User talk:Victoriaearle

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Formerly User:Truthkeeper88

Petrus Christus Nativité Haute résolution.jpg

Nativity (Christus)[edit]

Tickled pink. Can't wait. Well done. Ceoil (talk) 01:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! It's still over a month away (and a month when I won't be around much!), but it's nice to have gotten through. Thanks for the tweaks to the blurb, btw. Looking forward to working on St. Francis - but I'll be out for a while. Thanksgiving away, work, etc. Victoria (tk) 03:59, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
re above: don't worry about silly, trivil things, and glad we are both taking a long view. Reading and out, zzzz, best. Ceoil (talk) 04:06, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, very much a long view. Which is okay with me atm. Best to you too! Victoria (tk) 04:16, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
P.s. - I'm glad you stopped by. I meant to mention over on the St Francis talk that I'll be out for a while, but didn't get around to it. I might be around a bit tomorrow but after that closing up shop for a few weeks. Very bitterly cold here, btw. Early winter again. In case you're interested in a weather report (I know, it's not FB here, but whatever). Take care, Victoria (tk) 04:31, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
I am very proud for the Nativity. It was a great idea, and will get huge page views; such exposure for Christus :) :). Will we say around x-mass for refocusing on the Francis joint? Ceoil (talk) 12:05, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds about right. Second half of December things will ease up for me. Victoria (tk) 13:55, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
P.s - You've been busy! Really happy to see RvdW's Altar of Saint John. Lots of source overlap between that, the Nativity & Memling's St John Altarpiece, so I might jump in there too. Victoria (tk) 14:31, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Nativity (Christus)[edit]

Congratulations on getting this to featured article status. As I understand it, the plan is to get it in as today's featured article for Christmas Day, and the featured picture of it will be held back to give the article another go round sometimes next year? If it's not going in TFA this year, we could probably arrange a December 24 TFP, if you'd like, and the article could run next year. Let me know what your plans are, and we'll sort things out. Adam Cuerden (talk) 12:13, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

On a related note, once I get some sources from Ceoil (we've patched up our differences once we realised we were both completely misunderstanding each other), we should get Leal Souvenir past that tiny last hump. Just hoping nothing stupid happens, like someone closing the FAC. (or, at least, closing it as no promotion - we could get this done after promotion, actually. Hmm...) Adam Cuerden (talk) 12:16, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Adam, the Christus is now at TFA. If you'd like to have it go next year, then I suppose that's the place to discuss it. I'm about to go off-line for a week, and generally can't be around much until about mid-Dec. It did occur to me, when I wrote the blurb, that the image is tiny. If we really want to deck the halls for Christmas, I don't see any reason not to run the article and the pic on Christmas day. Re the Leal, I posted at FAC because the discussion is getting a little fragmented. Unless Ceoil and KL object, I think the thing to do for now is to comment out that sentence from Campbell - which I've gone ahead and done (boldly!). I think the text still flows okay without it, but understand if it gets reverted - since I don't know Greek, haven't a clue as to how important that particular sentence and quote is. Oh one other thing, I saw your mention of writing the FGM blurb on Ceoil's page: maybe ask someone else to write it? I'm sure SlimVirgin could, and Johnuniq has been active there too, so he'd be able to. It is a difficult page to read. Anyway, that's about it. I'm around, sporadically, today, and then gone. Victoria (tk) 16:05, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
If we can get it on TFA this year, think that's best. Having the Featured Picture up a different year is better though, as the Picture of the Day text is based on the relevant article, so there'd be a lot of repetition if we tried to do both at once. I just wanted to find out if you had put the article forwards for Christmas day yet, so we could get things right. =) Adam Cuerden (talk) 16:07, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Ok. Yes, I did it as soon as the FAC closed. I knew I wouldn't be around much between now and xmas, so needed to get it done. Victoria (tk) 16:18, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
As featured picture for the 25th, I would like to suggest finding a good enough reproduction of Rogier's colombia altarpiece. I would be happy to supply the accompaning article. At least it doesnt have any Greek inscriptions. Ceoil (talk) 16:33, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
That's lovely! And I'm surprised we don't have an article for it yet. I was thinking about suggesting the Portinari Altarpiece but the image isn't any good. I much prefer the van der Weyden. I could help write the article by xmas. There's always next year too. But I do like the idea of very festive main page on xmas, so a different nativity is a good idea. Victoria (tk) 17:51, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
I should probably warn that File:Illustrated_London_News_-_Christmas_Truce_1914.jpg is scheduled for the 25th this year, since it's the 100th anniversary of the Christmas truce during World War I (and, if we're lucky, that'll be replaced by an even better copy before it runs). However, we currently have nothing for Christmas Eve, and, to the best of my knowledge, nothing for Day of the Magi or Easter. Adam Cuerden (talk) 18:12, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Christmas Eve sounds good to me. Adam, if you are up for this, I'll start the artice tonight, Victoria can help when she next has time, if you can find a reproduction that would pass at FP. Ceoil (talk) 18:26, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
The one thing that I should warn is that if a painting isn't available at high enough quality, there's often little one can do. But I'll check for it, and, if not, will see what I can find. Adam Cuerden (talk) 19:40, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Ok. There is also the earlier Nativity, by Robert Campin, an unfairly overlooked painter on wp. Ceoil (talk) 19:45, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Initial checks find:

I haven't checked for Campin yet, I'll do that on the two best art sites now.

Though, honestly? While I'd still love to have that crucifixion for Easter, might I suggest / ? We don't really have enough on Dürer. Adam Cuerden (talk) 20:07, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

I'd forgotten about File:Illustrated_London_News_-_Christmas_Truce_1914.jpg - sorry about that! It's obviously a good choice given the anniversary. Of the others, given a choice I like the Columba altarpiece if we get one that's good enough for FP. I also love the movement and colors in the Campin Nativity. But I'm easy. Just leave a msg here if work needs to be done to flesh out an article before xmas. I'm more than willing to carve out some time for it. Oh, and yes, van der Weyden's Crucifixion Diptych (van der Weyden) is very nice - one of my favorites! Victoria (tk) 21:34, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Unfortunately, sometimes what you'd like to get and can isn't the same. All the ones I linked, though, are high-resolution. We MUST do the Crucifixion Diptych for Easter, though. Adam Cuerden (talk) 21:52, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I understand. I'm sure you and Ceoil will come up with something that's really nice for 24th. I'm off now, sorry. Victoria (tk) 22:25, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
I have a lot of material on Dürer, books and journal articles, espically the drawings. Ceoil (talk) 22:51, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
The Gerard David Adoration is interesting, but thinking it out, I am inclined more towards a Dürer. Ceoil (talk) 00:35, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Mary Wollstonecraft Award[edit]

Marywollstonecraft.jpg Mary Wollstonecraft Award
The Mary Wollstonecraft Award is awarded to contributors who have helped improve the coverage of women writers and their work on Wikipedia through content contributions, outreach, community changes and related actions. In particular, thank you for your efforts with the WikiProject Women writers start-up; your ideas and contributions are much appreciated. --Rosiestep (talk) 23:21, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! I don't feel that I deserve it because I did very little there, but thrilled to see the project up and running. Victoria (tk) 00:17, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Copyright violations in Toni Morrison article[edit]

Victoria: From the sublime to the swamp—I've found copyright violations in the Early life and career section of theToni Morrison article. The copied material is from a book published in 2006. Several of the sentences in the section at TM were in the article before 2006, but most of the section at TM was added later than 2006. I confirmed the rest of the section was added after 2006 (an explanation is on the TM talk page). If you are not around or busy, no problem. But, I'd be thankful if you can take a look at the article talk page (I reverted all the edits ever made by a new editor). Enjoy the turkey season! Phil—Neonorange (talk) 23:37, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Phil, thanks for noticing and bringing to my attention. When I first looked I thought it was probably a student editor (end of semester projects are due next week for most colleges), and my inclination now is to leave in your changes and then tidy in the new year. W. B. Yeats is an issue right now too. Victoria (tk) 00:17, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you Victoria. I will comb through the TM article to identify exactly what is copied. At first light, it seems there may be a common source that 'Feminist Study' and 'TM' drew from. What I find, but can't fix myself, I'll leave on the article talk page. Phil (voco) —02:30, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
I looked at it briefly but haven't had time to sort through the edits. I noticed you left messages on user pages, which is helpful. Basically the page is in poor shape and could do with a complete rewrite, and I'm thinking I might be able to get some work done there when the semester ends. I can't get to it now. I'll have to find sources too. Do you have access to Jstor or Questia? If not, I think subscriptions are still available; both are good for literature. Victoria (tk) 18:21, 1 December 2014 (UTC)


