Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2010 June 7

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June 7[edit]

Japanese translation[edit]

What does "キー" mean, as it's used in the "Other T2 Dopants" section of Dopant (Kamen Rider)? Nyttend (talk) 03:26, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

kii means "key". (talk) 03:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Yes, but what kind of key? I was fixing links to key, a disambiguation page, and the link in the Dopant article was the only one I couldn't fix. Nyttend (talk) 04:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Most likely Key (lock), but several others are possible as well. This is just the English word "key" rendered in Japanese pronunciation and script. (It sounds cool.) The normal word for this is 鍵 (kagi). On further thought, it is a character name, so none of them are very ideal options for linking. (talk) 04:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
The Japanese words in that section are all simple transliteration. Oda Mari (talk) 05:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Okay, thanks for the help; I've simply delinked the word. Nyttend (talk) 11:54, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

on a conjunction in German[edit]


"Der spanische Tennisspieler Rafael Nadal hat zum fünften Mal die French Open gewonnen, während bei den Damen die Italienerin Francesca Schiavone erfolgreich war."

These two clauses seem like that they cannot be connected with the suboridinating conjunction ‘während’ as they are semantically independent. Where am I wrong on this? -Mr.Bitpart (talk) 05:49, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

They're not entirely semantically independent; they're both discussing winners at the French Open. Even in English, it would be acceptable to use while here: "The Spanish tennis player Rafael Nadal won the French Open for the fifth time, while the Italian Francesca Schiavone was successful in the women's tournament". +Angr 05:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps it was "zum fünften Mal" ("for the fifth time") which threw you off. Just to illustrate, if you left it out in the first clause, the conjunction might not bother you as much: "Der spanische Tennisspieler Rafael Nadal hat die French Open gewonnen, während bei den Damen die Italienerin Francesca Schiavone erfolgreich war." ("The Spanish tennis player Rafael Nadal won the French Open, while the Italian Francesca Schiavone was successful in the women's tournament.") ---Sluzzelin talk 06:17, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I thought that the use of ‘while’ as an adverbial expresses always some forms of causal relations (time + reason) that give prominence to the adjunct clause in a clausal embedment. Like:

Max joined the faculty while Nels was on sabbatical. (causal)

Max joined the faculty when Nels was on sabbatical. (non-causal)

Max joined the faculty A during the Semester 2000, and Nels joined the faculty B. (non-causal)

-Mr.Bitpart (talk) 16:34, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Like während in German, English while can also be used to express contrast or parallelism—in this case counterposing the female championship to the male championship. Marco polo (talk) 16:39, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I can't believe it's not a colon (or is it?)[edit]

I was reading the article on the academic quarter, and I came across this guy: Martin H:son Holmdahl. What's with the colon-looking thing in his middle(?) name? Not sure if the language desk is the right one, but here goes anyway Rimush (talk) 13:22, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

There's mention of this phenomenon at Colon (punctuation)#Word-medial separator. --Richardrj talk email 13:27, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
In other words, it's an abbreviation for a middle name like Haraldson or something else that starts with H and ends with -son, right? +Angr 14:14, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
The normal way to do this in English is with an apostrophe. Marco polo (talk) 16:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Not for names, I think. I can't imagine a person from an English-speaking country using "H'son" as an abbreviation their middle name. In English, it would just be Martin H. Holmdahl. +Angr 16:54, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
I agree that a medial apostrophe is unusual in English names (though not unknown). An initial is the usual way to abbreviate names. What I meant was that the usual way of abbreviating words in general medially in English is with an apostrophe. Marco polo (talk) 17:55, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
But that doesn't normally apply to human names. Wm. (short for William), Chas. (Charles) et al are not apostrophised. But they are written with a full stop at the end. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 05:26, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
Apostrophes are also occasionally used to abbreviate surnames - e.g. B'Stard, M'Naghten. Warofdreams talk 00:59, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
This is used a lot in Swedish, as the link given by Richardrj points out, both in names and in words such as "kyrka" (church) in road signs. See wiktionary, k:a. In names, such as Björn J:son Lindh, I've even heard it pronounced "yeeson" (In this case it's short for Johansson). --NorwegianBlue talk 20:23, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Here's what the Swedish Wikipedia says about the colon (in addition to its functions that are shared by English):
  • In certain abbreviations, such as s:t for sankt (saint);
  • In ordinal numbers: 1:a, 2:a, 3:e, 21:a, but not in dates or when the ordinal number is implied by the context: Den 5 maj, Carl XVI Gustaf;
  • Before extensions of digits, letters, abbreviations and initials: tv:n (definite form), USA:s (possession). Exceptions are abbreviations that are not pronounced letter by letter: Natos, Ikeas.
The titles of some articles of the Swedish Wikipedia: USA:s senat, FN:s deklaration om de mänskliga rättigheterna (the UN declaration of human rights), 2:a världskriget (WWII), S:t Petersburg. The latter two are actually redirects to the articles Andra världskriget and Sankt Petersburg respectively. --Магьосник (talk) 02:28, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

