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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 28 October 2021 [1].

Turtle

[edit]
Nominator(s): LittleJerry (talk) and Chiswick Chap 19:56, 26 September 2021 (UTC) [reply]

This article has improved since the last time it was nominated. It has gone though a peer review and the problems from last time should be taken care of. LittleJerry (talk) 19:56, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Realmaxxver

[edit]

Making some comments soon. Realmaxxver (talk) 21:18, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  • "There are 360 recent (after 1500 AD) species of turtles and include tortoises and terrapins. They are widely distributed across the world's continents and oceans." the "(After 1500 AD)" seems a bit redundant; change to "There are 360 recent species of turtles that include tortoises and terrapins; which are widely distributed across the world's continents and oceans."
Some recent species have gone extinct as you will see in the conservation section. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtles are the only vertebrates with a complete shell. It is formed mainly of bone;" to "Turtles are the only vertebrates with a complete shell. It consists mainly of bone;"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtles are ectotherms—commonly called cold-blooded—meaning that their internal temperature varies according to the ambient environment." the note about ectotherms being referred to as cold-blooded can be put in between parenthesis, like "Turtles are ectotherms (commonly called cold-blooded), meaning that their internal temperature varies according to the ambient environment."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtles are generally opportunistic omnivores and feed mainly on plant material and sedentary animals." "feed mainly" should be swapped, like "Turtles are generally opportunistic omnivores and mainly feed on plant material and sedentary animals."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtle habitats around the world are being destroyed. As a result of these pressures, many species are threatened with extinction." the two sentences can be merged; "Turtle habitats around the world are being destroyed; and as a result of these pressures, many species are threatened with extinction."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:44, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Naming and Etymology

  • "The name of the order, Testudines /tɛˈstjuːdɪniːz/, is based on the Latin word for tortoise, testudo.[4] It was coined by German naturalist August Batsch in 1788.[1]" change to "The name of the order, Testudines (pronounced as /tɛˈstjuːdɪniːz/), is based on the Latin word for tortoise, testudo;[4] and it was coined by German naturalist August Batsch in 1788.[1]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk)

Anatomy

Size

  • "The largest living species of turtle, and fourth largest reptile, is the leatherback turtle which can reach over 2.7 m (8 ft 10 in) in length and weigh over 500 kg (1,100 lb).[9]" this can be reworded to "The largest living species of turtle is the leatherback turtle which can reach over 2.7 m (8 ft 10 in) in length and weigh over 500 kg (1,100 lb). The leatherback turtle is also the fourth largest reptile.[9]"
I think the current wording sounds better. LittleJerry (talk) 11:24, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Shell

  • Move the top picture to the right and the bottom picture to the right; the placement of the first picture makes the 'Main template look a little awkward.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 12:23, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It is primarily made of bone, and consists of two parts, the carapace which usually contains 50–60 bones and covers the back of the animal while the plastron has 7–11 bones and covers the belly." change to "It is primarily made of bone, and consists of two parts; the carapace which usually contains 50–60 bones and covers the back of the animal, while the plastron only has 7–11 bones and covers the belly."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:27, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They are connected by lateral extensions of the plastron. The carapace is fused with the...." "...while the plastron has 7–11 bones and covers the belly. They are connected by lateral extensions of the plastron." split the paragraph into two paragraphs inbetween these sentences.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:27, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The development is signaled locally by fibroblast growth factors including FGF10.[15]" → "The development of the shell is signaled locally by fibroblast growth factors that include FGF10.[15]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:27, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The outer surface of the shell is covered in epidermal scales known as scutes which are made of keratin, the same substance that makes up human hair and fingernails." link to human hair
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:27, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure where "fingernails" should link to though. Realmaxxver (talk) 10:42, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtle scutes usually interlock like mosaic tiles, though in some species, like the hawksbill sea turtle, the scutes on the carapace can overlap.[18]" change "though" to "but"
Done LittleJerry (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The leatherback turtle has hardly any bones in its shell, which instead consists of thick connective tissue covered in leathery skin.[20]" → "The leatherback turtle hardly has any bones in its shell; instead it consists of thick connective tissue covered in leathery skin.[20]"
Done LittleJerry (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first use of Ref 18 is a bit redundant per WP:REPCITE

Head and neck

  • "...allowing for greater muscle mass and stronger bites.[23] Turtles that are carnivorous or durophagous..." split the first paragraph into two paragraphs inbetween these sentences
Done LittleJerry (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The necks of turtles are highly flexible, possibly to compensate for their rigid shells. Some species, like sea turtles, have short necks while others, such as snake-necked turtles, have very long ones." link to sea turtles
linked in shell section. LittleJerry (talk) 01:01, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Limbs and locomotion

