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March 30

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Category:Historic United States federal legislation

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. - TexasAndroid 19:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Delete. The category states, "These articles concern United States federal legislation that are of historic significance, but are no longer in complete effect." However, few statutes are in complete effect as many get modified over time. I think I understand the intent of this category, however. I just can't find a way to express it in a rename. Frankly, I'm afraid there's really no true reason to have this category and there's no useful standard by which articles could be added. Therefore, the articles in this category ought to be recategorized into Category:United States federal legislation or one of that category's subcategories (such as Category:United States federal labor legislation. —Markles 01:19, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Migratory birds

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The result of the debate was no consensous. - TexasAndroid 19:19, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Categories Migratory birds (Eastern hemisphere) and Migratory birds (Western hemisphere) should, I feel, be renamed. Many species in either hemisphere are to some extent migratory, but with some resident populations. These categories on the other hand appear to have been set up to contain only those species which are obligate long-distance (?trans-equatorial) migrants (i.e. Europe to sub-Saharan Africa or North to South America). The hemisphere aspect to the name is also misleading as it leaves northern Asian breeders migrating to south/south-east Asia without a category. Better terminology exists, and we should base our category names on this instead. SP-KP 23:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree completely with this, the cats are unecessary and difficult to define. jimfbleak 06:08, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Neotropical and Palearctic Migrants are possible alternatives but what distance qualifies as migration as opposed to local movement is arguable. Shyamal 06:34, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, so I propose Category:Transequatorial migrant birds as our top-level category, with three subcategories for the New World, Europe/Africa and Asia/Australasia. SP-KP 17:36, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know whether any cats will be satisfactory. The transequ will eliminate near arctic duck, goose and swan species like Pink-footed Goose and Whooper Swan, despite their being totally long distance migrants, and the subdivs will create problems for eg Northern Pintail which winters on both sides of the Atlantic with indistinguishable populations. What about the New World passerines, where only a handful of species cross the equator? Ruby-throated Hummingbird is a virtually total long-distance migrant, but like dozens of other species would be excluded. Just dump all the migration cats, its too difficult to define. jimfbleak 12:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Renaming of categories after TV naming convention

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The result of the debate was Rename all. - TexasAndroid 18:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Based on Wikipedia:Naming conventions (television) several hundred pages have been renamed. However several shows - listed below - have categories associated with them that also need to be renamed according to the convention. None of the items in the category have been removed or altered. If you know of any other shows please add them here. --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 22:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rename as nominator --Reflex Reaction (talk)• 22:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Travel writers by nationality to Category:Travel writers

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The result of the debate was Merge. - TexasAndroid 19:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This adds nothing but another thing to click to. It makes seeing what is available in Category:Travel writers more difficult and thereby discourages subcategorisation of that category. Merge Bhoeble 22:37, 30 March 2006 (UTC).[reply]

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Category:Bestselling children's books

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The result of the debate was Delete. - TexasAndroid 19:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Poorly defined and impractical category, currently only contains Harry Potter. Could possibly be made into a list (if someone can be bothered). the wub "?!" 22:09, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Steven Seagal

