User talk:Bovineboy2008/Archives/2010/November

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WP:FILM October 2010 Newsletter

The Octoberr 2010 issue of the WikiProject Film newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. If you have an idea for improving the newsletter please leave a message on my talk page. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 00:39, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 November 2010

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Small Craft on a Milk Sea

Sure No worries--it's a simple mistake and it was quickly reverted. I briefly considered posting to your talk, but there is honestly no point and there are a million things that are more important on Wikipedia alone. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Kaaryasthan

In the article Kaaryasthan, you deleted the following line from the "Lead section" - Kaaryasthan marks the 100th film of Dileep as actor. Could you please advise where in this article this information can be kept, since this is a major highlight of this film.
Anish Viswa 14:12, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I would say that piece of trivia would fit better on Dileep's article. We tend to avoid similar data when we say a film is an actor's last appearance because, although significant for that actor, it isn't that significant for the rest of the cast, the screenplay, the soundtrack, production, etc. So definitely in Dileep's article (especially if you can find a source talking about it, which would make it sourced and notable), but I'm not sure it would be best in the film's article, unless that fact was used in production, or maybe to get funding for the film. Either way, it would need a source saying why that trivia is notable, not just the fact that it is true. Hope that helps! BOVINEBOY2008 14:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello Bovine, I noticed you removed the Crew details from Chithrakuzhal article. Where in a film article can we keep the details of the crew, which are not part of standard infobox, to give them due credit for their work.
eg:) Dialogue writer, sound recordist, mixer, lyricist, costumer, singers etc. who are part of the film. Thanks in advance,
Anish Viswa 14:56, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

If they are notable. The parameters included in the infobox tend to be the roles that are considered notable and are thus most covered by third-party sources. Now, it can be different for every film, certain crew members can be worth mentioning in an article, for example (and sorry for my lack of knowledge of Malayalam films) Michael O'Connor won an Academy Award for his costume design of the 2008 film The Duchess, so it would be quite notable to include him in the article. We shouldn't list every person involved in a film indiscriminately, see WP:INDISCRIMINATE, nor should Wikipedia be a substitute for a credits database. We need to be including what is notable and not much more. BOVINEBOY2008 15:02, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

You still don't understand? It's pretty straight forward

-You- use the talk if you disagree. I gave you several points as to why NA is a misnomer. You in return have not provided anything to support that NA is better. It is popular slang for North America, as almost all video games released in the US are also released in the Canada. I know, I'd grown up using it too. However I can't say that anymore (And I probably have Wikipedia to thank for that level of fact-checking) because I know it's not right. And just because something is popular that doesn't give it credence or validity above accurate terms and definitions. Especially not here.

1) NA has not and does not stand for North America. According to Wikipedia NA is the country code for Namibia. "North America" does not have such a designation like, say, Europe (EU). In addition to that, according to Wikipedia, the current definition for North America is Canada, The United States and Mexico. So every game that is listed as a "North American release" has a Mexican launch date? A scant few in fact do, the vast majority however do not. So that's a major factual error spread across hundreds of thousands of articles. Northern America is the term that identifies Canada at the US only. Still, "Northern America" does not have country-code style abbreviation and if it did it would not be NA.

1a) This causes confusion to those who are unfamiliar with video games. As Wikipedia does not revolve around games, or even the English language there will be many people who know what NA stands for and be thrown by the fact that almost every video game article lists an NA release date that for some reason links to the article of the United States. THIS is the confusion that will be caused. By NA, not U/C.

2) U/C has been the video game designation for Northern America releases since as far back as I can remember (And I can remember pretty far back). U = United States, C = Canada. This confuses you? If a game is a US exclusive the box says "U", if Canadian only, "C". In those cases where there is a full North American release the box says U/C/M. Guess what M Stands for. This is a standard for the console video game industry, and not once has an alternate designation been used. Feel free to cite me a correction. Just go to one of the DDR articles listed as an American release that has console cover artwork. Open the file and look at the upper right-hand corner and tell me what you see. Go to a game shop, do the same thing. I'll wait.