Linked it shell. LittleJerry (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtles are slow-moving on land, because of their heavy shells; a desert tortoise moves at only 0.22–0.48 km/h (0.14–0.30 mph)." → "Because of their heavy shells, turtles are slow-moving on land. For example, a desert tortoise moves at only 0.22–0.48 km/h (0.14–0.30 mph). "
Done LittleJerry (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The limbs of turtles are adapted for various means of locomotion and habits; most have five toes." → "The limbs of turtles are adapted for various means of locomotion and habits; as most turtles have five toes."
Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Aquatic turtles have more flexible legs and longer toes with webbing, getting them thrust in the water." replace "getting" with "giving"; "Aquatic turtles have more flexible legs and longer toes with webbing, giving them more thrust in the water."
Done LittleJerry (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Sea turtles and the pig-nosed turtle are the most specialized for aquatic locomotion." → "The sea and pig-nosed turtles are the most specialized for aquatic locomotion."
Don't like that phrasing. LittleJerry (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Sea turtles such as Chelonia mydas rotate the front limb flippers like a bird's wings so as generate a propulsive force on both the upstroke and on the downstroke." add "the" before Chelonia mydas; "Sea turtles such as the Chelonia mydas rotate the front limb flippers like a bird's wings as to generate a propulsive force on both the upstroke and on the downstroke."
Done LittleJerry (talk) 22:15, 2 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sences

  • "There is possibly a fourth type of cone that detects ultraviolet; hatchling sea turtles respond experimentally to ultraviolet light" → "There is possibly a fourth type of cone that detects ultraviolet; as hatchling sea turtles respond experimentally to ultraviolet light"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 11:12, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Sea turtles orient themselves on land by night, using visual features detected in dim light; they use their eyes in all conditions from clear surface water to muddy coasts and the darkness of the deep ocean, and with their heads above water." make this sentence into two; "Sea turtles orient themselves on land by night, using visual features detected in dim light. They use their eyes in all conditions from clear surface water to muddy coasts and the darkness of the deep ocean, and with their heads above water."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 11:12, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtles have no ear openings; the eardrum is surrounded by a bony otic capsule," → "Turtles have no ear openings; instead the eardrum is surrounded by a bony otic capsule,"
Changed in a different way. LittleJerry (talk) 12:29, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They have higher hearing thresholds compared to other reptiles, reaching up to 500 Hertz in air, while underwater they are more attuned to lower frequencies.[35]" → "They have higher hearing thresholds compared to other reptiles, reaching up to 500 Hertz in air, but while underwater they are more attuned to lower frequencies.[35]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:13, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Experiments on green sea turtles showed they could learn to respond to a selection of different odorant chemicals (such as triethylamine and cinnamaldehyde) detected by olfaction in the nose." → " Experiments on green sea turtles showed they could learn to respond to a selection of different odorant chemicals such as triethylamine and cinnamaldehyde, which were detected by olfaction in the nose."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:13, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Breathing

  • "They have multiple lateral and medial chambers, the numbers of which vary between taxa, and one terminal chamber.[44]" "the numbers of which vary between taxa" could be put in parenthesis
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:43, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the liver is attached to the right lung by the ventral mesopneumonium, and the stomach is directly attached to the left lung," replace "ventral mesopneumonium" with "ventral root"; add a semicolon after mesopneumonium; "the liver is attachted to the right lung by the ventral root; and the stomach is directly attached to the left lung,"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:43, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Immersion periods vary between a minute and an hour depending on the species." → "Depending on the species, immersion periods can vary from a minute to an hour.[46]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:43, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Circulation

  • "The turtle cardiopulmonary system has both structural and physiological adaptations that distinguish it from other vertebrates." → "The turtle's cardiopulmonary system has both structural and physiological adaptations that distinguish it from other vertebrates."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:43, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtles are capable of longer periods of anaerobic respiration than many other vertebrates." → "Turtles are capable of periods of anaerobic respiration longer than many other vertebrates"
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:49, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Osmoregulation

  • "In sea turtles, the bladder is singular while in most freshwater turtles, it is bi-lobed.[50]" → "In sea turtles, the bladder is singular; but in most freshwater turtles, it is bi-lobed.[50]"
I don't that that phasing. LittleJerry (talk)
  • "When on land, sea turtles may appear to be "crying".[53]" → "Because of this, sea turtles may appear to be "crying" when on land.[53]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:08, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thermoregulation

  • "Turtles, like other reptiles, have a limited ability to regulate their body temperature; this varies between species, and with body size" → "Turtles, like other reptiles, have a limited ability to regulate their body temperature; this ability varies between species, and with body size"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:08, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "On Grand Terre Island, food is scarce inland, but shade is scarce near the coast," → "On Grand Terre Island, food is scarce inland, but shade is also scarce near the coast,"
Shade isn't scarce inland as your wording would imply. LittleJerry (talk) 21:08, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The largest, the leatherback, can swim in the waters off Nova Scotia which may be as cool as 8 °C (46 °F); their body temperature has been measured at up to 12 °C (54 °F) warmer than the surrounding water." → "The largest turtle, the leatherback, can swim in the waters off Nova Scotia which may be as cold as 8 °C (46 °F); while their body temperature has been measured at up to 12 °C (54 °F), warmer than the surrounding water."
I don't think the second half is correct. Chiswick Chap?