In your shoes I would either revert to the last decent version, or take it off my watchlist and let them do what they want. It's not worth you getting stressed over for one nanosecond, especially not when you have your own work to do. Let me know if I can do anything to help. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:03, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

I've done both. I had to be here today because I told my students I'd pace them with their final projects by writing one of a similar length here. But I've failed miserably. Which is good, because I'm always telling them that a 7 page paper can't be written in a day! Anyway thanks for the offer and the help. I'm leaving now until the semester is finished. Victoria (tk) 23:17, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
Best of luck with your work. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:28, 1 December 2014 (UTC)


Victoria, do you know any good source that covers this topic? Or Ceoil  ? at the Madonna of the Book by Botticelli, because I can't find any online references for this sentence: this painting, as in other large series of Botticelli's, the Madonna is portrayed as being serious, thoughtful and concentrated. A more intellectual relationship between mother and son, rather than a loving one, so unlike the works painted by Raphael Sanzio, in which often she looks at her child smiling. - The Madonna of the Book is now nominated for DYK, and it is loosely based on a translation from the Spanish Wiki. This sentence is from the Spanish article. --Hafspajen (talk) 19:12, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

It's a lovely painting! I noticed it a couple of weeks ago at Commons when I was browsing through the nativity category - I didn't know it was at DYK. I can't find that sentence in the source [1], and probably good that you commented it out, [2]. If I have time tonight, I'll try to see dig around and see what I can find about it. Victoria (tk) 22:45, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, it was my doing - that article. I nominated that as a featured picture, and I was simply desperate, when I noticed the article - that was only two lines. So - I had to do something with it otherwise the guys at the FP will bite my head of. Now it is FP - and 6+7=13 found it and nominate it... while I was travelling, off for two weeks - and .. well it needs some attention from someone who is an expert. Hafspajen (talk) 00:54, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
I've copyedited a bit and checked the sources. I think it's okay for DYK now; I took Christus' Nativity through DYK at this time last year using online sources, which I subsequently swapped out. I did remove a duplicated source (Ashe) and not sure you need that blog anyway, but I can't get into the Dallas site. I've searched for you but not finding a lot in a quick search; I am finding material about this Madonna - also quite beautiful. Anyway, the entry in this google book adds a little, but not much more than what you've got. I'll leave for you to add, and can maybe swing through again tomorrow for another fast copyedit. Good luck with it. Victoria (tk) 01:26, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Add: per this the Raphael Sanzio is a different painting, so to the original question, I'd remove the section you've commented out. It'll still be in history, and we might find it at some point. Or maybe not. Victoria (tk) 01:29, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you very much. It is indeed an improvement, much better now. Very god job. That sentence - well it was maybe from the books cited by the Spanish, and they are right about one thing, there is a different air in Raphael's paintings -even if I like Botticelli much better - but it didn't really added much, anyway.
  • Thanks again, this was a tremendous help. Hafspajen (talk) 01:50, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Hafspajen I won't get over there tonight for another copyedit, but if it runs around Christmas time, which it should, I'll make sure it's in good shape. For a hook I thought you might consider mentioning the lapis lazuli. Something like "Did you know that a recent restoration of Madonna of the Book revealed Botticelli used lapis lazuli for the Virgin's robe?" That's in the Australian source and easily checked, but if you do suggest it check my wording first to make sure it's not too close to the source. I've written it off the top of my head without looking at the source. Victoria (tk) 00:38, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for the link. I hadn't looked at the DYK. Leave to you to sort out hooks. Victoria (tk) 22:29, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your excellent work. We have a hook with the lapis lazuli, Template:Did you know nominations/Madonna of the Book (Botticelli) but the reviewer wished to have something more Christmas-ish. Hafspajen (talk) 01:04, 5 December 2014 (UTC)


By the way have you noticed this article - great potential - but not much right now-> Fantastic art.This what the French did with Art fantastique. Hafspajen (talk) 01:53, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Today's featured article/December 25, 2014[edit]

