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while it's fine to delete most comments on your own talk page per WP:OWNTALK, it's frowned upon for article talk pages, as it removes context from discussions
AmirahBreen (talk | contribs)
7,961 edits
Undid revision 1004482025 by Ohnoitsjamie (talk) While you say it is 'frowned upon' I have my reasons for doing it as I am editing under my own name and have my own personal security to consider
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:: I restored most of this content to the article. The [[Mohamed_Abdullahi_Mohamed#Presidential_term_(2017–present)]] section is still heavily weighted towards negative material, so I think the disputed neutrality tag should stay on until someone can revise it to present a more balanced view. [[User:Rublov|Rublov]] ([[User talk:Rublov|talk]]) 19:25, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
:: I restored most of this content to the article. The [[Mohamed_Abdullahi_Mohamed#Presidential_term_(2017–present)]] section is still heavily weighted towards negative material, so I think the disputed neutrality tag should stay on until someone can revise it to present a more balanced view. [[User:Rublov|Rublov]] ([[User talk:Rublov|talk]]) 19:25, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
::: Agreed; that section still feels rather lopsided in terms of criticism. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 19:51, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
::: Agreed; that section still feels rather lopsided in terms of criticism. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 19:51, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Just because a section is weighted toward negative material does not necessarily mean that it is bias. "Simply being of the opinion that a page is not neutral is not sufficient to justify the addition of the tag" [[WP:NPOVD]] As you have agreed that the rest of the page has been restored and it is now only this section which you believe to be weighted I suggest the tag is removed. Yes, I did write most of what is under the section (2017-present). The article was in much need of being updated, as the elections are due and there had been no updates on the current presidential term. I believe I have made these updates fairly reflecting what is in the press. You have not made any updates to the section yourselves. If you believe there are positive views which have been missed then you are still at liberty to add them to the section. [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 23:08, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
: There is no hurry to remove the tag; there are other editors who have expressed similar concerns, and the article still feels weighted toward a negative bias. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 23:44, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
: There is no hurry to remove the tag; there are other editors who have expressed similar concerns, and the article still feels weighted toward a negative bias. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 23:44, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
:: I agree that removing the neutrality tag is not yet warranted. The section is little more than a laundry list of negative comments about Mohamed. [[User:Rublov|Rublov]] ([[User talk:Rublov|talk]]) 01:06, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
:: I agree that removing the neutrality tag is not yet warranted. The section is little more than a laundry list of negative comments about Mohamed. [[User:Rublov|Rublov]] ([[User talk:Rublov|talk]]) 01:06, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I find it insulting for you to refer to my editing as a 'laudry list' Rublov. I consider my contributions to the section to be NPOV and you have yet to prove otherwise. As far as I am aware, the NPOV Dispute has been between the two of you and myself and it is only your two opinions that the section is bias. OhNoitsJamie, you say in your comment that the article 'feels' weighted toward a negative bias, but it clearly says in [[WP:NPOVD]] that "Simply being of the opinion that a page is not neutral is not sufficient to justify the addition of the tag", I would put your 'feels weighted' comment down as an opinion, so it gives me no reason not to remove the tag. [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 01:27, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
:: The concerns have already been described; specifically, that all of your additions to this article have been critical commentary, which has created a lopsided article. Recent example: You [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohamed_Abdullahi_Mohamed&diff=prev&oldid=997687826 added a section about an aborted attempt to impeach the subject] without describing the context of the action that was well-documented (e.g., clan/opposition rivalries, etc). Those sources also note that Mohamed has received some plaudits, and that supporters demonstrated against the impeachment announcement. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 01:56, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
:: The concerns have already been described; specifically, that all of your additions to this article have been critical commentary, which has created a lopsided article. Recent example: You [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohamed_Abdullahi_Mohamed&diff=prev&oldid=997687826 added a section about an aborted attempt to impeach the subject] without describing the context of the action that was well-documented (e.g., clan/opposition rivalries, etc). Those sources also note that Mohamed has received some plaudits, and that supporters demonstrated against the impeachment announcement. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 01:56, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

To the contrary the Reuters article states 'both his supporters and the government stress that his detention is political, rather than a clan issue' [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 02:10, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

The context of the action would not have made the action look an more positive for Farmaajo. The fact that it followed the raid of an opposition leader in which five people were killed by Somali security agents. A fact which you neglected to mention in your edits too. [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 02:22, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

You also failed to mention, as it has also been extensively reported on that the opposition leader, who was not charged or convicted with any offence following the raid in which he himself was also injured, received an apology from Hassan Ali Khaire who had been Prime Minister at the time it happened. [[https://www.garoweonline.com/en/news/somalia/former-pm-apologizes-over-nisa-attack-in-opposition-leaders-house]] [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 02:33, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