I have now, without actually needing to, provided key points that support U/C over NA and they reference themselves. Go to the country code article, the Namibia article, the North and Northern America article if you need empirical evidence. And until you can provide research and evidence that overshadows what I just showed you do NOT simply revert edits claiming that everyone else must talk while you dictate. I'm not even going to try and modify all of the effected articles over this. As you have proven with your actions, there would be a uproar no matter how correct the changes are. So I simply regulate this knowledge to the DDR articles for now. I've brought this to light before to the community but no one showed interest in even investigating the matter, much less a desire to change the slang NA to the proper U/C. Whatever, eventually it will have to be addressed.

If you disagree, use the talk. I'll show you how to treat a disagreement on Wikipedia by waiting for you to state your case against U/C for a couple of days. If you can't come up with anything I will change the infobox to reflect more accurate terminology. If you continue to deface the article after that it will be dealt with as needed.  æronphonehome  15:08, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Wow, umm...didn't mean to make you so upset. I don't really have a problem with U/C, I understand that. What I have a problem with is the linking to North America. U/C, as you said stands for United States and Canada, which is not North America. If someone doesn't know what U/C stands for, it would make sense for them to click on the link for clarification (although articles should be able to stand alone with their content, but this is a different article). But the North America article does not once use the U/C abbreviation. Personally, US/CAN would be a clearer abbreviation, but NA is used on every other article, making it consensus. And since you were the one who boldly edited, and I reverted, it would be responsible of you if you actually followed WP:BRD and discussed why you think the article should go against standards. You haven't convinced me, so why don't you try Talk:Dance Dance Revolution (2010 video game), Template talk:vgrelease, or WT:VG. I'd gladly join a conversation in any of those places.

PS> NA indicates it stands for Nambia, North America and 26 other things. PPS> A good review of WP:V and WP:CIVIL, wouldn't hurt either :) BOVINEBOY2008 15:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

You did not upset me, if you think I wrote all of that in frustration you need to assume positive intent. I'm willing to talk over any issue that I have with anybody (On or off Wikipedia). Sadly, that's not always the case with the person doing to the disagreeing. You're talking, thank you. Did you know that puts you in a very high percentile among other editors? It's both excellent and depressing at the same time.
I'll start with your suggestion (US/CAN). You are the first person to actually suggest an alternative (see above) and I must say I rather like the idea. It fits in an info box and actually addresses the problem you had, US and CAN can be individually linked to their countries leaving no room for error. It still creates the same rift problem, no other articles use this method either. Again, it's a problem that needs addressing. If we can pull enough admins away from Final Fantasy FA projects that is. On console games each country listed is actually only represented by one letter J = Japan, M = Mexico, etc... so that makes it difficult to see a link due to the smaller font size. But just about all the other regions of release have proper codes to go by JA, EU, NZ, AU, etc... so U/C was used to correct the only one that wasn't a valid code. I'll try it out and see how/if others respond to it.
Now, about the other things you said... If you looked, all the U/C links actually take you to the Northern America article. At first they were linked to North America, which is incorrect. That was fixed several months ago by me. So the link and term is actually correct and it answers its own question.
"What does U/C mean?" *click* "Oh, Northern America... Canada and the United States. I get it now, that must be what the U/C on the front of all my games means. Cool."
That's how clicking through explains the term. And no, the term itself doesn't need referencing within EVERY article. There's a certain degree of common understanding within Wikipedia. This is why dates are not wikilinked. Everyone who can read should have a general understanding of what the word October means and why there are numbers following it. The fact that NA is used on a great deal of video game articles does not make it a consensus. It makes it widespread. Again, popularity is not a rationale for anything. It just means that when this issue gets dealt with our work will be cut out for us. Probably a bot's job. But if you judge what you do on Wikipedia by how much work it entails then you have the wrong idea about why Wikipedia is here.
You cited WP:BRD, is that not what I'm doing? If you knew of that, why didn't -you- adhere to guidelines? The order of events was that I made the change, you reverted, I explained the reasons reverting back, and you reverted a second time. I'm being civil, more so I'm actually making a case, and you need your advice more than I do. If you're not convinced, oh well. You don't have to be. Previous attempts to bring this up have failed to generate any traction. Feel free to give it a shot of your own if it still bothers you, I'll just link to this discussion to save time. :P  æronphonehome  17:57, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
PS. NA is an unreferenced disambiguation page (as it should be). All articles on disambiguations should mention and reference the ambiguous term. *click through North America* There is no mention of "NA" as any kind of shortening or abbreviation anywhere in the entire article referenced or otherwise. Thanks for pointing that out, North America shouldn't even be on the NA page according to guidelines. In addition, if NA is really THAT ambiguous a term then it really should be avoided when we're referring one thing specifically all the way across the board.
PPS. We both know that North America is the wrong link anyways... Northern America was never listed to begin with. Nor does the Northern America article have any referenced mention of "NA". Same conclusion.
I guess I'm just intimidated by the wall of text that appeared on my talk :) Nothing wrong with a little discussion though, which I'm glad you did! Either way, this works for me. We'll see if anyone disagrees. BOVINEBOY2008 05:22, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Infobox