Gratz, your TFA day is coming up. I want to put one or two words in parentheses after trompe-l'oeil in "trompe-l'oeil sculpted reliefs", so the readers will at least have a clue what you're saying without clicking ... suggestions? "Illusory", maybe? - Dank (push to talk) 02:12, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Dank, and congrats btw! I'm thrilled for you and the rest of the crew. I've put in faux and removed trompe-l'oeil to avoid parenthesis, otherwise I'm worried it'll be overwhelmed with explanatory subclauses at the top of the blurb, if that makes sense. Thanks for asking - and basically I'm no good at writing blurbs so not fussed what you do with it. Victoria (tk) 02:39, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
It's exciting, isn't it? Faux is even better. See, you are good at writing summaries! - Dank (push to talk) 03:20, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it is exciting! Victoria (tk) 00:38, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Today's Featured Article: Notification[edit]

This is to inform you that Nativity (Christus), which you nominated at WP:FAC, will appear on the Wikipedia Main Page as Today's Featured Article on 25 December 2014. The proposed main page blurb is here; you may amend if necessary. Please check for dead links and other possible faults before the appearance date. 23:31, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

(Sorry for duplicating the notification. I send these notes automatically. Brianboulton (talk) 23:31, 4 December 2014 (UTC))

Thanks Brianboulton for the notification. Belated congrats to you too!! Victoria (tk) 00:38, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, Victoria, for this outstanding Christmas gift! I small one can be found on top of my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 01:35, 25 December 2014 (UTC)


The Nativity Robert Campin
Have you seen this? It is a rather high resolution file, but a bit dark, though. Is it dark or light, I don't know. File:Robert Campin The Nativity.jpgHafspajen (talk) 20:40, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello. I'm verry happy to see my picture here ! When I take pictures in museum, I always try to respect the original I see with the light that is not always perfect. In post production I never try to make the best picture (as a post card or an image for a chocolat box), that explains why the image is a bit dark. I don't want to make the visitor desappointed when he see the painting. If you want to work from the original, you can send me an email and I'll send you back a RAW picture. Have a nice day from France. --Yelkrokoyade (talk) 06:38, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi Yelkrokoyade, it's a lovely image and the resolution if very high. Sometimes I think the higher the resolution the darker the image in thumb size, but I don't see any need to change it. I was just playing around. Thanks, though, for stopping by. Victoria (tk) 18:25, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
The detail is amazing, but it's a little too dark for my taste. I've tried cropping a piece of it so see if I could lighten in and came up with this. Problem is that the file is too large for me to download and tweak all of it, but maybe I can take one of the smaller versions. If it's okay with Ceoil I'd prefer to use a lighter version for Christus' Natitvity where it's not the lead/main image but simply there to illustrate a point. Anyway, I'll play with it some more. Sorry, I pulled my comments last night btw - was very tired and wanted to think about it a bit. Victoria (tk) 17:05, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
No, your article, your choice. Switch at will Victoria, an damm them all to hell :) Ceoil (talk) 17:07, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
We still have time - and if I play around with it I might get a good compromise. Anyway, I just managed to kick some time free so I'm about to dive into St. Francis reading before it gets away from me. Just to warn you, I tried moving the gallery up a while ago but there's a ton of white space on my computer, so that might get moved around a bit too. Would prefer to take van Eyck notes today though than deal with images. Victoria (tk) 17:16, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Understood. I'll take you forgivable crankiness and raise you todays version of my user page. You are usually right, so free pass V. Ceoil (talk) 17:27, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
I just slid in here for a few moments; sort of saw your page but haven't read it. Cranky? Yes, I'm very cranky at this time of year, generally. Will be for a few more weeks. But this is when I find WP relaxing, immersing myself in pretty things away from the crowds and all the other work. Victoria (tk) 17:48, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Ps, please go ahead and snatch whatever you want re St. Francis from the sandbox - don't know when I'll be back to build on it, and would prefer to see it in the article. Also would love to collab with you on Isabella's page. Which apparently is not a van der Weyden but that attrib leans on the perfection of Portrait of a Lady, which is perfect, and Isabella is not, apparently, perfect. And you've written the JvE's re Isabella. So, your expertise will be needed. When I get back there. Victoria (tk) 17:52, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
I think we were at cross purposes - I meant the Christus. Please dont mind my reorgs there, still toying with it, but hugely impressed. I hope I dont mess it up, and the revert button wont bother me. Re Isabella, you know your deeply immersed in a period when you are obsessing on possible workshop copies. Welcome again to art historical nerd-dom, but delighted to see the page. I have sources, and hope you liked the Campin. I am hugely jealous of your damn visit to the Getty bty; likely shant talk to you again. Humph. Ceoil (talk) 17:59, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Blue sky in November!
You know you're obsessed in a period when your family can't pull you out of a gallery and you're taking umpteem pics of Isabella as though she's a friend or something. Yes, I was very surprised to find it's a copy - it's lovely in person, nonetheless - and I know you have sources. I'd like to work it up and then work up her page too. I'll send pics from the Getty, finally got a little time this morning to download and crop a few. I have one of St Francis, a diptych, in a frame, which I'd like to use, but don't think it'll work. It's an amazing place, but absolute total visual overload. And hot! 90 degrees F. But still, yeah, wonderful. The books are amazing too. Victoria (tk) 18:09, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm lucky, the first thing we took my parents to when they came to New England was 17/8th c graveyards, and though mam was rolling her fingers, it was hard to pull dad away. Then to the BMOFA, joy. America is very impressive. We even did a duck tour of Boston. Yeah I know but...just great fun if your a tourist, so much history in such short time. It was my parents first time over, but not their last. They are working up the courage to visit NYC, which even I find intense. I lived there for 6 months in 1993, when I was 20 and green as fuck. The only place I could get served was a local Irish cop bar in Queens; fine at the time, but if I ever see those wankers again it will be too soon. But Manhatten is amazeballs, as the young people say. Ceoil (talk) 18:59, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
I like all those cities. Boston is home (though I don't live there now); Manhattan is Manhattan - very intense but very wonderful. The thing that got to me about SoCal, that I'd forgotten, is the light. Made me think of van Gogh, living for years in the gloomy gray north and then finding his way south. There's something about the glare of that SoCal light that enchants in the winter. Anyway we sound like a travel service here. Victoria (tk) 20:02, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Article Draft Copy EDNOS[edit]

