Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Orphanage

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WikiProject Orphanage
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Criteria clarifications...[edit]

Hello everyone! I've been working on a new userscript for this project (details at User:Technical 13/Scripts/OrphanStatus), and I need your help in setting the criteria for the script to make it as useful as possible. I need clarification of exactly what the but the incoming links to the redirects do count clause on redirects means and some discussion on whether or not "List of ..." articles are excluded or not. I did some testing of the script, of which some may need to be re-tagged based on the answer to my need for clarification of "lists", but I will happily take care of that. Thanks and happy deOrphaning! — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 15:14, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I'd interpret "but the incoming links to the redirects do count" as meaning:
  • If FooABC has a redirect from Fooabc, that doesn't in itself count as de-orphaning it
  • But if there's a link from an artice (other than a dab page and all the usual exclusions) to the Fooabc redirect then that does count as de-orphaning it.
It seems logical enough: that link is intended for the article, even if it goes via an old/less-used name instead of directly. Is that the sort of answer you were looking for? PamD 20:00, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Not exactly what I was hoping for as to what the answer might be, but logical and yes, helpful. Thank you PamD. What about the "List" pages? Do those not count just like disambigs? That is what I'm guessing. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 20:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
A link from a List of... page does deorphan an article. See Wikipedia:Orphan#Criteria. ~KvnG
  • I don't see List of... pages listed at all on WP:O#C, which is why I was asking for clarification here. I've always considered List of... pages as DAB pages, in which case they would not count towards deorphaning, which is why I wanted to be sure (because the way I've always thought of it is harder to code). Thanks. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 15:14, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
Lists are definitely not the same as disambiguation pages. Anything not mentioned in WP:O#C counts as an incoming link and lists are not mentioned. I will add this clarification to WP:O#C and we'll see if anyone wants to take issue with this reading. ~KvnG 17:18, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live![edit]

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Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

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Harej (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned talk pages[edit]

WP:Orphan talk pages links to WP:WikiProject Orphanage, but there doesn't seem to be good info on that page about cleaning up orphaned talk pages. Two examples I've found recently are Talk:Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and Talk:SIP connection. These pages were apparently left behind after an article page move. What is the best way to clean up these orphaned talk pages? —danhash (talk) 23:56, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

I have added {{merged-to}} and {{merge-from}} notes the the respective talk pages of Session Initiation Protocol and Talk:SIP connection. I think this is the correct way to handle this. I'm not sure this in the scope of our project. Maybe better handled by WP:WPMERGE. ~Kvng (talk) 13:34, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Orphan template behavior[edit]

Orphaned articles
All articles 127,298
Attempted de-orphan
All articles 1,450
Low linked articles
All articles 116