Hey thanks for the quick lesson on Scott Pilgrim vs. the World. Just a tad peeved we got it down here six months late and at the end of the day it ended up being extremely limited showing. Should've read beforehand, eh? Would adding US/CANADA release dates be okay for the infobox though?--Cpt ricard (talk) 05:59, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

No problem, its kind of an obscure guideline that if you don't know about it, it would be hard to find. I would say its the same story for Canada as it is for Mexico. SPvW is an American film, so the Canadian release date isn't (that) notable. It may be worth noting in the prose though. BOVINEBOY2008 06:02, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

The Signpost: 8 November 2010

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HP3

The stag is quite important, it's related to James Potter's nickname and animagus species, it's featured in at least 2 other books, and it is a big part of why Harry thinks he's seeing his father across the lake. Also, having a source for something doesn't necessarily make it more important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.17.208.152 (talk) 18:47, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

It does on Wikipedia. See WP:N. BOVINEBOY2008 20:31, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
"[...]notability determines whether a topic merits its own article." I'm not asking for a new article. I could also quote a book from the 40's that states that cigarettes are beneficial for health, would you allow that just because it has a source?
It is something that was left out that would resurface in other books, same as the character of Stan Shunpike. I don't put every difference, like the shrunken heads or the fact that the tunnel out of the castle wasn't high enough for them to walk. The stag is a very important nexus to his father, as I said earlier, and Dementors glide. Both the stag and the gliding Dementors are mentioned in the fifth book, when Arabella Figg has to testify in the ministry hearing, and the stag helps the muggle borns escape the ministry at the end of the book. A doe guides Harry to the sword in book 7, related to his mother, his father and Snape. How can it be a doe if patronuses are blasts of energy? These are important differences, and the sources are the books themselves- it doesn't get any more "primary source" than that.
You could also wait and see what the rest of Wikipedia thinks of the edit, instead of repeatedly reverting it by yourself, as if you owned the article. You may say that I, in turn, am repeatedly reinstating my edit, but that is only because you do not give it a chance to be analyzed by other members of the community, and because I trust the actual book to be a source. 190.17.208.152 (talk) 15:37, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
Hem hem... 190.17.208.152 (talk) 04:57, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Regarding VGChartz

Hi,

Just wondering why VGChartz (GamrReview) can't be used as a 'reception' source for video game pages? Also if their is some guidelines or process for a publication to be added to the list please let me know.

