Talk:Karl Popper

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Former good article Karl Popper was one of the Philosophy and religion good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
August 17, 2007 Good article reassessment Delisted
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Religion Lutheranism (de jure) Humanitarianism and Agnosticism (de facto)?[edit]

Can anyone explain how Popper was a 'de jure' Lutherian, as it claims in the infobox? Which law was involved in making this determination? He appears to have been baptised as a Lutherian, but I can't see how this would establish any enduring legal status. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:42, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Somebody misusing the tag? Let's change it. Myrvin (talk) 16:50, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
In Austrian law, churches and religions with many members are organized as De:Körperschaft des öffentlichen Rechts, in effect being part of the state but cut off from almost all secular power. Membership in those bodies is attained by baptism (or whatever formal act the religion specifies), this membership is a legal status and has legal consequences. For example, the bodies can pass laws that apply to their members with respect to their internal affairs. Having said that, I think the current version is okay, too. --rtc (talk) 01:27, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

"part of their cultural assimilation, not as an expression of devout belief"[edit]

Wow, that is really offensive. Bunch of jerks. 99.247.1.157 (talk) 18:52, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

How about a spelling standard?[edit]

The article has both "defence" and "maneuvers".
It has "behaviour" and "behavior".
Could it have a single standard, like UK (Cambridge) or UK (Oxford)?
So, "defence", "manoeuvres", "behaviour". 99.247.1.157 (talk) 18:55, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out, we should comply with WP:ENGVAR and in this article consistently use UK spellings, with one standard being chosen for the article. I'se happier with Cambridge, but Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Spelling allows either so as long as it's consistent throughout the article... dave souza, talk 21:08, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
I've done some of this. I left one "behavior" because I think it was in a US quote. Myrvin (talk) 09:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm Canadian, but I too prefer Cambridge, in spite of Oxford's similarity to Canadian standards.
Respecting a source's spelling seems reasonable to everyone outside of the US. The Americans routinely rename places in Canada to match their spelling. They think we have "Harbors" and "Centers" in this country which we bloody well do not.
It is perfectly allowable to normalize (Cdn, Oxford) "behavior" as "behavio[u]r" to make it crystal clear that a standard is in force.
In Toronto, 99.247.1.157 (talk) 15:21, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Influenced by: Hegel ???[edit]

Let me put it this way: Quite unlikely (unless you want to interpret his polemic against Hegel as a sign that Popper was "influenced" by him).--94.220.209.68 (talk) 00:48, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Putting this back in. In Popper's later metaphysical works (see especially Objective Knowledge, chapter 3, section 5.2), he gave qualified support to Hegel's views. Let me quote literally from Objective Knowledge, chapter 8, section 2: "My various schemata such as P1 TT EE P2 may indeed be looked upon as improvements and rationalizations of the Hegelian dialectic schema" --rtc (talk) 00:32, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Grubl[edit]

The article and a couple of sources say this man's name was RAIMUND Grubl, and Popper was given his name as his middle name. However, in Unended Quest, Popper writes that this man's name was CARL Grubl. Does anyone know which is correct? - You'd think that Karl would know. Perhaps he was called Karl after Carl?? 08:35, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Conjectures and Refutations deletion[edit]

Recently I went to a page (a stub, really) with this Popper book title, and found that the bulk of the article text had been cribbed directly from the back cover of a Routledge edition of this volume (see below). I addressed the issue as best I could as an editor, to call attention to the issue, here [1] and in the article. I apparently did so too effectively—the article has been deleted in toto. (See also this edit: [].) I am transplanting the brief bit of the article's Talk here, from this page, anticipating it will be found and face the same fate as the article. This is all FYI, but followed with one request: Can C&R not be given its own subsection, within the article, so it can be linked to in other articles? Thanks for the consideration, and for all the dedicated hard work at this parent article. Le Prof 05:53, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

On Influence: Wittgenstein[edit]