But in talking to you in the same tone and manner that you talk to me I'm making myself just as bad as you are, aren't I?
[[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 02:37, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Naturally, an attempted impeachment is by rivals and opposition, isn't it. It is also a fact that many of Farmaajo's own supporters turned against him over the illegal rendition of Qalbi-Dhagax to Ethiopia, which also happened before the attempted impeachment. If you would like me to expand on context I can do, but there is no need to delete my work and insult me because according to your opinion something more could be added to what I have said.[https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/25/farmajos-betrayal-of-the-somali-people] [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 14:57, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Previously, when I reported on peaceful protesters having been shot at by Farmaajo's security forces, you deleted my edit saying that it was not newsworthy, and now you have deleted my edit because you say I had not added background information which was about people being shot and killed by Farmaajo's security forces. It looks to me like a contradiction and I do not understand why you are continuing to delete my work and insult me. I have asked for explanation to clarify these issues and am still waiting for response.
[[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 15:02, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I am saying that there is very little in the news about Farmaajo which is positive and my edits are not bias. I had good reason for deleting previous material from the page, which was uncited, and that material has now been restored with citations. Perhaps you don't consider it controversial that there is uncited material on an article about a living person, a politician, shortly before an election, which gives him an advantage over other politicians, but I do, and for that reason I consider it valid to use the BLP rules and delete the material immediately without discussion. I am not adverse to the fact that some of it has been re-instated with proper citations. If I deleted any material along with it which was cited, perhaps this was a mistake or perhaps I had other reasons such as that the material was not newsworthy. It is some time ago now. The paragraph on 'Reforms' needs extra citation because it relies solely on a source which is the text of his own speech. This is the main paragraph on the page which says anything good about his political achievements, and it has been restored with a request asking editors to find additional sources which can be cited to say he did these things. I cannot find any sources myself other than his own speech. [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 15:14, 2 January 2021 (UTC)


===Summarizing 2017 presidential term===
===Summarizing 2017 presidential term===
Amirah [[User_talk:Ohnoitsjamie#Mohamed_Abdullahi_Mohamed_2|sought clarification on my talk page]] regarding my attempt to summarize Mohamad's supporters/opposition in terms of geographic regions, administrative states. In reviewing sources and maps, that summary likely needs some tweaking.


The section on the 2017 presidential term should summarize the ups and downs of the term; currently, it reads more like an exhaustive list of criticism. . While reviewing sources in an attempt to do so, from solid sources is (1) Mohamed's term began with a fair amount of support, both domestically and internationally [https://www.voanews.com/africa/somalis-optimistic-about-new-president], and (2) in the last four years, while he still has supporters, the opposition has grown in strength with along clan and geographic lines in reaction to his efforts to unify the country, efforts which may have backfired. The major criticisms seem to be his heavy-handed approach to unification which for one has put-off Somaliland [https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/25/farmajos-betrayal-of-the-somali-people], and also his extradition of [[ONLF]] leader Abdikarim Sheikh Muse [https://www.africanews.com/2017/08/31/outrage-as-somalia-transfers-citizen-to-ethiopia-in-breach-of-national-laws//],[https://www.voanews.com/africa/report-onlf-rebel-leader-illegally-extradited-ethiopia]. Accusations of vote-stacking regarding the upcoming election have also been mentioned in several strong sources [https://www.voanews.com/africa/somalias-indirect-election-delayed-political-standoff]. Recent positive appraisal includes his appointment of [[Mohamed Hussein Roble]] to PM, who is "seen as nonaligned in the Somalia political landscape" [https://www.voanews.com/africa/somalia-names-new-pm-revises-election-plan]. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 15:27, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
The section on the 2017 presidential term should summarize the ups and downs of the term; currently, it reads more like an exhaustive list of criticism. . While reviewing sources in an attempt to do so, from solid sources is (1) Mohamed's term began with a fair amount of support, both domestically and internationally [https://www.voanews.com/africa/somalis-optimistic-about-new-president], and (2) in the last four years, while he still has supporters, the opposition has grown in strength with along clan and geographic lines in reaction to his efforts to unify the country, efforts which may have backfired. The major criticisms seem to be his heavy-handed approach to unification which for one has put-off Somaliland [https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2017/9/25/farmajos-betrayal-of-the-somali-people], and also his extradition of [[ONLF]] leader Abdikarim Sheikh Muse [https://www.africanews.com/2017/08/31/outrage-as-somalia-transfers-citizen-to-ethiopia-in-breach-of-national-laws//],[https://www.voanews.com/africa/report-onlf-rebel-leader-illegally-extradited-ethiopia]. Accusations of vote-stacking regarding the upcoming election have also been mentioned in several strong sources [https://www.voanews.com/africa/somalias-indirect-election-delayed-political-standoff]. Recent positive appraisal includes his appointment of [[Mohamed Hussein Roble]] to PM, who is "seen as nonaligned in the Somalia political landscape" [https://www.voanews.com/africa/somalia-names-new-pm-revises-election-plan]. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 15:27, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with most of the points you have made here Jamie. I would say opposition has grown particularly along geo-political lines. His efforts to centralise power have backfired, this is true.