Behavior Diet

  • "Generally lacking speed and agility, most turtles feed either on plant material or on sedentary animals like mollusks," → "Generally lacking speed and agility, most turtles either feed on plant material, or on sedentary animals like mollusks,"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:12, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Some species, such as the African helmeted turtle and snapping turtles, eat fish, amphibians, reptiles (including other turtles), birds and mammals; they may take them by ambush but also scavenge.[55]" "Some species, such as the African helmeted turtle and snapping turtles, eat fish, amphibians, reptiles (including other turtles), birds and mammals. They may take them by ambush but also scavenge.[55]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:12, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The diet of an individual within a species may change with age, sex, and season, and may differ between populations." "The diet of an individual within a species may vary between age, sex, and season, and may also differ between populations."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:12, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Communication

  • "The oblong turtle is particularly vocal; producing sounds described as clacks, clicks, squawks, hoots, various kinds of chirps, wails, hooos, grunts, growls, blow bursts, howls and drum rolls.[63] → "The oblong turtle has a particularly large vocal range; producing sounds described as ranging from clacks, clicks, squawks, hoots, various kinds of chirps, wails, hooos, grunts, growls, blow bursts, howls and drum rolls.[63]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 22:21, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Migration

  • "Turtles are the only reptiles that migrate long distances, up to thousands of kilometers in marine species; some non-marine turtles such as species of Geochelone (terrestrial), Chelydra (freshwater), and Malaclemys (estuarine) migrate seasonally over much shorter distances," → "Turtles are the only reptiles that migrate long distances. In marine species, they can travel up to thousands of kilometers, while in some non-marine turtles such as the species of Geochelone (terrestrial), Chelydra (freshwater), and Malaclemys (estuarine) migrate seasonally over much shorter distances,"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:17, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Another possible cue is the orientation of the earth's magnetic field at the natal beach;" Is it supposed to be "cue" or "technique"?
Cue. LittleJerry (talk) 20:17, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Defense

  • "Other tactics include threat displays and, in the case of Bell's hinge-back tortoise, playing dead." I suggest changing this to "Other tactics include threat displays and, in the case of Bell's hinge-back tortoise, turtles can play dead." per WP:SEAOFBLUE
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Intelligence

  • "In the laboratory, turtles (Pseudemys nelsoni) can learn novel tasks and have demonstrated a long-term memory of at least 7.5 months.[73]" "Pseudemys nelsoni" links to Florida red-bellied cooter; so change to "In the laboratory, the Florida red-bellied cooter could learn novel tasks and has demonstrated a long-term memory of at least 7.5 months.[73]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reproduction

  • "In green sea turtles, females generally outnumber males, and as a result, most males copulate with multiple partners throughout their lifespan.[77]" → "In green sea turtles, females generally outnumber males; and as a result, most males copulate with multiple partners throughout their life.[77]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:17, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Courtship

  • "Courtship varies between species, and with habitat; it is often elaborate in aquatic species, both marine and freshwater, but minimal in the semi-aquatic mud turtles and snapping turtles." this single sentence should be two; "Courtship varies between species, and with habitat. It is often elaborate in aquatic species, both marine and freshwater, but minimal in the semi-aquatic mud turtles and snapping turtles."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:17, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Eggs

  • "The number of eggs laid varies from 10 to over 100 depending on the species." → "Depending on the species, the number of eggs laid can vary from 10 to over 100."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:17, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "There is experimental evidence that the embryos of Mauremys reevesii can move around inside their eggs to select the optimal temperature for development, thus influencing their sexual destiny.[90]" replace "Mauremys reevesii" with chinese pond turtle.
The article title is the scientific name. LittleJerry (talk) 21:17, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Some species remain in the nest for longer, be it for overwintering or to wait for rain to soften the soil for them to dig out.[12]" → "Some species remain in the nest for longer, possibly from overwintering or to wait for rain to soften the soil for them to dig out.[12]"
I don't see the need for "possibly". LittleJerry (talk)

Lifespan

  • "a Galápagos tortoise collected by Charles Darwin in 1835 died in 2006, living for at least 176 years though most wild turtles do not reach that age." add a semicolon after "living for at least 176 years" → "a Galápagos tortoise collected by Charles Darwin in 1835 died in 2006, living for at least 176 years; although most wild turtles do not reach that age."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:17, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...allowing researchers to estimate how long they have lived;[93] they age very slowly.[94]" → "...allowing researchers to estimate how long they have lived;[93] they also age very slowly.[94]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 21:17, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Evolution Fossil history