On the german wikipedia, it quotes him comparing Wittgenstein with the catholic church, with him stating that he (Wittgenstein) tries to forbib any discussion about questions he (Wittgenstein) can't answer. Copied from german wikipedia (Source): "In Poppers mündlicher Doktorprüfung (Rigorosum) 1928 war Schlick Beisitzer, wobei es zum Streit kam, da Popper nach Schlicks Auffassung überzogene Kritik an dem von Schlick geschätzten Ludwig Wittgenstein übte; dieser wolle „wie die katholische Kirche die Diskussion sämtlicher Fragen verbieten, auf die er keine Antwort wisse“<ref>vgl. unter anderem Edmonds/Eidinow 2005</ref>."
So we can say that he was, at least early in his career, highly dismissive about Wittgenstein.
Has anyone sources that he changed his mind about him later on?188.101.113.87 (talk) 19:51, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

We'll Wittgenstein did change his mind later on.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 20:16, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
He did, but did Popper? :/ --188.101.116.117 (talk) 14:10, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
Lets just remove him as an influence in absence of sources to the contrary.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 14:59, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Students or workers or comrades[edit]

After a deletion of some uncited text by me, and its replacement by referenced material, an editor has reinstated and expanded the deleted words with referenced statements. However, that reinstatement has deleted my cited text. My words said that students took part in a demonstration in 1919 and some were killed, the latest reference [2] seem to be saying that workers marched and were shot. The reference also says that opper didn't know about the coup. I cannot see where it says he later found out. Earlier on in the text, we have "party comrades" in a "street battle". Popper himself says "But then came the catastrophe. One day in June 1919 a Party-sponsored demonstration of unarmed young comrades was fired upon by the police, and there were a number of deaths (eight if I remember rightly)."[3]. I suppose they could all be true, but there does seem to be confusion here. Myrvin (talk) 09:36, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

"I cannot see where it says he later found out." This is in fact from a different source, not yet cited: "In the aftermath, Popper learned that the protest was designed as part of a coup plotted by the Austrian Communists in cooperation with and under the influence of Bela Kun, the Hungarian Communist leader."[4] However, this secondary source does not provide a primary source for its claim. It may well be that the author read but misunderstood Hacohen. On the other hand, Hacohen does not make it explicit whether "[Popper] did not realize that it was part of a coup" refers to the demonstration or to his break with communism. So as you say, it could all be true. Unfortunately, Hacohen cites a draft of the autobiography which I don't have... On the other hand, it would not change Popper's point very much. He clearly says the demonstration was "instigated by the communists .. to help some communists to escape" and "Marxist theory demands that the class struggle be intensified" (Unended Quest p.32f). Perhaps we better mention the attempted coup without implying that Popper found out about it? I am not sure. --rtc (talk) 10:54, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
He certainly can't get his name right. Myrvin (talk)
That's true, so I don't think the source can be considered reliable. --rtc (talk) 20:56, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Making instrumentalism relevant[edit]

I invite comments on a proposed revision of Instrumentalism, incorporating the conflicting roles of Popper and Dewey in defining the movement and its dependence on induction, and showing current practice of those roles. See talk: Instrumentalism, entries 20 and 21.TBR-qed (talk) 19:27, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Citation: In 2004, philosopher and psychologist Michel ter Hark (Groningen, The Netherlands) published a book, called Popper, Otto Selz and the rise of evolutionary epistemology, ISBN 0-521-83074-5, in which he claimed that Popper took some of his ideas from his tutor, the German psychologist Otto Selz. Selz himself never published his ideas, partly because of the rise of Nazism which forced him to quit his work in 1933, and the prohibition of referring to Selz' work. Popper, the historian of ideas and his scholarship, is criticised in some academic quarters, for his rejection of Plato, Hegel and Marx.


Specially the bold: that should not be written like that. Probably written by mr ter Hark himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.2.235.216 (talk) 07:20, 16 September 2014 (UTC)