Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 July 8

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July 8

Portuguese phonology

What makes Portuguese different from Spanish or Italian that /kʷ/ and /ɡʷ/ are considered phonemes in the first? Obviously, this is based on one linguist's description, but do these labialized versions also exist in Spanish and Italian? --Explosivo (talk) 00:17, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

See wikt:quarenta#Portuguese and wikt:cuarenta#Spanish and wikt:quaranta#Italian.

—Wavelength (talk) 01:34, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

I mean the difference between labialized /k/, /g/ and a sequence of /k/, /g/ followed by /w/. Only the article about Portuguese phonology mentions the labialized consonants as phonemes. Spelling says nothing about pronunciation and IPA transcriptions don't necessarily always consider these subtle distinctions. --Explosivo (talk) 18:53, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Syllabification

Comment by blocked User:139.255.65.211
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Syllabification of Indonesian word "Penginapan", using spaces between syllables? 139.193.145.109 (talk) 01:42, 8 July 2016 (UTC) Yes please. Sorry, what was the question? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 07:51, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

The Belgian composer, Karel Goeyvaerts

Hello. I am looking for the exact pronouncing form of Karel Goeyvaerts, the Belgian composer's name. It seems that the name is Flemish originally. Could someone please help me? Thank you in advance. — Hamid Hassani (talk) 12:39, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

You can hear the last name pronounced at the beginning of this video: [1] 184.147.117.244 (talk) 18:53, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. :) Hamid Hassani (talk) 05:29, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Pommelion

Hi, I'm reading the book "Master and Commander" and encountered the word "pommelion." It may be a nautical or ordnance term. I tried to find it's definition, but am unable to do so either in a dictionary or searching the net. Is it an appropriate request to ask you to find it's definition and add it to your database? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.101.90 (talk) 15:58, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Please provide the context, such as the sentence in which it appears. StuRat (talk) 16:02, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Indeed it's a navy term [2]. 80.44.163.165 (talk) 16:08, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

The Oxford English Dictionary says it is equivalent to pommel, in the sense of the knob at the rear end of a cannon. (Similar to Cascabel (artillery): "Gunnery. Formerly the knob or pommel at the rear end of a cannon; now the whole rear part behind the base ring, including knob and base.")

1769 W. Falconer Universal Dict. Marine at Breeching, The..cascabel of the gun..sailors call the pomiglion, or pummelion.

1794 D. Steel Elements & Pract. Rigging & Seamanship I. 232 It is formed with a cunt-splice in the middle, which passes over thepomiglion, or cascabel, of the gun.

1837 G. G. Macdougall tr. W. A. Graah E. Coast Greenland 74 The entire length of the gun, from muzzle to pommillion, was sixtyfive inches and a half.

The other citations are in fact from the Master and Commander series. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 18:06, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Amusingly, the "cunt-splice" (mentioned above) was Bowdlerised in the 19th century to "cut splice". Alansplodge (talk) 00:26, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

