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Hey, I noticed someone changed the fact that Buddhism remained the world's largest religion until 1955. Most sources on the internet a couple of years ago claimed that they were the THIRD oldest world religion after Hinduism and Jainism and that Buddhism remained the world's largest religion since the Mongol Empire until the 1950s (1955). Please don't take some vague American based Christian websites seriously. Let's keep religious studies secular. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cookieballer (talk • contribs) 23:13, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
bce offends me because that takes Christ out of BEFORE CHRIST. So can you please fix that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 23:30, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
The majority of the world population is offended, or at least bypassed, by a dating-system which takes a specific religious figure as it's norm. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:13, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
In my view, and after examining WP:External Links, this article does not appear appropriate for an external link on such a general topic. The article itself is essentially an opinion piece that conveys no factual or historical information about the subject. After reverting the link addition, User:Abstruce added it again, writing, "He's not just another guy down the street.. Sam Harris (author) is notable, His work has been on The New York Times Best Seller list for 33 weeks." Regardless of how many times the author has been on a NY Times bestseller list, this doesn't make him an expert on the topic, or make the article helpful to the average Wikipedia reader. External links should provide some level of neutral and accurate information, and this article provides neither. Tengu800 01:46, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
I maintain that the External link should be on the Article, and there are reasons behind the thought. Yes, I did say that "He's not just another guy down the street.." And, He's not naive to the topic. I may agree that the neuroscientistHarris' article may not hold much significance for a reader who wants an average level introduction to Buddhism; but at the same time, I claim that His article holds significant value for a reader who wants to grab a good knowledge of what Buddhism actually is and what Buddhism actually asks a person to do/go for (but yes, the article is for a reader who is not naive to Buddhism). Thanks !! ← Abstruce 02:51, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Looking through the article, I don't see any real information about Buddhism. It looks like mostly criticism of religion, which is not helpful for an informational article on the general subject of Buddhism. It also appears that Harris himself is not a Buddhist and not a scholar of Buddhism, and he is basically advocating atheism / secularism and the supremacy of science, not presenting meaningful information to readers about the subject of Buddhism. He even refers to religion as "contamination," and describes the world as having "long been terrorized by fratricidal Sky-God religions." Not exactly a scholarly or neutral approach to the subject, and as previously pointed out, there is no actual information being presented in the article — it's an opinion piece. Tengu800 05:57, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
"Wikipedia is not a list of links". The few links that are put in this section should be general, providing access to a rich source of information. This one "article" does not meet these criteria at all. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:45, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Well, I believe that Harris' article is not an opinion piece for a reader having deep interest in Buddhism but a master piece (during free time, I used to and still sometimes have a look at Siddhārtha Gautama's hypothesis). He has touched the core of Buddhism. Let Me explain briefly ! A sentence from the article: "The ninth-century Buddhist master Lin Chi is supposed to have said, “If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." Now, this appears to be an opinion from the very first quick look, but if one is a Buddhist (that I AM not) or may read Harris' article, then He would realize that Harris following-up on/with Lin Chi's statement has made a sincere attempt to highlight what Buddhism actually is and what Buddhism actually asks a person to do/go for. Users know that "Wikipedia is not a list of links," but this is an extremely wonderful link as in it a neuroscientist is looking to target on the possible corruption in Buddhism, that too by pointing to a Buddhist master's quote that form the backbone of His article !
Even Barbara O'Brienappreciated this very article of Harris, She wrote: "Some in the West dismiss these devotional and worshipful aspects of Buddhism as corruptions of the original teachings of the Buddha. For example, Sam Harris, a self-identified atheist who has expressed admiration for Buddhism, has said Buddhism should be taken away from Buddhists. Buddhism would be so much better, Harris wrote, if it could be cleansed of the "naive, petitionary, and superstitious" trappings of religion altogether." I AM not sure whether I have anymore comments to text, here. Thanks !! ← Abstruce 07:41, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome to consider the article a "masterpiece," but it isn't an informational article about Buddhism, and it doesn't convey facts but rather the author's opinions. Tengu800 11:43, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Dear Tengu800 for the Welcome, but I have already made My points crystal clear above. I AM seriously shocked about Your and Joshua Jonathan's views about the article, but anyways, I AM sure Siddhārtha Gautama had enjoyed the article accompanied by Lin Chi, somewhere in the never-ending & forever assembling geographical Heavens ! Cheers to their upcoming heavenly party with Sam Harris Thanks !! ← Abstruce 13:56, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello friends, I just read this article, and I think that it definitely makes some interesting points. However, it is not appropriate for a general article on Buddhism. If you look at other external links, they are either factual information or explanation of concepts. This "Killing the Buddha" article is essentially a philosophical argument made by a western atheist against Buddhists. While it does correspond (partially) to the Zen concept of "special transmission outside scriptures" (教外别传), it is definitely an in-depth argument not suitable for the average Wikipedia audience. As a Buddhist myself, I don't think this article contributes to the big picture of Buddhism, which is supposed to be presented here. If you really think this is important, maybe you can add something in Buddhism in the West about this piece. Thanks. Zen Light (talk) 20:01, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Dear Zen Light, when You texted "This "Killing the Buddha" article is essentially a philosophical argument made by a western atheist against Buddhists," I hope by texting "Buddhists" You are talking about the persons who attempt to practice Buddhism as a religion ! And, I would specially like to post some text here