Is at User:Nutrition.and.Health/sandbox/Eating disorder not otherwise specified. Note, these type of drafts will certainly become stale and should get deleted so we don't have stale copies lying around forever. — xaosflux Talk 01:18, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

I think we should delete it in about a week. Thanks for posting here; that way I won't forget and I'll stop by to ask you or someone to delete (I'm not an admin, so can't do it myself). Thanks for doing this. Victoria (tk) 01:22, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Hey, TK, thanks for doing that while I was out and enjoying my dinner :) FYI, that student's plea on article talk (which came, predictably, only after the article was finally locked) was his/her first ever post to any talk page (user or article), even after multiple posts directed to them on talk, and curiously, three hours later, the AN3 still hasn't been actioned.[3] Things are really going downhill in here, across the board. The silver lining is that, although the Education Program has never and will never do anything except backchannel chat with profs, at least Xaosflux appeared and actually did something. That's a first, in my four years of dealing with the EP. But I'll go over to the Education Noticeboard now to say all of that. Just wanted to thank you for setting up and pointing them to sandbox. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:03, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm a softie, but I know how the students feel because they've been telling me each semester for five years how they feel about this place. They don't want to edit here, they certainly don't want to engage (for the most part they're scared), but they have to get their work done. I told Sage four or five years ago that it doesn't work unless the prof is fully immersed in the community but that's not the direction WikiEd has chosen to take. Ultimately I don't think it's the students' faults; I keep thinking what if that were my child, panicking the night before an assignment is due? What we do here to students is just wrong, imo. Anyway, as I said, a softie, and off my soapbox now. Thanks for stopping by - I'd only popped in to relax for a few moments with some content work when I saw all that. Belated welcome back, btw. And it's nice to be called TK again! Take care, Victoria (tk) 02:29, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
I think what is being done to students, to the benefit of their lazy profs, is horrid. And like you, I always think of them in terms of how I would feel if one of my own offspring were in one of those dreadful courses and put in one of these positions. Too tough of a learning curve, with too big of consequences. That poor copyvio editor yesterday has her goof burned into history, for all of her peers, family, friends to know about. The profs get free TAs, while the students get a perhaps much-too-tough lesson in the real world, and while "we" in here ... just get screwed. Probably time for me to leave again ... for about six months, I swore I would never come back here and face what students have done to med articles. And here I am ... whatadork. Miss you ! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:44, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
I missed the copyvio incident and just peeked in over there and quickly closed the page, but I will plow through it all. Personally I don't think the profs are to blame either (for the most part) - they simply don't know what they're doing and as you say the learning curve is too big. I'll keep saying until I'm blue in the face that until profs are adequately immersed in the community and understand our norms (via editing) - and frankly that goes for the paid employees at WikiEd too - then this mess will continue. What's this about free TAs? Is WikiEd placing paid TAs in the classrooms?
Btw - while I have you here. I've not had a chance to comment yet, but my feeling is that an RfC for FA/TFA etc., isn't worth the cost. Fwiw. If I get a chance I'll add my thoughts before things close up there, but might not get to it. Victoria (tk) 17:08, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