the most imaginative question tags ever : ) by Mr.khaled Zalat

Homework questions
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
hello everybody I have some sentences that need appropriate question tags let's be imaginative I got to go right now,..........? [slang] It ain't easy,.........? [slang] I suggest he be awarded,..........? I wish he were a king,...........? I suggest we buy them,..........? I wish we were kings,..........? we better go right now,.......? [slang] There's some people there,.........? [non-standard] the team was co-operative,...........? the team played well,.............? you go there right now,.........? one of us hit john,..............? one of you/them/the boys/the girls,..........? [each answer is needed separately] 50000 $ seemed to be a lot of money,...........? thou spokest too much,..............? only can he do this when I am here,........? he 's to come tonight,..........? he 's got to go,......? There he is,.........? Who will get the best marks, will be rewarded,................? There goes the bus,..........? he is too weak to carry this,..........? he been there,................? [dialect, non-standard] Here we are,..........? one should be creative,............? none of the students was/were clever,........? [each answer is needed separately] Tell him nothing,........? don't say nothing as you always do,.......? a number of people protested,.........? somw/half of us don't understand,............? [each answer is needed separately] The majority/minority of people agreed,.......? [each answer is needed separately] Neither of my brothers is/are married,........? more than one is coming,...........? Noone has refused nothing,............? john says my sister will marry Jennifer,.......? he is tired because he has been playing,......? neihter his friends nor he played well,......? Ted as well as his kids survived the accident,.......? a child must be raised well,.........? he used only to come here,..........? Not only Jasmin but also her friends succeeded,.........? Either Charles or his friends will travel,..........? It nearly hit my eye,.......? It doesn't mean Smith is any better,........? They/people say he is clever,...........? There seemed to be no doubt as to it,........? It's Johnny that insulted me,..........? It's no use crying,.......? you could go now,......? you could buy a new one,..........? God is Merciful,..........? My classmate is absent,......? one of the books is lost,........? It's said he is clever,..........? Believe it or not.Louis is abroad,........? none is clever,...........? She's gone now,........? This is my heroine,..........? Blessed be the one who has good offspring,......? We are sad he is not here,.......? he used not to be lonely,........? How beautiful he is,...........? He had a car ,......? (didn't/hadn't) Are both choices fine? he is believed to have travelled,.......? (isn't/didn't) Are both choices fine? Rumour has it that he is married,............? let's do it,.........? (shall/shan't) Are both choices fine? As it seems, he is noisy,...........? He's done over there,.........? It's her who hit me,.............? He added, "Let alone another three poor children,..........? " Disappointed is what he feels,..........? I ate only a biscuit,..........? Not even a boy will go,.........? Whover broke the window,will have to fix it,..........? I won't marry, believe it or not,.........? If only he were clever,......? Not many people attended,..........? Many a man fell,..........? [A very good question, I think :) ] We not only played but also had fun,.........? Noone saw him except for a man,...............? The question turned to be more difficult than he thought,..........? I went nowhere,.............? His progeny caused him to commit suicide ,............? Not another boy did it,..........? I didn't meet him but I wrote to him,........? you'd best run,.........? We have done with it,...........? The movie has nothing to do with the novel,.........? He has plenty of time but no money,.........? One of my sisters is ill,.......? Let's not argue,.........? Don't let's argue,..........? Not all the boys arrived,...........? You had better say nothing,..........? It's I who complain,...........? Problem solved,...........? [notes/spoken] There, no doubt, is no good food,.......? I don't think there are no good players,..........? He is clever, I think,......? They won't survive even you,........? What annoys me is that she is harsh,........? Long live the king,............? It was lost not stolen,...........? Nothing or no one will prevent me,........? Their mastermind is wicked,.......? There we sat,.........? I always did and never will,.........? Spain won the cup,..........? You have no idea,...........? A man like you shouldn't do this,..........? Charles, a man like you shouldn't do this,..........? Charles, someone like you shouldn't do this,..........? I as well as John did that,..........? Charles as well as Jack did that,.........? H must be no more than two years old,............? To be elected is joyful,............? What makes me nervous is girls,...........? None but a clever student will succeed,..........? None of the news made my day,.........? a number of workers were fired,..........? Many are clever,...........? Neither Charles nor I am clever,..........? Fourty percent of the profits seemed good,..........? Fourty percent of the area was flooded,..........? He or she is clever,.........? Man has made a lot of achievements over centuries,...........? The number of people mentioned survived,............? Thanks for being patient please, these questions are of great importance to me and It took me a lot of time to think of them so if you find them good points, please, share your answers with us. Thanks in advance : ) Finally, I'd like to mention something important : 1*-what is the question tag for modals of deduction [must/may/might/can/could] for example : -he must have been clever, (wasn't/mustn't) he? -he must have kids,(doesn't/mustn't/hasn't [for possession] ) 2*what is the question tag for a sentence beginning with "introductory-there" ? can we use the real subject in the question tag? 3* "digression" choose the correct answer and support your answer with evidence if possible ............> If he (won-had won)after he played the match, I'd have been happy with him 4* "There is a boy and some girls ." why didn't we just say "There are" because of "and" ?! sorry for this long subject but all I can do is to seek answers : )Best wishes and thanks in advance and please provide evidence when possible.The first person to comment is definitely a hero : ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.166.176.158 (talk) 18:32, 8 July 2016 (UTC) This looks like HOMEWORK to me—e.g., "choose the correct answer and support your answer with evidence if possible". Sorry, we don't answer homework questions. Loraof (talk) 19:20, 8 July 2016 (UTC) I'm charitable enough to say: it looks like you're meant to fill in the blanks with phrases like "isn't it?" and "didn't you?"; but many of these examples do not fit such a construction. —Tamfang (talk) 08:39, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Although this is most likely homework (I had to do such exercices when I was learning English), it is very interesting, because these are all weird sentences where it is really not obvious that there is a good question tag that could work, which throws into question that the sentence is grammatical at all, although it does seem to be :-) --Lgriot (talk) 15:44, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