  • "In 1914, Jan Versluys proposed that bony plates in the dermis, osteoderms, fused to the ribs beneath them," → "In 1914, Jan Versluys proposed that bony plates in the dermis and osteoderms, fused to the ribs beneath them,"
Clarified. LittleJerry (talk) 23:00, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The oldest known members of the Pleurodira lineage are the Platychelyidae, known from the Late Jurassic." → "The oldest known members of the Pleurodira lineage are the Platychelyidae, from the Late Jurassic."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 23:00, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The oldest known softshelled turtles and sea turtles appear during the Early Cretaceous.[99][100]" → "The oldest known softshelled turtles and sea turtles appeared during the Early Cretaceous.[99][100]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 23:00, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

External phylogeny

  • "It was later suggested that the anapsid-like turtle skull may be due to reversion rather than to anapsid descent.[104]" "skull" should be plural
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 23:00, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Internal phylogeny

  • "Diversity increased steadily in their analysis, speciation occurring at a greater rate than extinction," → "Diversity increased steadily in their analysis, with speciation occurring at a greater rate than extinction,"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 23:02, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Difference between the two suborders

  • "Turtles in the two groups differ in the way the neck is retracted for protection." → "The two groups differ in the way the neck is retracted for protection."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 23:00, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Distribution

  • "The world regions richest in (non-marine) turtle species are the Amazon basin," → "The world regions richest in non-marine turtle species are the Amazon basin,"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 23:02, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Conservation

  • "about 83% of Asia's (non-marine) turtle species are considered threatened.[133]" → "about 83% of Asia's non-marine turtle species are considered threatened.[133]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 23:04, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • " In Australia, Queensland's shark culling program, which uses shark nets and drum lines, has since 1962 killed over 5,000 turtles as bycatch;" " In Australia, Queensland's shark culling program, which uses shark nets and drum lines, has killed over 5,000 turtles as bycatch since 1962;"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 23:21, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Human uses

In culture

  • "In Hindu mythology, the World Turtle, named Kurma or Kacchapa, supports four elephants on his back. They in turn carry the weight of the whole world on their backs.[152][153]" → "In Hindu mythology, the World Turtle, named Kurma or Kacchapa, supports four elephants on his back, where they in turn carry the weight of the whole world on their backs.[152][153]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:15, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Other cultures too used turtle shells to make music:" → "Other cultures have also used turtle shells to make music."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:15, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1896, the French playwright Léon Gandillot wrote a comedy in three acts named La Tortue and was "a Parisian sensation"[169] in its run in France, and came to the Manhattan Theatre, Broadway, New York in 1898 as The Turtle.[170]" → "In 1896, the French playwright Léon Gandillot wrote a comedy in three acts named La Tortue and was "a Parisian sensation"[169] in its run in France, and also came to the Manhattan Theatre, Broadway, New York in 1898 as The Turtle.[170]"
Don't see the need for "also". LittleJerry (talk) 20:15, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As pets

  • "The popularly of pet turtles increased in the 1950s, and the US become the largest supplier, particularly of farm-bred red-eared sliders, in the international pet trade." change "become" to "became"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:15, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As food and other uses

  • "Trade of tortoiseshell was internationally banned in 1977 by CITES.[183]" → "The trading of tortoiseshell was internationally banned in 1977 by CITES.[183]"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:15, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That is all I have got. Realmaxxver (talk) 21:32, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Realmaxxver, is that a support? LittleJerry (talk) 21:44, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
LittleJerry Yes. Realmaxxver (talk) 21:45, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Realmaxxver, then you should declare "support" in bold for the administrators can see. LittleJerry (talk) 01:34, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
LittleJerry Okay. Support. Realmaxxver (talk) 15:38, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Funk

[edit]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:51, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. In the meantime, I see our main turtle expert Faendalimas is already helping out on the talk page, but I'll try to ping Sun Creator too, who did two previously successful turtle FACs. FunkMonk (talk) 16:18, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