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The result of the debate was delete. - TexasAndroid 19:09, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My original close of No Consensous was incorrect, as has been pointed out to me. For some reason my eyes kept skipping past the Delete opinion from Her Pegship below. Whatever. The final tally should be 4 delete to 2 keep, with one of the keeps being weak. That's a delete, not no consensous, so this changes. - TexasAndroid 14:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We don't categorize films by actors, nor do we create categories to duplicate "what links here"; the creator of this category, who has also reposted the CFD'd "Category:Seagaliana" a few times, added it to articles such as victim, chokehold, and Tibetan Buddhism. Useless. Postdlf 20:12, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep please compare to Category:Hilary Duff, etc. on teh page Category:Categories by person. maybe I needed a littel guidance as to which articles go in, but now i think its streamlined. thanks for the help from User:Postdlf, User:Syrthiss and User:Halloween jack on getting it straight. this is an honest, useful contribution. --Ghetteaux 20:23, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Hilary Duff needs to be streamlined as well, but at least that exists as a parent for her album subcategory, and eventually song subcategory. Most of the people categories are for musicians, because we categorize albums by musician, or author, because we categorize books by author, or on people who are such significant topics that they have a number of related articles about themselves and their endeavors (such as Category:George W. Bush or Category:Bill Gates). None of those apply here. Postdlf 20:25, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why not? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just wondering what the logic is. As something of a fan of "navigation by way of category" I don't see any problem with having a category such as this, provided it only includes the films/shows he starred in. The category creator may be using it the wrong way, but isn't the idea fundamentally sound if there's enough relevant articles to be so categorised? If it's OK for a musician or author (and it most certainly is) why isn't it OK for an actor? --kingboyk 20:30, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus has been against categorizing films by actor, and a number of them have been deleted (see, e.g., Nicole Kidman films). My rationale is that while movies only have one director (exceptions such as Four Rooms and Sin City notwithstanding), they have many actors, and too many categories uselessly flood an article. Not quite as bad as what would happen if Tibetan Buddhism were categorized by every known practitioner, but still not a good result. There's furthermore no meaningful way to draw a dividing line as to when an actor's role in a film has become a defining trait of that film, in the manner that a book is defined in part by who wrote it, or an album by who recorded it. But let's see what other voters say... Postdlf 20:56, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes indeed, you make some excellent points. User:BD2412 makes some excellent points too so I shall abstain, but thanks for answering my question. --kingboyk 21:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep. There are some instances where the star of a group of films is about the only characteristic that people associate with those films. Seriously, how many Steven Seagal films can you identify with a director (other than the films he has directed himself). Also, he has directed a few of his own films, and since there is certainly a consensus to categorize films by director, a Steven Seagal category (or perhaps a Category:Films directed by Steven Seagal) would be appropriate for that. With the wives and the energy drink, I find that to be enough to justify this category. On the other hand, I'm biased, as Ghetteaux is like a brother to me. Cheers! BD2412 T 21:13, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • If you cut out the unencyclopedic lists of ingredients, Steven Seagal's Lightning Bolt is only a very brief paragraph that could easily be merged into his article. Steven Seagal Enterprises (itself just a brief article) apparently only exists to market the energy drink, so I don't see the justification for that existing separately either. Which means we're left categorizing films by actor, or justifying categories for every individual who has relatives with articles. Postdlf 01:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • yes, it is true that BDAmbramson and I are "old school homies," but I think he knows what he is talking about. reeally, this is just a matter of personal taste, as regards use of the category feature. if you are looking for a quick way to navigate all content for a particular phenom, this a great feature. "de gustibus . . ." --Ghetteaux 12:22, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Postdlf Piccadilly 07:05, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...non disputandum". Delete per nom. Her Pegship 01:34, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Carlossuarez46 20:25, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Finnish demoscene musicians

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The result of the debate was Delete. - TexasAndroid 19:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Too specific; there isn't even a demoscene musicians category yet! Use Category:Demosceners until there are enough to split off a Demoscene musicians category. --Vossanova 18:43, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Paris Entertainment to Category:Paris culture

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The result of the debate was Merge. - TexasAndroid 18:15, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Barely populated; incorrect name structure; incorrect capitalisation; not a standard category type as the usual practice is to have Category:Paris culture and more detailed subcategories for things like music. delete Merchbow 18:04, 30 March 2006 (UTC).[reply]

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Category:Paris cemeteries to Category:Cemeteries in Paris

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The result of the debate was Merge. - TexasAndroid 18:16, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to match category:Cemeteries in France etc. Merchbow 17:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC).[reply]

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Category:Chronology to Category:Timelines

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The result of the debate was Withdrawn. - TexasAndroid 17:30, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Chronology and Timeline are the same thing so there is no need for separate categories. Timeline seems to be the term most used and in any case Category:Chronology is misnamed (should be plural) so I suggest merging them to Category:Timelines. JeffW 17:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Not the same thing at all, and the existing name is correct. Category:Chronology organises articles about specific periods of time, whereas Category:Timeslines contains timelines. CalJW 20:56, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Response The main article for a category ought to be definitive of what should be in that category and Chronology says
      • "Chronology is the science of locating events in time. An arrangement of events, from either earliest to latest or the reverse, is also called a chronology or, particularly when involving graphical elements, a timeline (for an example see Detailed logarithmic timeline)".
    • I don't seeanything there about articles being only about specific periods of time. And every page I look at under cat:Chronology is a timeline. --JeffW 23:36, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • For the record, the Category:History by period is the category for specific periods of time. --Sean Brunnock 13:50, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep category:Chronology contains all the by year album, single, film and book categories and much else. The articles in those are not timelines. Piccadilly 07:07, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Withdraw You are both right. There is more to this category than timelines and cat:Timelines is already a subcat. The problem is that there are timeline pages in Chronology that should be moved to the subcategory and that I can fix without bothering all of you --JeffW 14:29, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Oklahoma State Cowboys teams to Category:Oklahoma State University athletics