Translation in Revelation 6:8: death or plague?

In Revelation 6:8, referring to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the Greek word θανάτω [3], a form of Thanatos, is translated as "death" by many Biblical translations (e.g. KJV, D-R) but translated as "plague" by many others (e.g. NIV, NASB) [4]. I've always understood "Thanatos" to simply mean "death," not "plague," and am confused by why so many Biblical translations would instead use "plague" here. Is there some Hebrew source older than the Greek that instead supports the "plague" translation? Can people with more expertise in Biblical scholarship, Greek, and Hebrew comment on the validity of each of the two translations? —SeekingAnswers (reply) 19:17, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

There is no Hebrew version of the book of Revelation in the Hebrew Bible, because the New Testament post-dates the canon of the Hebrew writings. Short answer: the Greek version was the original. Akld guy (talk) 20:15, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

I know. I was referring to older (including possibly extracanonical) sources that might have inspired/influenced parts of the Revelation text and which the translators might have consulted. —SeekingAnswers (reply) 21:24, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

First, there is a forged "Aramaic" version of the New Testament by the Jews for Jesus, which is not hard to get your hands on.

But, θανάτω is simply one of the ways of writing "by death" (Original θανάτου ) and when listed among other means of death in Revelations it seems odd--but the other means are by things like starvation and violence, never disease. So the meaning seems indeed to be by plague, and the association of chloros--yellow green--seems (compare blue/flavus) to fit with plague: [5] Yet θᾰνάτῳ is mentioned 15 times in the Greek testament as the optative "he/she be put to death". We need more context, as usual. μηδείς (talk) 21:44, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

This verse is thought to contain an allusion to Ezekiel 14:21, where the corresponding Hebrew word is דֶבֶר, which does indeed mean plague. - Lindert (talk) 21:52, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, @Lindert:. One of my greatest regrets is that it was too hard to schedule Hebrew as an undergrad. Do you mean the word you gave in Hebraic letters is usually (or at least in this case) translated as death by plague, @Lindert:rather than just by "death"? μηδείς (talk) 03:04, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

That Hebrew word (pronounced DEvər) also appears in the Book of Exodus as the fifth Plague of Egypt. It refers to a deadly epidemic disease, usually translated "pestilence" or "plague." Search of the Hebrew word through an on-line concordance (of Mechon Mamre) yielded only Leviticus 26:25, "...and I will send the pestilence among you..." being part of a long litany of punishments not strictly equivalent to death. -- Deborahjay (talk) 08:40, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

I know this isn't a language question, but is there any consensus whether this "plague" is what we now call plague (i.e. Y. Pestis)? Our article says there's evidence that it goes back 5000 years, so it seems possible from that point of view, but I'd think there might be more known than that (say, look at the Biblical account and compare symptoms and epidemiology; that sort of thing). --Trovatore (talk) 03:39, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

I can't say whether there's a consensus, but the standard modern Hebrew lexicon of the Old Testament HALOT specifically translates dever (דֶבֶר) as bubonic plague. Other (less recent) lexicons translate it more generally as plague, pestilence, murrain etc. The cognate Arabic word 'dabr' means death, and the Septuagint also frequently translates the Hebrew word as θάνατος (death). - Lindert (talk) 08:18, 11 July 2016 (UTC)