note is just to tell you that an RfC has begun regarding User:Chelo61. Since you may have been involved with this user, your input is appreciated. Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Chelo61. Thank you. Phearson (talk) 19:20, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

West End Wine Bar

The West End Wine Bar Wikipedia page is intended to inform people of the history of the wine bar, and its significance in the area, not to advertise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaredapedia (talkcontribs) 19:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of the intent, the article appears to be advertising. In addition, it fails to meet the Wikipedia criteria for notability. ttonyb (talk) 19:57, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the introduction

Hi Ttonyb1, I appreciate all the time you have been taking to improve Wikipedia. Thank you for reaching out to me. I am interested in making my contributions as rigorous and well-crafted as possible. As I am new to this, guidance from those seasoned vets is most welcome. Could you please let me know whether the article still lacks sufficient links and citations? Does Wiki prefer internal links? I have links to other vetted sources, such as the New York Times,IMDB, and high-end news organizations. Please do let me know if you have suggestions for improvement. Thank you, Creativeinsight (talk) 22:57, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Welcome aboard. The key to creating a good article in Wikipedia is establishing notability. In this case you are trying to establish notability via WP:BIO or WP:ENTERTAINER. Notability is supported by the use of reliable sources. As I look as the article it is still light when it comes to references and some of the references are not reliable. The IMDB and Linkedin references are not reliable - they are not independent of the article subject. The NYTimes article is really not an article, but only a listing. The subject needs "non-trivial" coverage that is both extensive in coverage in the article and in quantity. The same goes for the LA Times article - it is not "non-trivial". Wikipedia references are not considered as good references for an article, but can be used as inline links.
Let me know if you have any other questions and happy editing. ttonyb (talk) 01:10, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

eMail/Alert from you

Tony---i was adding a link to the Frank Sinatra page and you sent me an alert saying that I was vandalizing the page. I am assuming that you did not look at the link I was adding....No worries... I run an informational italian american website---that has a strong focus on frank--which is why it is called This is an active community of italian americans and other european americans dedicated to rpeservign history, culture, etc... please advise... chris Swoonatra (talk) 16:17, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Gray Mackenzie


are you sure, that "Gray Mackenzie" is correct? I believe that the "a" is wrong, it´s not like the name on the homepage. --Nawgen (talk) 11:25, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Art Linkletter

Looks like WP:RY needs an update, or I need to learn how to write two paragraphs in languages I don't speak to qualify Art for the 2010 page. How sad, I doubt I'll do any more editing in WP ever again. Kidshare (talk) 19:33, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that, I am sure your contributions will be missed. ttonyb (talk) 19:38, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Joe DeGuardia

Ambox warning pn.svg

An article that you have been involved in editing, Joe DeGuardia, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joe DeGuardia. Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. jmcw (talk) 21:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)