Thanks

Alex St-Amour (talk) 05:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

See WP:VG/RS. I understand that VGChartz is disallowed because of its numbers, but I would rather it get approved for reception before it was used. Just use that talk page. BOVINEBOY2008 05:41, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

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Gleek BS

Great work on the barnstar image...it looks great!! CTJF83 chat 00:04, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Much appreciated! And you definitely deserve it. BOVINEBOY2008 19:50, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 November 2010

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BS

User:Bovineboy2008/Awards CTJF83 chat Awarded- 03:05, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks CTJF83! You are too kind. I'm gonna go hang this up. BOVINEBOY2008 04:59, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
Sounds good to me...any projects you wanna work on? CTJF83 chat 23:04, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
I have a couple ideas floating around, but I can't get too tied in Wikipedia right now. I'm currently studying in Budapest and need to make sure I focus on that real-world stuff more. BOVINEBOY2008 06:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
For sure! sounds fun! Let me know when you have time, and want to work on a project. CTJF83 chat 00:42, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Image tagging for File:Dear Doctor.jpg

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Dead Space: Aftermath

Hello, I converted it unilaterally into a redirect, and think it should stay so for the moment, but re-converting it into an article[1] is not vandalism.[2]. Juts nit-picking, almost all of your reverts seem to be both well-founded and well explained. --Tikiwont (talk) 21:15, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I realized that a split second after I clicked the button. The edit was in good-faith, but the article created had such little information. I need to slow down a little... BOVINEBOY2008 21:38, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Write True

List of highest-grossing Tamil-language films that not right information 4.Singam 90.C 5.Ayan 80.C —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pranavanps (talk • contribs) 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't quite understand. Are you talking about this article? I have very little knowledge about Tamil films and their grosses, so I'm not sure to what you are referring. BOVINEBOY2008 09:00, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Image tagging for File:Double Take film.jpg

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The Signpost: 22 November 2010

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Tb

Hello, Bovineboy2008. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mr. Perfect (film).
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Thanks, and you too! BOVINEBOY2008 22:40, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
And to let you know, User:Sodabottle is an excellent advisor when you are giving consideration to AFDing a questionable or stubby Indian cinema article. Whenever my own google-foo falls short, I can always depend on his lingustic prowess. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 02:53, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
Excellent. I'll take note. BOVINEBOY2008 05:18, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

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iCarly episode split

I am going to start working on the split on my project page. I am going to try to find as much production info as I can find. I have seen other acricles that don't even have that information. Any way I was wondering Do you know of artciles for the season that have been created but redirected and when time comes I will post them there. If you want you can look at any of the work I am going to do opn my project page when it is up and make any changes you thing that it might need. Just let me know you made some changes. I am hoping to get this up and running by the end of next month.I do agree what Aussielenged said on the talk page —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joey Tomson (talk • contribs) 19:04, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

65_Redroses

Thanks for trying to help with the DISPLAYTITLE on 65_Redroses. But if I understand this template correctly, shouldn't that allow the underscore symbol in the title to appear at the top of the page, and in category listings? Because I still don't see it, at least on my browser. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:14, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

It isn't showing in mine either. I raised the question here, although it doesn't seem to be a popular talk page. I'm not sure where else to ask. BOVINEBOY2008 22:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes, and I see you also raised it here. So you tried everywhere I can think of. Oh well, the page is there and is getting quite a bit of editing traffic, that's the important thing. good try, Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:42, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Looks like User:Kotniski fixed it. BOVINEBOY2008 09:19, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 November 2010

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SpongeBob characters

I seem to have an problem with this user in List of SpongeBob SquarePants characters who is organizing the characters based on his opinion. − Jhenderson 777 16:54, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

He's also been changing the image to one to better suit his opinion. He hasn't provided a license for it, so its up for SD. Let's see if he responds to your post on the talk page (I saw it) and we'll go from there. BOVINEBOY2008 16:58, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for sorting out the license for the image after it was changed. I was notified that it was lacking copyright info. --Bill (talk|contribs) 20:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
No problem. I'm only worried that Hoppybunny is going to come back and revert to his preferred image, and I don't want to be accused of edit warring. Is this something I should be taking to an Admin board? BOVINEBOY2008 20:49, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
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