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The result of the debate was Rename. - TexasAndroid 18:17, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Per naming conventions of other college athletic teams, e.g. Category:Oklahoma Sooners or Category:Nebraska Cornhuskers. jareha (comments) 17:01, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Schools and colleges in Cheltenham to Category:Schools in Cheltenham

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Category:Schools and colleges in Gloucester to Category:Schools in Gloucester

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The result of the debate was Speedy deleted. - TexasAndroid 17:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not the way things are done. Schools and higher education institutions are only put in the same category at education level. (Note that in the UK there are many schools called "College", eg Eton College, but for purposes of classification they are schools. Rename Carina22 16:26, 30 March 2006 (UTC).[reply]

  • On second thoughts, Delete both These only exist because of the intervention of kingboyk mentioned in the nomination below, which ignored and overruled the conventional system. County level is quite detailed enough for geographical categorisation of English schools and it is all that has been done up to now with the exception of largest handful of cities - a group to which Cheltenham and Gloucester are not close to belonging. Carina22 16:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep because they are very important subcategories of Category:Cheltenham and Category:Gloucester. Renaming is fine by me in principle, but at the current time there aren't really enough blue linked schools and colleges in Cheltenham and Gloucester to justify having seperate categories for schools in Cheltenham, colleges in Cheltenham, etc. This is all about creating self contained category groups for these towns and has nothing to do with politics so I'd be grateful if you'd tone down the personal comments, thank you. --kingboyk 16:51, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Further comment. I concede that University of Gloucestershire probably doesn't belong in the schools/college category, which may have been the catalyst for this renaming proposal. I maintain however that it's not logically incorrect to include sixth form colleges and colleges of further education in the same by-town category as schools. --kingboyk 16:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • See further down where I have withdrawn the related proposal and for comments on how it seems to be the norm to categorise by both type and location. I therefore believe the deletion proposal is without foundation; thoughts and comments awaited on whether to rename or not. --kingboyk 17:39, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete It isn't normal to subcategorise by the norm to categorise by both type and location regardless of the size of the location. Cheltenham and Gloucester are too small for this. Some might say they shouldn't have categories at all. Merchbow 17:46, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - articles on school, colleges etc could be put under Category:Education in Gloucester or Category:Education in Cheltenham; or, failing that, directly under Category:Gloucester and Category:Cheltenham so long as those categories are not too big. They could still be sorted by type by county. TheGrappler 18:08, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete There was no precedent or consensus for the categorisation as I named it, although there is precedent for (and a good logical argument for) sorting by locality. I have therefore recategorised pre precedent and withdraw my opposition. I've recategorised relevant articles and speedy deleted the categories listed here per CSD G7 (User:Carina22 made a non-janitorial edit to the Cheltenham cat but also nominated it for deletion). --kingboyk 11:38, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Indian political party leaders

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The result of the debate was Rename. - TexasAndroid 18:17, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I propose spelling out two abbreviations—

Category:BJP leaders → Category:Bharatiya Janata Party leaders

Category:INC leaders → Category:Indian National Congress leaders

— to avoid any potential ambiguity.- choster 16:21, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Grammar schools in Gloucestershire and Category:Public schools in Gloucestershire

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The result of the debate was Withdrawn. - TexasAndroid 19:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seems more logical and less elitist to organise by geography. Category:Schools in Gloucestershire already exists with at present 2 geographical subcategories created by me for Cheltenham and Gloucester. --kingboyk 15:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Tourism in Paris → Category:Visitor attractions in Paris

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The result of the debate was no consensous. - TexasAndroid 18:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suggesting change as per naming style used at Category:Visitor attractions by city. -- Longhair 10:24, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Tourism sites in Singapore → Category:Visitor attractions in Singapore

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The result of the debate was Rename. - TexasAndroid 18:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suggesting change as per naming style used at Category:Visitor attractions by city. -- Longhair 10:21, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:USAF Thunderbird to Category:United States Air Force Thunderbirds pilots

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The result of the debate was Rename. - TexasAndroid 18:19, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

changes USAF from acronym to full name, change "Thunderbird" to "Thunderbird pilot" - little more specific Nobunaga24 05:59, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Scottish MPs to Category:Members of the pre-1707 Scottish Parliament

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The result of the debate was Rename. - TexasAndroid 18:20, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is a follow up to the nomination of category:English MPs which someone made a week ago. The category needs a name which reflects what it is for (ie not MPs who of Scottish ethnicity or sit for Scottish constituencies) and it also needs to be distinct for Category:Members of the Scottish Parliament, which is for the current Parliament, which was created a few years ago after nearly 300 years during which Scotland didn't have a parliament. Carina22 04:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC).[reply]