FunkMonk? LittleJerry (talk) 15:09, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Common name, cardiopulmonary system, pubis, ,Nova Scotia, and ultraviolet light could be linked.
Linked. cardiopulmonary doesn't have its own article. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why give scientific names for species in the infobox caption and nowhere else?
Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he smallest living turtle is the speckled padloper tortoise of South Africa, measuring no more than 10 cm (3.9 in) in length." Weight?
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "carapacial (carapace) ridge" Not sure the parenthesis is needed, the name is kind of self evident.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "additionally have "intergular" scutes" State where these are.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "no openings for muscle attachment (temporal fenestra)" Since you say openings, you should say "fenestrae", which is plural.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "that are insectivorous, piscivorous or omnivorous" Link these terms.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Living turtles lack teeth but have keratin sheaths lining the edges of the jaws." You should mention these form a beak.
Source doesn't call it that. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Plenty of scholarly sources[2] call it that, you can't rely on the terminology of a single source. Furthermore, you already use the term beak twice in the article, so it's internally inconsistent. FunkMonk (talk) 10:27, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Aquatic turtles have more flexible legs" Not sure, but it would seem like "aquatic" would apply to sea turtles also? How about "amphibious turtles"?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "There is possibly a fourth type of cone that detects ultraviolet, as hatchling sea turtles respond experimentally to ultraviolet light, but it is unknown if they can distinguish this from longer wavelengths. A freshwater turtle, the red-eared slider, has an exceptional seven types of cone cell." Anything on what these abilities could be used for?
Night vision? Chiswick Chap? LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Source gives no suggestions for specific uses beyond implying vaguely that (some) turtles have good color vision. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:32, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtles share the linked circulatory and pulmonary systems of vertebrates, where the heart pumps deoxygenated blood through the lungs, and then pumps the returned oxygenated blood through the body's tissues. The turtle's cardiopulmonary system has both structural and physiological adaptations that distinguish it from other vertebrates." Odd to randomly change to singular, especially since we are talking aout many types of turtle collectively.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They make use of the shell to buffer the increasing acidity of the body fluids that this causes." How?
Clarified. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Diagram of origins of turtle body plan" of the turtle body plan?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:42, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In some non-marine turtles, such as the species of Geochelone (terrestrial), Chelydra (freshwater), and Malaclemys (estuarine), migrate seasonally over much shorter distances" Incongruent sentence.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Case studies exist of play behaviour in some turtle species" Odd, indirect of putting it. Why not something simpler like "play behavior has been reported/documented in case studies" or similar?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In at least the above, "behaviour" is UK spelling, though most of the article seems to be US spelling, check for consistency throughout.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and as a result, most males copulate with multiple partners throughout their lifespan" But don't all turtles, since none form pairs?
Pair bonds refer to social monogamy. LittleJerry (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The article states they do not form pair-bonds, therefore all turtles would "copulate with multiple partners throughout their lifespan", though this is stated as if only some do? FunkMonk (talk) 21:17, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:57, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtle can live very long lives." Turtles.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A Galápagos tortoise collected by Charles Darwin in 1835 died in 2006, living for at least 176 years" Is this the record, or have there been older ones? Could be specified.
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In other species, sex is determined genetically." But what does this mean?
linked. LittleJerry (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there variation in egg colour, or are they all white?
doesn't say. LittleJerry (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "using a sharp projection on their upper beak." State this is the egg tooth, common to all reptiles. Also note you do use the term beak here.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 12:09, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • You link pareiasaur at second instead of first mention.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's a bit odd that "Fossil history" jumps around in tense, would make more sense to stick to past tense for sentences like "The development of a shell reaches completion with the Late Triassic Proganochelys".
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtle shells may have originally been adapted for digging and a fossorial lifestyle." Begs elaboration. What does a shell have to do with this lifestyle?
Clarified. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • You could state specifically if the pareiasaur link is now considered unlikely, hard to make out from the text
doesn't say. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "External phylogeny" This title will be very hard to understand for most readers, I even had to read it a few times to get what you were going at. You could also say something like "higher classification" or similar, also a bit esoteric, but much less so.
  • Likewise "Internal phylogeny" could be "internal relationships" or "relationships within the group" or similar.
Fixed both. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Tyler Lyson and colleagues (2012) recovered turtles as the sister group of lepidosaurs instead.[110] A 2012 molecular analysis" Why give authorship for one analysis and not the others?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:55, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "was estimated to be 255 million years ago" Could state in what geological period this was.

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • "is estimated to have occurred around 210 million years ago" Could give geological period.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Robert Thompson and colleagues comment that" Give date as for other studies.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link cladogram.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:57, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could probably help the reader to replace anatomical terms (anterior, posterior, etc.) for direction with common terms.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:57, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "is formed with the pterygoid bones, but in Cryptodira the pulley is formed with the otic capsule." You could state roughly where on the skull these areas are.
Done. Otic capsule is already mention above with the ear. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The northern limits for terrestrial species" Where is this limit?
You can see it on the map. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
But important info should not be relegated to images only, the distribution section should at least state whereabout the limits are, as this gives an indication of what they can tolerate. FunkMonk (talk) 13:03, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 19:20, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The largest land turtle ever (Megalochelys) could also be mentioned under size.
I don't see the need. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It gives an indication of their upper limit on land, which has very different pressures on a body than when being able to float in water. Furthermore, some studies indicate it even rivalled Archelon in size:[3] FunkMonk (talk) 13:03, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There's nothing in that article about weight. I'd rather keep the size section simple and not digg into that mess. LittleJerry (talk) 16:08, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Vishnu in the article body, and avatar n the image caption.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "named the with the shell of a tortoise" The what?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It could make sense to group the text about modern turtles in literature together, it reads a bit odd now that you talk about turtles in mythology, then mention a few recent books, then back to mythology again, only to end on modern books and media.
Done. LittleJerry (talk)
  • "Lewis Carroll's 1865 Alice's Adventures in Wonderland" Link name and book in-text, also Mock Turtle.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "There are 360 recent (after 1500 AD) species of turtles, including tortoises and terrapins" This context in the intro makes sense to list the number of species in, but the article body you only mention the number under conservation. Could be mentioned in the part of the text about their taxonmic diveristy/evolution.
The lead does not have to follow the order of the body exactly. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and they are widely distributed across the world's continents and oceans" You could state they have a northern and southern limit.
That's obvious for every animal. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not really for entire animal groups, some have members practically everywhere. What I'm asking for is some kind of indication of latitude. FunkMonk (talk) 13:03, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:09, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Turtles are the only vertebrates with a complete shell." Only seems to be stated explicitly in the intro.
Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "all turtle species have eight neck vertebrates" Vertebrae.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 19:21, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Femke

[edit]

Great work on the article after the last nomination. I won't be able to do a source review, but hope to give some minor points.

