|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mormon Battalion article.|
Members of the Mormon Battalion
This article should include names of members of the Mormon Battalion. For example: Abraham Day, Arza Erastus Hinckley
- Seeing that there was over 500 members of the Mormon Battalion, i would make a mess out of the article. The captains of each company should be named, but probably little more. BraveFoot (talk) 02:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
While sequential, the structure and information provided in the article skirts the areas of greatest importance, including the overall impact of the march to California on the War and the lasting impact of the Battalion on Mormon western expansion. Plus, it appears to lean to the POV of the US military rather than the recuited Saints. Objections to restructuring?? Suggestions?? WBardwin 06:36, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
The structure is such because it is a cut and paste of a POV article from who knows where. I broke it into sections as a meager step toward wikification, but in reality gutting and rewriting is probably better for the articles long-term health. Interesting topic that few know much about. I'm willing to contribute writing and research, if you want to go after a chunk at a time... Dr U 00:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
- POV/perhaps copyvio article appears 17:53, 14 June 2005 188.8.131.52 (k duryee article). Manipulation since then probably removes it from any copyvio status, but the article is a real mess.
- Most of my sources are LDS POV, but some of them are well researched and annotated. Journal material from the soldiers (and some of their wives) is readily available, but what information I have from the army's perspective shows little respect for the Mormon recruits, probably because few of them were ever interested in becoming soldiers in the first place. When you are "called" to volunteer, your attitude, perception of your role and your respect for your officers is different than the average US army soldier of the time. Plus, representatives from the LDS leadership arrived in camp at intervals, and seemed to pull the soldiers in two directions. Authority and heirarchy was difficult on both sides.
- Should we come up with a new outline? WBardwin 05:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
- New outline is a good idea. We can then extract many facts from the article in its current form, and plug them into the new outline. After that, trash the current version, and post our working outline as the new article, and go from there, only adding properly referenced material. I'm game.
Dr U 05:40, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
- The outline is a good start, at least. I'll go through my books and try to organize some material. Some good stuff appears to be online as well. Wikipedia doesn't yet have an article on Col. Thomas L. Kane -- who was slightly involved in the Battalion. I have some Mormon information on him but he had a Civil War Career as well. Always something else to create. WBardwin 08:54, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
==Outline== ===Introduction=== ===Battalion's origins=== ====Army's reasons for creating battalion==== ====Mormon's reasons for cooperating==== ===Muster=== ====How the Mormons were organized==== ====Who/How of Army's choice for officers==== ===The March=== ====Place they went one==== =====things they did there===== ====Place they went 23==== =====things they did there===== ===Arrival in California=== ===Post arrival duties/reenlistees=== ===Aftermath=== ====Effects on the Mormon Church==== ====Effects on the U.S. Army==== ====Effects on California==== ====Effects on individual participants==== ===Legacy today=== ===External links=== ===Works cited=== Feel free to gut the above if your writing ability outshines mine, which isn't unlikely.
Dr U 05:59, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
This text was just deleted:
- Military Accolades
- Colonel Cooke honored the Mormon Battalion when he declared, "History may be searched in vain for an equal march of infantry. Half of it has been through a wilderness where nothing but savages and wild beasts are found, or deserts where, for want of water, there is no living creature. There, with almost hopeless labor we have dug deep wells, which the future traveler will enjoy. Without a guide who had traversed them, we have ventured into trackless table-lands where water was not found for several marches. With crowbar and pick and axe in hand, we have worked our way over mountains, which seemed to defy aught but the wild goat, and hewed a passage through a chasm of living rock more narrow than our wagons... Thus, marching half naked and half fed, and living upon wild animals, we have discovered and made a road of great value to our country."
Probably because it needs a reference - thought I would preserve it here. --Trödel 20:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
- If one does a quick search of "History may be searched in vain for an equal march of infantry" on google, or on google books, many sources can be found for various part of the quote, including:
- Philip St. George Cooke, "Cooke's Journal of the March of the Mormon Battalion, 1846–1847," in Ralph P. Bieber, ed., Exploring Southwestern Trails, 1846–1854 (1939), 239–40. As quoted at http://www.lds.org/gospellibrary/pioneer/12_Council_Bluffs.html
- Roberts, Brigham Henry (1919) The Mormon Battalion: its history and achievements, Deseret News, p. 52
- McClintock, James H. (1921) Mormon Settlement in Arizona, p. 15
- Utah State History (a division of Utah Department of Community and Culture), Markers and Monuments Database, Mormon Battalion Monument (2) Markers
- Bigler, David L. and Bagley, Will, ed. (2000) Army of Israel: Mormon Battalion Narratives, University of Utah Press, ISBN 978-0-87062-297-7
- Needless to say, it is a valid quote. -- 184.108.40.206 (talk) 05:33, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
re: unexplained deletion
According to several online sources the citation is: Philip St. George Cooke, "Cooke's Journal of the March of the Mormon Battalion, 1846–1847," in Ralph P. Bieber, ed., Exploring Southwestern Trails, 1846–1854 (1939), 239–40 I don't have direct access to the Bieber book (obviously out of print) or to Cooke's Journal - does it need further checking? Blbachman 21:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
removed cleanup tag
I took off the tag because the article seems to have improved a lot since it was put on. The only real serious thing is that the introduction is really long, and this should be fixed. Wrad 07:10, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I have deleted the following sentence in from this article in this edit: "This remains as the longest single military march in U.S. history." This is simple incorrect, and is an item of Mormon folklore/Mormon urban myth this was recently readdressed by the LDS Church Historical Department in Legacy: Episode 39: Mormon Myths on the Mormon Channel. Please do not add this popular but incorrect notion back to the article. -- 220.127.116.11 (talk) 22:06, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
File:Mormon Battalion Ed Fraughton.jpg Nominated for Deletion
|An image used in this article, File:Mormon Battalion Ed Fraughton.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests July 2011
|A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.|
Photo for needs citation
I have taken two photos of the Monument outside Santa Fe, which the article says needs citation (of what's written on the plaque). Since I have a photo of the plaque, it should serve as citation. How do I add a photo? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pictom (talk • contribs) 18:22, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
- Please see c:Commons:Welcome, c:Commons:First steps, c:Commons:FAQ, wp:Wikimedia Commons, and wp:Images. -- 18.104.22.168 (talk) 15:24, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
THANKS but too complicated. I added the photo. If anyone can figure out how to add this to serve as a citation,go ahead.
I also have a file of the entire monument, which I'll try to add now.
I'm confused by the selection stating I have the copyright (or something). I took the photo but I did not create the monument. (This file is my own work.) If it was asking me if I created the monument... well, just delete the whole thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pictom (talk • contribs) 19:56, 18 June 2014 (UTC)