On the first, here's what I mean by "paid TAs". I suspect that profs want the students to have a lesson, so to speak, in realworldism. That is, seeing how people outside of academia react to their research and writing is a big teachable moment, and one that frees the prof from doing that comment and grading. We have to detect their plagiarism, we have to correct their writing, we are giving them big academic lessons, freeing the prof from doing that.
On the second, ya know, I think you may be right. I'm starting to see that, once they succeeded in chasing off and then eliminating a directorship at FAC, the current crop has proceeded to make the entire process basically irrelevant. It's never going to be what it once was (and most of them have no idea what the standards once were), so I'm probably wasting my time! I'm not sure most folks in here actually give a wit about FAs anymore ! But for all the earlier complaints about cabalism, cliques and a "dictator", what we have in there now is simply unprecedented. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:13, 11 December 2014 (UTC)
Oh, I see what you mean by the first. My sense is that they just make the assignment without understanding how things work here. This semester in one of my classes "we" worked on an article as a class project - I put "we" in quotes because the page was a mess (filled with plagiarism), which was a really good teachable moment, and the students watched me stubify and then rebuild the article. I told the students I'd try one of those last minute things they do to see to see whether a good WP article could be written in a night or two, and basically I failed miserably. That was a good teachable moment too. Problem is, I don't think the WikiEd folks are educators, and the educators aren't Wikipedians, which causes these messes.
On the second I don't agree that people don't give a wit about FAs. I think Bencherlite has done a really good job and I fully support Ian and Graham. The biggest problem is there are too few of us, we're spread too thin, making more for everyone to do, and not enough of us on the ground to get it all done. Inevitably stuff falls through the cracks, so in that sense it's different. But we took a hard hit in 2011/2012 and I'm not sure how many people are willing to go through all that again. Anyway, those are my thoughts, for whatever they're worth. (I'm on break and hungry, so maybe not being very articulate). Victoria (tk) 18:25, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

A Gerard David[edit]

guess you prefer your own work, but there are other files too.
Rogier van der Weyden workshop - Portrait of Isabella of Portugal - without frame.jpg

Just created Lamentation (Gerard David). Please feel free to edit and add anything you know better than these online sources. Since I can't find sources I don't really know who the other women are. They have an aura, like saints. Possibly the three women who arrive to the tomb with the spices and stuff? Combined with the ones with the Cross, Mary and Saint John. This is speculation, no sources. Hafspajen (talk) 04:34, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Hafs for starting the David Lamentation. When I get a chance I'll look it up and add to it. Sorry, been busy and will be for the next few weeks. I still need to swing through your Botticelli Madonna too before xmas. Thanks, too, for finding another Isabella in a frame - the one on the right is much better than mine so I'll swap it out in the article. I was frankly surprised to have gotten anything even remotely usable using a phone camera. Victoria (tk) 00:13, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Gerard David, Netherlandish (active Bruges), first documented 1484, died 1523 - Lamentation - Google Art Project.jpg
Here's another David Lamentation. It's in Philadelphia. Victoria (tk) 03:24, 13 December 2014 (UTC)


Season's Greetings![edit]

Snacks at a Christmas party, Chatham, Ontario, 2014-12-13.jpg Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2015 !!!

Hello Victoriaearle! As we gather to celebrate the changing of years and reflect on the meaning of life, the universe, and everything, I would like to wish you and yours a merry Christmas and a happy New Year. Attached is a small snack which I hope will give you the energy to continue being an amazing person and editor in the coming year.