Common names are given. LittleJerry (talk) 15:37, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
But why not only give common names in the lede? I feel strongly about keeping Wikipedia accessible to those without university education, and cutting back on difficult words and sentence length is essential for that. FemkeMilene (talk) 15:44, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Become they are not the proper names. I think the average reader can handle some scientific names. This is not the Simple English Wikipedia. LittleJerry (talk) 15:51, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I believe you overestimate the average reader. I would estimate that 20% of the readers of this article are younger than 15, and while they don't have to be able to understand the body, we should not deter them in the first paragraph. FemkeMilene (talk) 15:58, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed then. LittleJerry (talk) 16:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:37, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I struggle with this sentence "Various species of both freshwater and sea turtles emit numerous types of calls, often short and low frequency, from the time they are in the egg to when they are adults". I'm not quite sure of its purpose. I think low frequency should be hyphenated. If turtles can vocalise in the egg,that would be cool and deserves its own sentence. The word both seems superfluous. The word numerous is a bit vague. FemkeMilene (talk) 15:15, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:37, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The alts are not always super informative. I think more description is needed of the sagittal section one. Answer the questions : what do people with screen readers miss? This would be that the pelvis is near vertical and the vertebrae follow the carapace. FemkeMilene (talk) 15:36, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed some. LittleJerry (talk) 15:45, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Femkemilene can you do an image review? LittleJerry (talk) 16:22, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, I know nothing about copyright. I will likely support on prose soon. Will have another read tomorrow I hope. FemkeMilene (talk) 16:34, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Femkemilene, here is a list of file copyright tags that can be used on Wikipedia or on Wikimedia Commons. Realmaxxver (talk) 17:43, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Development of the shell: seen in the egg at stage 16/17, the carapace is developing. In section, the ribs are growing sideways not downwards, into the carapacial ridge, seen here as a bud, to support the carapace.[15] I find this caption difficult to understand. What is stage 16/17? The words seen break up explanation. Is a section a synonym for cross section? Maybe change to: development of the shell in the egg at early/late stage. The carapace is developing. In the cross-section on the right: ribs are growing sideways rather than downward into the carapacial ridge (bud) to support the carapace. Femke (talk) 00:32, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The second sentence is still cut into 5 choppy parts. Femke (talk) 07:14, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk)
  • Among sea turtles, the loggerhead has been shown experimentally to respond both by behavior and by evoked electrical signals to low sounds, with maximal sensitivity between 100 and 400 Hz. I don't understand. How do turtles evoke electrical signals? Again, unnecessary use of both (see WP:REDEX). Sentence might be further condensed by saying: The sea turtle loggerhead. Femke (talk) 07:37, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk)
  • The turtle bladder consists of tissues of transitional epitheliums which allow for it to expand while some muscle fibers facilitate contraction. Is this unique / special for turtles? If not, consider leaving out to get rid of jargon "transitional epitheliums". Why the word "some"? What does it have to do with osmoregulation? If you keep it, make clear why this is relevant. Femke (talk) 10:45, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • They use their eyes in all conditions from clear surface water to muddy coasts and the darkness of the deep ocean, and with their heads above water. Surely, we can shorting this. What about "They use their eyesight above and below water, from clear water to muddy coasts and the darkness of the deep ocean". Or "They can use their eyes in clear surface water, muddy coasts, the darkness of the deep ocean, and also above water." Femke (talk) 10:52, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Respiration for many amniotes is achieved by the contraction and relaxation of specific muscle groups (i.e. intercostals, abdominal muscles, and/or a diaphragm) attached to an internal rib-cage that can expand or contract the body wall thus assisting airflow in and out of the lungs. Sentence requires multiple reads before clear because it's too long. What about "Many amniotes breathe by contracting and relaxing specific muscle groups (i.e. intercostals, abdominal muscles, and/or a diaphragm) attached to a rib cage that can expand and contract the body wall, letting air flow in and out of the lungs." Rib cage is not an adjective, so doesn't need hyphen; active tense is easier to understand than passive. Thus is a bit old-fashioned, and unnecessary. Femke (talk) 11:00, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article text has 73 semicolons. While I accept my position on semicolons is not representative (never use them in non-academic texts), I find this excessive. Semicolons rob readers of their breathing pauses. To quote some Kurt Vonnegut, Don't use semicolons. They are transvestite hermaphrodites representing absolutely nothing. All they do is show you’ve been to college. Currently, a a lot of sentences that are not super closely related are connected with semicolons. Full stops are perfectly fine. Could you cut the use by, say, half or more? Femke (talk) 12:36, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 13:08, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Viscera -> organs (throughout)
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:00, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pleurodira and the lot need to be explained in the body
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 15:39, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:07, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Their association with antiquity and old age have contributed to their endearing where they in turn carry the weight of the whole world on their backs. I don't understand the this sentence. What does old age have to do with turtles carrying the world. Femke (talk) 14:57, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know how that was changed. Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:39, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • FYI: http://www.readabilityofwikipedia.com gives the article a 'reading score' of 49, which is college-level. I hope by the end of this review, we'll be firmly into the 15-17 yo category (50-60), rather than "college-level". There are still a few awkwardly long sentences that can be split, and easier synonyms to be found. A case could be made that this article should follow the standard of having a readability score above 60, which is a rule of thumb for web-based content. Femke (talk) 15:17, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some species have developed specialized diets such as the Mekong snail-eating turtle, the hawksbill, which specializes on sponges, and the leatherback, which feeds on jellyfish. What does "the hawksbill" mean? It's already a complicated sentence, so if it's a synonym, probably best to leave it out. What about "Some species have developed specialized diets: the Mekong snail-eating turtle eats sponges and the leatherback feeds on jellyfish.". Femke (talk) 15:33, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hawkbill sea turtle which is linked above. The hawkbill eats sponges. the Mekong snail-eating turtle obviously eats snails. LittleJerry (talk) 15:39, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hah! That makes sense. It's a bit confusing to switch sentence structure between the species. Femke (talk) 16:14, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Moved the Mekong snail-eating turtle last. LittleJerry (talk) 18:21, 9 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In marine species, they can travel up to thousands of kilometers, while in some non-marine turtles such as the species of Geochelone (terrestrial), Chelydra (freshwater), and Malaclemys (estuarine) migrate seasonally over much shorter distances, up to around 27 km (17 mi), to reach favored egg-laying sites. Split sentence. Femke (talk) 15:33, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 16:07, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Both young and mature sea turtles undertake far longer migrations -> You've already said that marine species travel much further in the previous sentence. Young and mature becomes clear in the next sentence. Can be omitted. Femke (talk) 15:33, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:00, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The mechanism by which sea turtles navigate to their breeding beaches remains unknown -> "How sea turtles navigate to their breeding beaches remains unknown"
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:00, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • For each of these species, the populations in different places have their own mitochondrial DNA genetic signatures which persist over the years, showing that the populations are distinct, so that homing must be occurring reliably.[67] -> split sentence. Femke (talk) 15:33, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:00, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • 360 recent (after 1500 AD). Not quite clear. I think the lede should say 'living and recently extinct', while the body should dedicate a separate sentence to (after 1500 AD). Femke (talk) 16:10, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:23, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The one in the body is still there. Femke (talk) 19:26, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Turtles are ectotherms or "cold-blooded". The or and the quotes imply those two terms are synonyms, but they are both wikilinked. Either remove one wikilink, or remove the quotes+add either. Femke (talk) 19:30, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:50, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