There have been recent changes to the {{Orphan}} template that affect how orphan categories are maintained. There is existing discussion at Template_talk:Orphan#Att.3D_parameter_broken and Template_talk:Orphan#Att.3D_parameter_broken. These are a bit hard to follow. I'm working to get these changes reverted since they have unexpected or unintended consequences and there did not appear to be a good consensus for the change. I would like to open a discussion here as to whether we'd like to change how the |att= and |few= parameters behave. ~Kvng (talk) 20:33, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Behavior documented at Wikipedia:Orphan#Using_the_att_parameter indicates that adding an |att= parameter moves an article from the Orphaned category to the Attempted de-orphan category. If I understand correctly, 3gg5amp1e would prefer that orphans always be categorized as an orphan by their |date= parameter. ~Kvng (talk) 20:59, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I think 3gg5amp1e's point was that an article tagged with "few=May 2015" should be categorized in Category:Low linked articles from May 2015, not "from whatever the date= parameter says". They'd re-set the "few=" parameter to the "most recently checked" date to avoid looking at the same articles again and again when working on the "oldest" end of the backlog. I didn't see the point in using a parameter other than "date=" for the date by which the article should be categorized; I also wondered whether we shouldn't keep a record of how old the problem really is. I'm not familiar with this WikiProject's workflow, though, and was thinking of similar maintenance templates such as {{unreferenced}} where I tend to take the date as an indication of severity of the problem: If an article has been tagged for a lack of references for a decade and a quick search doesn't find any, it seems likely that none can be found, with implications on whether we should have an article on the topic at all. That obviously is not an issue for {{orphan}}, and on second thought I see the advantage in one editor resetting the date so that others won't double-check the same orphaned article. Huon (talk) 21:46, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • I can't get in depth from my mobike right now, but 3gg5amp1e's request made sense to me. It certainly makes sense for "attempted deorphan from " to point to the last attempt and not the minth it was marked as an orphan, there's really no way to track progress otherwise. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 23:14, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I don't know how the |few= parameter is supposed to work. I entered the conversation when I noticed that the behavior of the |att= parameter had changed. Was the |att= change unintentional? ~Kvng (talk) 02:00, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
  • I'd think that it would work the same as few, if it's been reattempted, the date should be updated. Still not home, and still not at computer. I'm also wondering where 3gg5amp1e is and why they're not commenting. — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 15:52, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
  • OH NO!! What happened to the progress boxes!? I worked really hard in going the few and att boxes to get them all reattempted and finished the few and was only about half way through the att box but now I have NO IDEA which ones I've already done because I was doing them from oldest first and knocking categories off but ALL of those categories are back now. I really don't want to go through thousands of orphans again that I've already looked at and did web searches and stuff to try and find things they related to so I could connect topics. I'm so discouraged and sad. Huon, that was exactly my point. They should be in a category for whenever the last attempt is so that they are in a proper chronological order of attempts and I don't have to waste tons of time on ones I've already done or ones that someone else has done. The change for updating the date should be for both att and few because that's how the backlog works. I don't really care about the original date if they are in one of those subcats to be honest, nor am I offended if they are still in a category that shows the original date. As long as the att and few parameters properly use the last attempt date, I'm completely neutral about the other and if someone else can make use of it to help clear the backlog that is fine. Please restore the categorization fix as soon as possible, so I can get back to work on the backlogs. Thank you. 3gg5amp1e (talk) 12:59, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
There has been no loss of information. once we understand what you need, we should be able to get your workflow working from the point you left it. The changes Techical13 did improved your workflow but were in conflict with the workflow I was using which is documented at Wikipedia:Orphan#Using_the_att_parameter. Basically, I am expecting orphans to be removed from Category:Orphaned_articles_from_August_2008 after I attempt to deorphan and add an |att=June 2015 parameter. I'm afraid even having read the above, I don't understand what you're working on and what the requirements for your workflow are. Can you link to some documentation or specific categories you're working on and how you expect the contents of those categories to behave. ~Kvng (talk) 16:44, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
  • So, Kvng, what you're saying is that when you attempt to deorphan an article, on June 3, 2015 that has been an orphan since August of 2008 it should be moved into "Attempted deorphan from August 2008" instead of "Attempted deorphan from June 2015"? That makes absolutely no sense to me. All that I was asking was that when an attempt to deorphan is made, it goes into a category with a date based on when the last attempt to deorphan it was. It was User:Huon that suggested it should always remain in the parent category indicating it has been an orphan since August 2008. Technically, it is still an orphan since then, and your discussion should be with him/her about that, but that makes no difference to me. My workflow just relies on the category for att or few to be the month/year that the last attempt was. 3gg5amp1e (talk) 12:54, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
