Language desk
< April 23	<< Mar \| April \| May >>	April 25 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

April 24

Finnish / Swedish name order

Linda Brava says that Linda Cullberg Lampenius is better known by her maiden name Linda Lampenius, and that she's married to Martin Cullberg. Is this a Swedish or Finnish custom that the husband's name goes before the birth name, or her own idiosyncrasy? I'd put it down to the common performing artist trait to keep their own names for publicity purposes, but her mother seems to have done the same thing. Rojomoke (talk) 03:33, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I would guess it's just a double barrelled surname. Lots of people do it in English, too.

KägeTorä - (影 虎) (もしもし！)

05:03, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Tove Torvalds, also a Swedish-speaking Finn, didn't keep her maiden name, because her husband's name is a lot better known than hers. --51.9.188.97 (talk) 08:46, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Every Finnish wife I know, including my ex-wife and my best teacher Anna Kokko-Zalcman, choose to put their birth name before their husband's name. When discussing that, they would say it's a choice more than a custom. Akseli9 (talk) 09:00, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Temple

Is there (or has ever been) a meaningful lexical relationship between this temple and this one? Omidinist (talk) 14:33, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not according to http://etymonline.com/index.php?search=temple --217.140.96.140 (talk) 15:47, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Except in the very tenuous sense that the temple on your head is a stretched bit of skin (and therefore ultimately derived from the same root as tension) and according to one possible etymology, the building temple was similarly an area marked by a stretched string or animal hide. Smurrayinchester 14:10, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Helpful hint.Thank you. Omidinist (talk) 19:00, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A Swedish, a Norwegian, and a Dane go into a bar

Would they prefer to talk in English, or would each one speak naturally in his own language - Swedish, Norwegian, Danish? --80.39.145.148 (talk) 14:39, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

They would prefer to talk in English, especially with a Dane. Akseli9 (talk) 16:06, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard Swedes and Norwegians conversing fluently with each other, each in their own language. "All the other Nordic countries joke that Danish sounds like Swedes talking with a potato or porridge in their mouths, while Danes joke that Swedes sound like drunk Danes, and Norwegians sound like drunk Danes singing". [1] Alansplodge (talk) 16:15, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It is true that they understand each other (even the Danes) and that they would use English mostly because their level in English is very good. Akseli9 (talk) 16:24, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Phil Champ says: ".. speakers of other Scandinavian languages describe Danish as sounding "like a throat disease", possibly due to the sound of the /r/ phoneme." Martinevans123 (talk) 16:41, 24 April 2016 (UTC) p.s. you mean Swede (as in "Swedish turnip")! [reply]

The history of the three nations is fraught with discord. English would be preferred. Very. And never call a New Norse-speaking person a "Swede" for sure. And be very careful about even sounding Swedish in Finland. Collect (talk) 16:50, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And don't call them a "Norwegian sodd," either. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:10, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Since the OP geolocates to Spain, he should consider that the relationship of Danish to Swedish/Norwegian is like the relationship of Portuguese to castellano; it is an asymmetrical one in regards to comprehension. It is much easier for Danes and Portuguese, whose sound systems have acquired more changes from the older common language to understand Swedish/Norwegian and Castilian, whose sound systems are for the most part more conservative, than it is for Swedish/Norwegian and Castilian speakers to understand Danish or Portuguese. μηδείς (talk) 17:20, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

From Danish language#Mutual intelligibility: studies have shown that speakers of Norwegian generally understand both Danish and Swedish far better than Swedes or Danes understand each other. Both Swedes and Danes also understand Norwegian better than they understand each other's languages.[8] Loraof (talk) 20:37, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have a Swedish friend who is in her mid-60s who has been involved in work with people from the other Scandinavian countries for nearly 50 years. She says that 50 years ago she spoke to other Scandinavians in a sort of Scandinavian mix, whereas from 30-40 years ago she started speaking (even to those same people) in English. Scandinavians generally have such perfect English that they can get by much better than if they try to understand each other's Scandinavian. One Dane speaking to one Swede or Norwegian might be able to modify their own language and pronunciation in order to speak Scandinavian, but if a Dane was speaking to a Swede and a Norwegian at the same time they'd need to make different modifications for each one, so therefore again English is easier. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 11:51, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For the edification of innocent bystanders; where Norwegian is mentioned above, does it refer to Nynorsk or Bokmal? Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:36, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note that my post made the specific distinction. <g>. Collect (talk) 13:44, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

language change

The Roast Beef of Old England "is an English patriotic ballad. It was written by Henry Fielding for his play The Grub-Street Opera, which was first performed in 1731."
When mighty Roast Beef was the Englishman's food,
It ennobled our brains and enriched our blood.
Our soldiers were brave and our courtiers were good
Oh! the Roast Beef of old England,
And old English Roast Beef!

did this rhyme in 1731? Asmrulz (talk) 19:50, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It still does rhyme in parts of Cumbria -- Q Chris (talk) 21:26, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Great Vowel Shift would have finished long before 1731, so the standard pronunciations of food, blood and good wouldn't by then rhyme any more.

The ballad may have used a non-standard pronunciation -- either dialectal, or as a stylistic tool to sound more archaic. --51.9.188.45 (talk) 21:59, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

But it's more likely that it didn't rhyme terribly well. Alansplodge (talk) 21:53, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"And when threatened with emeutes (tarantara, tarantara) / And your 'eart is in your boots (tarantara)..." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:58, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

More likely is that lyrics did not require "correct rhymes" in those days, and the tradition of near-rhymes is even found today (vide Wichita Lineman lyrics and "time" false rhyme with "line") Collect (talk) 13:50, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Lord-word

I came here with a question, but decided to add it here since it is very closely related. In the LDS hymnals are quite a few hymns that rhyme Lord with word. Was this ever closer to a rhyme?Naraht (talk) 20:51, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Until somebody who knows about historical vowel pronunciation comes along, a brief comment about hymns... Hark the herald angels sing tries to rhyme "behold him come" with "Virgin's womb", the British national anthem, God save the Queen, rhymes "cause" with "voice" (verse 3), and the New Zealand national anthem, God Defend New Zealand rhymes ""star" with "war". There are many, many others; if you want me to go on, I am quite willing. Alansplodge (talk) 21:13, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Linguist David Crystal and his actor son Ben explain and perform Shakespeare in the "original pronunciation" at The Globe. This was recorded on YouTube by the Open University. The puns may surprise you. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 23:16, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Have we an article on reconstructing pronunciation? —Tamfang (talk) 09:09, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

We have Middle English phonology and Early Modern English, which may help. {the poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 185.74.232.130 (talk) 13:02, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The phenomenon is known as eye-rhyme. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:36, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There are many different types of rhyme - from the perfect ones to those with only the vaguest of links. See Rhyme 81.132.106.10 (talk) 13:39, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I think that the collapse of most R-colored vowels into [ɝ] in most American dialects is fairly recent. It might be that word was pronounced [wɔ˞d] in the early 19th century. Marco polo (talk) 19:16, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Request for a translation

Hello, I am a new editor on Wikipedia. I will translate an article from English to Greek. I would like, however to translate this article to other languages. How can I request for a German, French, Polish etc translation?

Thank you. Irene000 (talk) 20:00, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Translate us may be a good place to start looking for resources to help you. --Jayron 32 23:45, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]