What would be a good antonym for "simulation"[edit]

I'm having a devil of a time trying to come up with a non-clunky word for a non-simulation. Any suggestions? -- (talk) 19:01, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Reality? In some situations, Ground truth can be appropriate. -- Coneslayer (talk) 19:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
"The real thing"? It depends on the context, though. rʨanaɢ (talk) 19:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
The usage I'm thinking of is more in the technology sector. A device is in simulation mode. When a switch is flipped, it's in _______ mode. ( "run" is too vague ) -- (talk) 19:58, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Is this a specific device? I guess the most common word would be what the device usually does. For example, CD writers work in "simulation" or "write" mode. Jørgen (talk) 20:13, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
"Production". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:48, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
"Normal". Or make it "Simulation mode on/off". --Anonymous, 07:16 UTC, June 8, 2010.
"Live"? Kingsfold (talk) 13:59, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
"Real mode"? (talk) 14:01, 8 June 2010 (UTC) Martin.
I'd use "operational mode" to contrast with "simulation mode". — Lomn 14:59, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

What language is spoken by this choir?[edit]

[youtube singing choir |]

This is a link to a singing choir and I have no clue what the language is.

Can anyone help me identify the language, and also if possible provide an English translation of one or more parts of the song?

Thanks in advance for any help. dr.ef.tymac (talk) 19:23, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Googling for "AYUBU Choir" (part of the title of the youtube clip) gets the link below as the second google hit (which links to the youtube clip). I'm pasting in the keywords that appear in the google description of the page:
Keywords: gospel muziki injili kwaya choir nyimbo music kenya africa sinza daresalaam ... Babu Ayubu - Safari. Swahili Song. ::Swahili Song. Views: 4850 ...
...which suggest that the language may be Swahili. --NorwegianBlue talk 19:49, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
This appears to be the choir of the Naioth Gospel Assembly in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. Here are some more of their videos posted on a Tanzanian Christian blog.--Cam (talk) 02:43, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
Since Swahili is the official language and lingua franca of Tanzania and the common language of Dar es Salaam, they are almost certainly singing in Swahili. Marco polo (talk) 12:39, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Antillean Creole and Haitian Creole[edit]

Does anyone know if Antillean Creole and Haitian Creole have much degree of mutual intelligibility? Any rough approximations of their degree of intercomprehensibility (e.g. French and Spanish, Spanish and Italian, etc.)? Thanks!-- (talk) 19:25, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there is a good amount of mutual intelligibility between Antillean Creole and Haitian Creole. Indeed, those two creoles are much closer to each other than either is to Louisiana Creole. Some of the main differences between AC and HC are a slightly different set of TMA markers and different phonological rules for the definite article, but their lexicons are quite similar. Unfortunately, I can only give you anecdotal information unless/until someone provides a better source: a Haitian Creole-speaking professor once told me he had little trouble communicating with people during his stay in Antillean Creole-speaking Guadeloupe.--el Aprel (facta-facienda) 20:08, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
If people have trouble communicating in the basolect, they might veer toward the acrolect, so that could be a complicating factor. — kwami (talk) 06:15, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for all your help! That's very useful info. Perhaps as a side note: drawing on (though perhaps slightly different) from what Kwami said, I would have to hypothesize that some individuals (whether or not it's true of your professor) who have a wider linguistic knowledge than "average" speakers of either language, e.g. greater fluency in "standard" French or exposure to multiple Romance languages, creoles, etc., might be to intuit the meaning better than those without such greater-than-average linguistic knowledge...-- (talk) 13:13, 8 June 2010 (UTC)