Happy editing,
 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:44, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

  • Thanks Crisco! Very festive pic! The snacks are welcome - they'll help get me through this time of being a Christmas elf and maybe I'll have some energy left to edit a bit. Enjoy your Christmas and New Year (in case I don't get WP messages out this year). Victoria (tk) 17:08, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
    • An elf? Very, very tiring indeed. I'll be taking on that role, or the role of the big elf, for Christmas 2015... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:48, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
      • Yes, elfing is very exhausting. I'm hoping for a day of rest (though must do something about the huge tree that's suddenly sprouted in the living room). Btw - I forgot to say that I was happy to see September Morn promoted, and also congrats re TFA. Thanks too for the help during the year, particularly at Pound. Enjoy the holidays - and the cold! Victoria (tk) 13:38, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
        • Shiver me timbers! Or something like that.  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:42, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Saint Francis[edit]

Excellent work. Its a good one, espically as the road to attribution is so rich in art historical thechnique. Seasons, etc. Ceoil (talk) 03:51, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

  • Thanks. It is a good one - thanks to you for getting it going and reeling me in. I'm still working on enormous amount of reading, slowly. Have been busy elfing. Seasons, etc. to you too. Victoria (tk) 13:38, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Best wishes for a happy holiday season[edit]

Weihnachten10.gif Happy Holiday Cheer
Season's Greetings! This message celebrates the holiday season, promotes WikiLove, and hopefully makes your day a little better. Spread the seasonal good cheer by wishing another user an Awesome Holiday and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone with whom you had disagreements in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Share the good feelings! Joys!Hafspajen (talk) 01:50, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

  • Thanks Hafspajen! Very snazzy! Victoria (tk) 15:59, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Something beautiful for the holidays[edit]


Angelos Akotanos - Saint Anne with the Virgin - 15th century.jpg
Nollaig shona duit
RozdestvoHristovo RublevBlagSoborMK.jpg
Best christmas and new year. Another year down, and so much more to write. Thanks for all your contribuitions and being part of the community. Hope January is at least resonabally tolerable for you. Ceoil (talk) 23:38, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Seasonal greetings[edit]

Christmas Tree 2014.jpg

Merry Christmas and best wishes for a happy, healthy and productive 2015!
Ruhrfisch ><>°° 14:27, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

PS Congrats on a lovely article as TFA!

Thanks Ruhrfisch! I hope Santa left lots of presents under that sparkly tree. Nice to see you around, btw. Victoria (tk) 00:42, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Madonna of the Book[edit]

Hafspajen (talk) 18:55, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for this Hafspajen. Victoria (tk) 00:42, 26 December 2014 (UTC)


Really impressed here since I went awol, its very strong. I have a few bits to add but nothing major, more underscoring the art hist approcah, and the change of optioning in the last 30 years, and that. Anyways, I was wondering if you were interested in working on the JvE bio over the longer term, that is many, many months. Would be something that needed a PR and maybe a GA nom in the long distance. Ceoil (talk) 00:22, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Oh god yes! (not to get too excited or anything!). I think we've both had our eye on that and have been moving in that direction for a while. Fingers crossed, real life is about to calm down a bit after a long period of many distractions, so I'd be able to give it justice. I'm not fussed about timing. When you're finished tweaking Francis I'll add a few bits; don't want to ec you. I'm about to start checking to see whether Pacht has anything to say - if he does it prob should go in. Victoria (tk) 01:17, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Well, Ive been puting in serious time there, on and off, but its been an upwards, hill by hill, struggle. I would be totally honoured to forge a joint venture. Ceoil (talk) 02:36, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
You've been cranking out all the sub articles at an impressive rate. At some point I mentioned something about adding material to them from Dhanens but never got to it, and suddenly articles started growing like mushrooms. So lots of work to do and fun work at that. Yes, a joint venture sounds like a deal - I'm honored you'd ask. Victoria (tk) 02:48, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Deal and deal. Ceoil (talk) 04:15, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year[edit]

Thank you for the lovely card, Victoria. All the best to you for the New Year, and thank you again for your help and support this year, particularly at FGM. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:33, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

You've very welcome. All the best to you too! I enjoyed our collaboration on Ezra, was just amazed watching you build FGM and honored to be part of the review. Keep up the good work! Victoria (tk) 02:01, 27 December 2014 (UTC)