No, what I want is for an attempted article to be removed from the Orphaned articles from... category. If this does not happen, we don't know which articles in the monthly categories have already been worked on and the workflow goes in a loop. ~Kvng (talk) 13:46, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Also, now that I'm looking at Wikipedia:Orphan#Using_the_att_parameter, it is not working at all as described in that section, but the changes that User:Technical 13 made got it closer to working as described. Currently, |att= and |few= do not take/use a date parameter at all, they only are "if exist" type parameters. That means that "Also, when placing the|att= parameter, it's unnecessary to remove the pre-existing |date= parameter, as they are two separate and distinct parameters that complement each other." is also a lie, since it only uses the |date= parameter (since it is expecting that is the only parameter that contains a date). "This gives editors the added benefit of knowing when the orphan tag was first placed on the article." was Huon's argument. "Note that this does not double-categorize it, the |att= takes precedence and, as was mentioned above, the article is moved to the attempted de-orphan category for that date, so you're not having to revisit the same article twice when browsing through the monthly orphaned articles category." The first part is true (because it only expect there to be one date and it doesn't expect att or few to have any date), but the second part is a complete lie (because it only expect there to be one date and it doesn't expect att or few to have any date) and "so you're not having to revisit the same article twice when browsing through the monthly orphaned articles category." is the part I was trying to get fixed so that it worked as it is suppose to. It looks like the only part of that whole section that is true is the "Note that this does not double-categorize it" part, and to fix the documentation a person only needs to remove the word "not" and restore the template to the way that T13 had fixed it. 3gg5amp1e (talk) 13:06, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
The thing that was not happening after User:Technical 13's change was the article is moved to the attempted de-orphan category for that date. The articles were being added to the attempted de-orphan category for that date but to qualify as having been moved they would need to be removed from the Orphaned articles from... category where they formerly lived. ~Kvng (talk) 13:46, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Actually, they were moved after his first edit per my request. It was User:Huon's subsequent request that had them added back to the original category as well. So, can his first edit at least be restored so that my workflow will be fixed and then you can discuss the last one with Huon? Please and thank you? 3gg5amp1e (talk) 14:18, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm not a member of this WikiProject, and on second thought from a "workflow" perspective it makes sense to put the articles in an "attempted de-orphan from [most recent attempt date]" category. For other maintenance categories, specifically "articles with topics of unclear notability" or "unreferenced", I tend to use the date of the original tag as an indication of the severity of the problem - if nobody has managed to find references for several years, likely references cannot be found. At least by analogy we may want to keep track of the original "orphaned from" date, too. If the WikiProject members prefer not to put orphans in two categories with different dates, I won't object, though. Huon (talk) 16:11, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
  • Okay, then can the templates be restored to the point that they were at before T13 (who seems to be on break) made the additional changes to meet your request User:Huon? That's all I need to be able to get back to work (once it filters through the system thingie to go live). thanks. 3gg5amp1e (talk) 17:32, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Should we just restore this version and see if we're all happy or should we wait for Technical 13 or should we find someone else with template expertise to help? ~Kvng (talk) 19:59, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
Since everybody agrees, I have reverted the template to that version. Huon (talk) 19:38, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
Ok, that was my guess at a revision with 3gg5amp1e's request and without Huon's. It does not back out all of Technical 13's work. Once backlog is digested I'll let you know if the restored version still works for me. ~Kvng (talk) 22:31, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Sorry, I've been too busy and away. Do you need anything further from me here? I see that part of my changes have been restored, and I'm glad to see that 3gg5amp1e seems to be happy with that. Any objection to me fixing the grammar for "few" linked ones back to an appropriate wording since "no other articles link to it" is wrong? — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 16:08, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Things look good for me. ~Kvng (talk) 13:44, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Revival of WikiProject Abandoned Articles[edit]

For the past few months I've been trying to revive the Abandoned Articles WikiProject with little luck. I was wondering that considering the similarities between it and this project, would anyone here be interested in helping, or at least giving some kind of guidance/assistance. AFAIK, I'm quite ironically the only member still active. Imagine that, a WikiProject for Abandoned Articles that just happens to be an Abandoned WikiProject, lol. Thanks.
Uamaol (talk) 15:20, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Interesting. Looks like some on Wikipedia:Dusty articles are also orphans but not many. ~Kvng (talk) 17:47, 3 June 2015 (UTC)


Why does the WP:ORPHAN shortcut redirect to this WikiProject page? Shouldn't it redirect to the explanation of what an orphan is, as does WP:O and WP:ORPH? I find it illogical that a shortcut directs to a different page than do the abbreviated versions of the same word. – voidxor 19:06, 5 October 2015 (UTC)