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Category:American Television Stations with Logo Galleries

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The result of the debate was Delete. - TexasAndroid 19:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's appropriate to categorize articles on the basis of internal Wikipedia matters like whether they have logo galleries or not...and even if consensus here is that it's worth keeping, it would still have to be renamed for capitalization to Category:American television stations with logo galleries. I suggest deletion, but I'm willing to listen to a convincing argument otherwise. Bearcat 03:47, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Freeways to Category:Freeways and motorways

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The result of the debate was Rename to Category:Limited-access roads. - TexasAndroid 19:17, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Change name to take into account European usage. SilkTork 00:18, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Freeway and motorway are the same thing - these are roads that have no traffic lights, crossings or private access. Expressway is something different. Expressway is equal to a dual carraigeway in which traffic lights, crossings and private access is allowable. It may be the case that articles within the category need sorting if they are talking about non-freeway roads. SilkTork 08:22, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
According to Motorway, "Traffic lights are not permitted (except at toll booths and certain interchanges)". That's like an expressway here in Michigan, and unsurprisingly there already is the subcategory Category:Freeways and expressways in Michigan. The category title should describe what's actually in this category. --William Allen Simpson 23:44, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Since there are so many terms used (highway, freeway, expressway, motorway, etc.), couldn't they all be grouped under one general term which would describe them all, e.g. "Limited access roads"? --Vossanova 20:00, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I hear what you are saying. But the terms Freeway and Motorway mean exactly that, and are readily understood in English speaking countries. Limited access is not a term used in Europe and people would not think of a motorway. SilkTork 23:13, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
After reading most of the pages, I'd say you are incorrect (at least as far as the current documentation). That's not what the pages describe. The words you are using are very UK specific, not "European" at all. It's my brother that's the civil engineer, and I can ask him this weekend, but I'm changing my vote to agree with Vossanova. --William Allen Simpson 23:44, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Freeway is USA, Canada and Australia, Motorway is nearly all other English speaking countries. Other names used, such as Autoroute or Autobahn are for non-English countries, and people from these countries when being taught English are taught either Freeway or Motorway. Limited Access is a term that is not used in the current definitions of either Freeway: "A freeway ... is a multi-lane highway (road) designed for high-speed travel by large numbers of vehicles, and having no traffic lights, stop signs, nor other regulations requiring vehicles to stop for cross-traffic." or Motorway: "A motorway (in the United Kingdom, Ireland, New Zealand and some other Commonwealth nations) is both a type of road and a classification. Motorways are highways designed to carry a large volume of traffic where a normal road would not suffice or would be unsafe, usually between cities. In the UK they are predominantly dual-carriageway roads, usually with three lanes in each direction, although four-lane and two-lane carriageways are also common, and all have grade-separated access." Though it may sound like I am opposing the suggestion, I am not. I like the idea of having a universal term to cover Freeway and Motorway. I am just not sure that Limited Access is the right term - just as I am not sure that Freeway by itself is the right term. Some expressway routes in USA and dual carraigeway routes in the UK are limited access, but do have crossings and traffic lights so do not qualify as Freeways or Motorways. We could debate various terms to cover what a Freeway/Motorway actually is and decide that Freeway is the most appropriate, which brings us back to the start. So, I'm not actually objecting to alternative terms, just expressing strong doubt that Limited access roads is a clearer term than Freeways and motorways. SilkTork 08:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps make all the various names redirect to a Category:Limited-access roads, if "limited access" is what they all share in common. (By itself, "Limited-access roads" seems a category not likely to be on the tips of people's brains.) Suggest hyphenation is used, as the category would not be addressing access roads with limitations. Regards, David Kernow 00:47, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • As per SilkTork above, "Limited-access roads" or the like too obscure. Choose one of "Freeways", "Highways", "Motorways", etc. and have all others redirect to it (and perhaps add brief explanation at top of page)...?  Regards, David Kernow 17:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I believe choosing one of the commonly used terms will just lead to more confusion and arguing. A term like "limited-access roads" is neutral because it's not commonly used, and is intended to be more of a definition than a term. --Vossanova 19:23, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, if the choice became "Limited-access roads" plus subcategories "Freeways", "Highways", etc or delete, I'd vote for "Limited-access roads" plus subcategories. Regards, David Kernow 18:32, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment unfortunately different terms seem to be used for a single concept; not just British-USA difference, but regionally in the USA Expressway, Throughway (Thruway), Freeway, etc. and even some in California would not regard any toll-road (Turnpike someplaces) a Freeway regardless of its limitation of access. Carlossuarez46 20:23, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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