to "Thank You" for Your comments: "....it is definitely an in-depth argument not suitable for the average Wikipedia audience." I have already accepted this above: "I may agree that the neuroscientist Harris' article may not hold much significance for a reader who wants an average level introduction to Buddhism." So, for now, as My Friends above are suggesting, I would refrain from pushing things in this section ! I think I will consider Your advice and move some excerpt from the piece to 'Buddhism in the West'. Thanks !! ← Abstruce 05:20, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not a forum or tool through which to inject your ideas on religion and specifically Buddhism onto readers no matter what guise you put it under. "a good knowledge of what Buddhism actually is and what Buddhism actually asks a person to do/go for" is not what this article is about. Someones opinion on what they thin buddhism "actually", as you eloquently put it, is and what they feel it asks people to "do/ go for" doesn't quite fit. If you want to add inforation by this author, I think it would be more appropriate to add it to the article Criticism of Buddhism. Thanks.--Jacksoncw (talk) 21:39, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
Buddhism: Undid revision 579153646 by Druksoogs. Unexplained removal of sourced content
Hello Joshua, I think the addition of the picture (with this text) by Tobby72 did not aim to illustrate the article but to introduce a critique (welcome!) which does not really fit into the main text of the article. It seems strange that the text does not describe the image content (original description: Monks in foreground with the southern portion of the dzong visible across the Mo Chhu). The critique is also redundant: the same sentence was added to the article "Criticism of Buddhism"/ accusation of violence (where it does fit). I do not know why Druksoog changed the image description but I think the result was not so bad. Best regards JimRenge (talk) 09:20, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
I think you're right. I'd missed the brackets; I was also not aware of the original addition. Thanks! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:15, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello Joshua, The reason why I changed the image description was because I felt it was put there primarily put there to highlight a cause. The refugee expulsion issue more of an ethnic issue from what I understand rather than a relgious issue. The text seems to suggest that Buddhist expelled all hindus however hinduism is practiced freely in Bhutan a substantial percentage of the population. I think until we can ascertain that it's a clear case of religious expulsion, that critique shouldn't there. Druksoogs (talk) 20:48, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
Such a section is common for most Wikipedia articles on specific faiths; I have added a section summarizing the article Criticism of Buddhism and also incorporating content relevant to Buddhism from Apologetics. It is important that this information be presented in a clear manner, to facilitate dialectical analysis of the differences between faiths; at the same time of course such sections should not descend themselves into either polemic or apologetic content; rather, they should merely summarize what exists and present it factually, in the interests of facilitating understanding (Some care must be taken also to avoid including in such material anything overtly racist or defamatory). It would be nice to see a separate article on the Buddhist apologetic tradition, as Buddhism is one of the religions where such a practice does exist, yet documentation regarding it is scarce on Wikipedia; I would also like to see more content on this article regarding the syncretic manner in which Buddhism integrates with other religions, for example, with Shinto (where the level of integration between the two faiths is somewhat striking to a Western observer). It might be interesting to combine this material with information on the polemic and apologetic traditions within Buddhism; in particular, since Buddhism can syncretically integrate with some other religions, to varying degrees, it would be interesting what belief systems different forms of Buddhism regard as absolutely compatible, somewhat compatible, or completely incompatible with their faith (for example, I would think the worship of Mara, as an extreme case, would be absolutely incompatible, akin to the relationship between Christianity and Satanism, but it would be interesting to the actual beliefs on this and related questions as espoused by Buddhist theologians).
I removed your section because it doesn't have valid references. You can't use a wikipedia article to reference another wikipedia article. Helpsome (talk) 14:34, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
I redirected the references to point at the references on the other article. Just a friendly suggestion, it would be better if when you see a minor technical problem like this, you fix it, rather than undoing the edit. Wgw2024 (talk) 02:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
I have 3 points to discuss here:
/1/ Various editors envision different views about what Wikipedia article is about. What is the purpose of Wiki article on Buddhism or Christianity? Is it – as Wgw2024 - says: “to facilitate dialectical analysis of the differences between faiths”? Or as further suggested: “ ...to combine this material with information on the polemic and apologetic traditions within Buddhism”? Such combination and analysis seems to be akin to ‘original research’ type of academic study. Readers of Wiki articles expect truthful and basic information about a given subject. That’s all an Encyclopedia usually offers. However, if such analysis of combined research already exist –it can be briefly mentioned (but without unnecessary dwelling on dialectical analysis and so on).
/2/ The sentence: “In Japan, a school of self criticism exists” is wrong. There is no such ‘school’. A sect or school in Buddhism is based on a tradition, doctrines, belongs to a branch of Buddhism, has followers, has a structure and activities. What is referred to as Critical Buddhism is not a school of thought that has any believer in it. It is a product of a view or opinion of one or two researchers whose work seems to be discontinued and of no interest. Wiki article about it is called a “stub”- there is no material to make it an article. (Apart from that: a Wiki article itself is not a RS to mention it here in the sentence about Criticism).
/3/ The article lacks information about Nichiren Buddhism, a branch of Mahayana based on the Lotus Sutra. Nichiren Buddhism is widespread in Japan with followers world wide. I will include mention about it in the future.SafwanZabalawi (talk) 01:53, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Dispute over the Buddha birth date have been settled?
The estimates for Buddha birth stretch as far back as 623 BC, but many scholars believed 390-340 BC a more realistic timeframe.
Now the new finding:
"Now, for the first time, we have an archaeological sequence at Lumbini that shows a building there as early as the 6th century BC," said archaeologist Prof Robin Coningham of Durham University, who co-led the international team, supported by the National Geographic Society