Talk:Moria (political party)

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Moriah with -h -- who can correct the article's title?[edit]

@Zero0000: The only source for this not-quite-a-party is the Knesset website (see "Reference"), where it's written, as intuitively expected, as Moriah, not Moria. Israel is famously careless about spelling & transliteration, but the Knesset website can be expected to uphold some standards. There is always a slight chance that Mr Peretz, MK, made up some Hebrew acronym which sounds like (Mount) Moriah, but is indeed MoRiA - maybe "MOre RIdiculous Abbreviations" or whatever; but how likely is that? Anyhow, no need to think too much about it, since the RELEVANT SOURCE indicates MoriaH, period.
It really doesn't matter much in itself, but like all mistakes, this one too proliferates. I.e., now this "Moria" is on the Moria disambiguation page, not the Moriah one, and some pedantic "local patriot" reverts any attempts at fixing it. And Google shows 170 hits for Peretz+Moria vs. 7 (!) for Peretz+Moriah. Such is the power of English WP!
So, WP veterans to the rescue! Add the -h and save the world!Arminden (talk) 18:59, 21 May 2015 (UTC)Arminden[reply]

No, WP:HEBREW#He (ה) at the ends of words is quite clear that "h" should not be used at the end of words like this. Number 5 7 19:45, 21 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

First, the solution to the dab-page problem is to put it on both; that's one of the functions of dab pages. As to the spelling of this article, it isn't so clear. #57 is correct about the general rule, but it also says there "It should be noted that most well-known Hebrew words with a final he are from the ancient period and already have a common Anglicized name (Torah, Mishnah, Hanukkah, etc.) These will keep their common transliteration in accordance with the first part of the guideline and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)." The question is whether this applies. The political party is very little mentioned in English, but I always thought (#57 will correct me if I'm wrong) that the name of the party is taken from that of Biblical Moriah which is extensively mentioned in English and overwhelmingly with a final "h". If that is true, I think "Moriah" should be used here too. We wouldn't change the spelling of Religious Torah Front into "Religious Tora Front" even if it occurred very rarely in English. Zero^talk 01:45, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Given that "Moriah" as mentioned in the Bible is a mountain, I would be very surprised if the party were named after it. Number 5 7 07:38, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Moriah is where Abraham almost sacrificed Isaac, and is commonly identified with the Temple Mount. That's plenty of reason! If not, what else can it mean? Zero^talk 13:41, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is also simply a Hebrew word meaning "Ordained by God". This is more likely in the context of it being founded by a member of an ultra-orthodox party (Shas). Number 5 7 15:01, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Zero0000: @Number 57: Folks, I see I got you started :) It almost looks like an online yeshiva forum, if there is such a thing (of course there is). But I didn't mean to have a contest of IQs here, although it's nice to see a good one. Rather, to help the WP user, and that's more straightforward. Just go and check Moriah (disambiguation) vs. Moria (disambiguation): when Hebrew, then with a final "h" is what's written all over it. 57, you can make as many very intelligent & knowledgeable remarks, but fact is, the only source for the Moriah party so far is ITS OWN KNESSET PAGE, and there it's written Moriah. Pretty much: end of discussion. That the above-mentioned statistical fact confirms it might be important, but secondary. You're doing what I call "arguing with reality". You might win the rhetorical contest, but you can't change the facts. Unless you come up with Peretz' own party platform where he claims to be "ordained by God" (reminds me of Caliph al-Hakim bi-amr Allah, but that guy was a certified megalomaniac who got a whole religion started), then you don't have a case and I would ask Zero to please be so kind and change the article's title to the due "Moriah (political party)".
I did all my homework and went transliterating, Google-translating, comparing... Mount Moriah, as well as this damn party, are written the same in Hebrew, מוריה, and nobody ever argued that the Mount should be written Moria in English. Now I hope that really puts this ridiculous story to bed. 57, time is far more than just money, let's stop wasting it. Zero, your turn please.Arminden (talk) 18:58, 24 May 2015 (UTC)Arminden[reply]

(a) the Knesset website is notoriously unreliable and inconsistent when it comes to spellings, so it using Moriah is no particular cause for moving the article to a title that conflicts with the guideline (we have numerous articles at titles different to that of the Knesset website spelling), and (b) Zero cannot move the article if there is opposition (which there is); you will need to use the WP:RM process. Number 5 7 21:59, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notorious? Could be, good you told me, I never bothered to do a study on the Knesset website or to search the Hebrew University PhD thesis library over it. So you win the shouting contest, reality loses, you stay king of the hill. About "opposition": there's a great irony here, you did indeed join Peretz in claiming a one-person faction matters. A good, substance-filled day to you too, Arminden (talk) 08:18, 25 May 2015 (UTC)Arminden[reply]