FYI: my energy levels are fluctuating quite a lot. May not be able to complete review. Femke (talk) 19:30, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • aquatic locomotion -> moving through water?
Phrase not found in article? Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:51, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I changed it to swimming. LittleJerry (talk) 12:13, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • have column-like legs with elephant-like feet withand short toes
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:51, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Turtles that are carnivorous or durophagous (eating hard-shelled animals), such as Mesoclemmys nasuta, have the most powerful bites, in its case 432 N. Can this be split in two? "Turtles that are carnivorous or durophagous (eating hard-shelled animals) have the most powerful bites. For example, the durophagous(?) Mesoclemmys nasuta has a bite of 432 N.
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:51, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some turtle species have developed proportionally large and thick heads, allowing for greater muscle mass and stronger bites -> I think the word proportionally confuses here and can be left out. Femke (talk) 11:39, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:51, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • the ambient environment -> their direct environment
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:57, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is a sedentary animal? One that sits and cannot move? (The link in the lede goes to sedentary lifestyle, so that's no help. But in the lede jargon shouldn't be explained by links anyway).
Reworded. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:57, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Turtles have been hunted for their meat, for use in traditional medicine, and for their carapaces -> simplify carapaces to shells?
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:57, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure about grammar, but should "Turtles shells" in second paragraph lede not be "Turtle shells" or Turtles' shells?
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:57, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In North America, it may denote the order as a whole, while in Britain, the name may be exclusive to sea turtles as opposed to freshwater "terrapins" and heavy-footed, land-dwelling tortoises -> split long sentence
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:57, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:57, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Thanks for simplifying the article. It's very interesting now that I understand it. Femke (talk) 08:15, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review — Pass

[edit]

Would be listing every image in the article, and adding my concerns (if any)

They look fine to me. LittleJerry (talk) 17:48, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Replaced link. LittleJerry (talk) 17:43, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:51, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:43, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:48, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:48, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

– Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:50, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Everything now seems fine to me. Passing the image review. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:05, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass

[edit]

Will attempt one. Hopefully I can access enough of the sources to feel comfortable with spot-checks. Hog Farm Talk 22:28, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Turtle Taxonomy Working Group (2017). Turtles of the World: Annotated Checklist and Atlas of Taxonomy, Synonymy, Distribution, and Conservation Status (PDF). Chelonian Research Monographs. 7 (8th ed.). pp. 1–292. " - Is it possible to narrow down the page range/numbers here? 292 pages is a very long range
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 11:26, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Willis, Katie L (2016). "Underwater hearing in turtles". Advances in Experimental Medicine and Biology. 875: 1229–35" - If this is a page range, go ahead and expand it out to 1229-1235
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk)
  • "Rieppel, Olivier (March 13, 2017). Turtles as hopeful monsters: origins and evolution. Bloomington, Indiana. p. 195. " - Needs the publisher
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 11:26, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sources all look reliable enough; formatting is generally good except for the items noted above. Spot checks to come later. Hog Farm Talk 00:09, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Spot checks at Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Turtle/archive2#Spot checks, looks fine. Hog Farm Talk 03:19, 17 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment

[edit]

Hi LittleJerry, re your email query, ideally we would be looking for another substantive review to nail down a consensus to promote. If one isn't forthcoming by sometime between the fourth and fifth weeks since nomination a coordinator will do what they get paid the big bucks for and make a judgement call as to whether to close as is or to leave it a little longer. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:21, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Grapple X

[edit]

Been reading through this one over the course of the morning and I have a few points.

  • Happy with the prose overall; this might not be the most ringing endorsement as it's my own weakest point, but I find this article reads well to a lay reader with little background in science.
Thank you. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:25, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Harvesting wild turtles are legal in some American states"—harvesting [...] is?
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:25, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A Galápagos tortoise collected by Charles Darwin in 1835 died in 2006"—we have an article for this animal at Harriet (tortoise), might be worth including. If the Franklin source doesn't name her then there are a few in that article which can supplement it.
Linked. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:33, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In regards to layout, there are a few short paragraphs given their own sub-headings which is generally to be avoided (MOS:PARA). Some of these are probably okay to be left but it might be worth looking at whether some can be combined under a broader heading; for example the "Communication" and "Intelligence" are both fairly brief, but feel close enough that they could exist as two separate paragraphs under an "Intelligence and communication" (or vice versa) heading.
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:36, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Images have been vetted well for use but in terms of layout I think we could neaten things up a little, especially as, at least on this monitor, there are a few instances where one spills into another heading. For example the neck retraction diagram sits a little awkwardly under the joint image template showing two related photographs, it displays wider and sits almost entirely in another section for me--the multiple image template would support merging the three together as a row of two and a row of one, which would alleviate some of this and tighten things up a little; the perrow= field would facilitate this. Similarly, in the "Human uses" heading we have two galleries displaying images at a remove from their related text, which is fine, but in between these is a single thumbnail image as well, and I wonder if it would be more at home under the second gallery row. These are only subtle changes and should be regarded only as suggestions.
Good idea. Fixed the neck retraction to fit neatly in the, er, body cavity, and grouped the human uses images as suggested. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:30, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks, all useful suggestions. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:38, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Having reviewed the changes made I am happy to support this at present. 𝄠ʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ꭗ 15:35, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Jim

[edit]

Looks pretty comprehensive, I even checked that you'd included Chelys galactica. Just a few nitpicks Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:18, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:59, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • the material of hair and fingernails — I'd prefer hair, horns and claws rather than a specifically human trait
Done.
  • the scapula, and the coracoid — Why the comma?
Removed.
  • turtle hardly has any bones in its shell — turtle has hardly any bones in its shell
Done.
  • they have a full-color vision. — remove "a"
Fixed.
  • The heart — perhaps three-chambered heart
Done.
  • bury itself under the floor — perhaps sea bed or sea floor, floor alone sounds constructional to me
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:59, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
All looks good, changed to support above Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:00, 24 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment from Therapyisgood

[edit]
That's for articles on species. The papers you are citing are way too specific for this general article. Not every taxon article is suitable for discussion on parasites or predators. LittleJerry (talk) 02:54, 24 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source comments

[edit]
  • Cite 1: add the publisher. Add the series.
Done.
  • Cite 3: add access date.
Done.
  • Cite 17: Why is Gaffney considered a journal article rather than a book? Why no identifier? (OCLC=263164288)
Fixed.
  • Cite 19: p/pp error.
Fixed.
  • What rule are you using to include or not the publisher locations of works?
Removed locations.
  • Cite 135: add the OCLC.
Done.
  • Cite 166: add the OCLC. (1049742993)
Done.
  • The titles of works should be in title case. See MOS:5LETTER.

Gog the Mild (talk) 18:33, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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