'South-Central' does not describe a region, so I prefer to talk in terms of regional opposition, than geographic areas. There are five or six federal member states in Somalia; Galmudug, Hirshabelle, Jubaland, Puntland and South West and Somaliland which is also known as a de facto independent country with limited recognition.

There have particularly been issues with Jubaland and Somaliland. Both of these states have had strong British colonial influences historically; Somaliland being a former British protectorate and Jubaland because of it's borders with Kenya which was colonised by the British. Other parts of Somalia were colonised by Italy. This colonial history plays a role in why Somalia has developed into a Federal country in which it is difficult to centralise power, and I agree with you that Farmaajo's approach has been heavy-handed to say the least. My personal understanding is that the historical colonial divisions of the country are causing more issue than clanism. However, this article by David Goldman the Director of Counter Terrorism, National Security, and Intelligence Analysis at Strategic Intelligence, does go some way to explaining the dynamics of clanism concerning Farmaajo's strategy in Jubaland. [https://intelligencebriefs.com/president-farmaajo-war-on-jubbaland-his-marehan-tribesmen-in-gedo-terrorists-to-benefit/]

There have also been issues with Puntland which have yet to be mentioned. [https://horseedmedia.net/2019/12/30/president-farmajo-tends-to-treat-puntland/].[https://www.garoweonline.com/en/news/puntland/puntland-dismisses-khaires-ouster-as-illegal-accuses-farmajo-of-dishonesty],[https://www.garoweonline.com/en/news/somalia/somalia-farmajo-chairs-meeting-boycotted-by-puntland-and-jubaland]. In the remaining states, Galmudug, Hirshabelle and South West there have also been accusations against him interfering in elections and placing his own supporters in state government. So the opposition to him is spread over the entire country, not just in the one area. There have been comments in the press that these political tactics are reminding people of the methods used by Siad Barre, who placed his own people (Marehan Clan) in positions of political power to the exclusion of other clans. At least Farmaajo's selection of Roble for Prime Minister did not appear to follow this same pattern. [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 18:21, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

I understand that you would like to attract other editors to contribute to the article and wish to leave the neutrality tag there for a while to invite them to do so. I have also added internal links to Farmaajo's clan and sub-clan and an external link to his thesis, which again is his own words, but can help readers to understand his own views and what his intentions were in politics at the time he wrote it. The thesis has also been criticised in the press by his opponents (who consider that he shows support for the Siad Barre regime and demonstrates a lack of sympathy over the [[Isaaq genocide]]). I have not added these criticisms to the text of the article. There have also been press articles more recently which say he has made apologies on behalf of Siad Barre for the massacres and genocide of people from Somalia and Somaliland which he was guilty of. Anyone who has sufficient interest to read Farmaajo's thesis and an understanding of Somali politics and history can read it and judge for themselves. There may also be points in the thesis which are in Farmaajo's favour. There may be articles which give positive appraisals of it too, which I have missed. I can only hope that nothing contentious would be added to this article which would cause harm to people who have already suffered so much and desperately wish for peace to return to their country. I suggest that we try to come to an agreement for a timespan that the tag should be left if, there is no further action on it or discussion on the talk page. Otherwise, after some time has elapsed, I will consider that the discussion and action provoked by the tag is over and that I should be at liberty to remove it without being made to fear that I would be banned from Wikipedia for doing so and I will assume that silence indicates consent to me doing so. [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 14:38, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

In the section 'Early Life' there is a claim that Farmaajo worked for human rights organisations while he was working for the Somali embassy in Washington. The source does say that he had experience with human rights organisations,[https://web.archive.org/web/20160304080845/http://af.reuters.com/article/somaliaNews/idAFLDE69D20820101014] but does not clearly say when. It is also clear further down in the section that he later worked in a human rights capacity with local government, particularly equal opportunity in employment rights. It would help to shed light on which human rights organisations he worked with and when, in what roll, any notable achievements made here. As I can't find any other reference to his work with human rights organisations I am wondering if this is a mistake in translation and that what the source actually meant to say was that he had worked in a human rights role with local government. [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 19:03, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
:: I consider myself to be a neutral observer to Somalia politics, but I'm empathetic to the stability/security issues and the challenges that the country faces. The article doesn't have to be perfectly 50/50 balanced between positive and negative commentary; if that majority of reliable sources are critical, it would be OK for the article to reflect that. I feel like we're making progress in balancing the article, but it could use a little bit more refactoring; the contested section still resembles a chronological list of grievances against Farmajo. Regarding your questions about the neutrality tag; let's at least give it a few weeks. It certainly doesn't need to remain indefinitely, but there isn't a consensus to remove it yet. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 01:31, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
:: I consider myself to be a neutral observer to Somalia politics, but I'm empathetic to the stability/security issues and the challenges that the country faces. The article doesn't have to be perfectly 50/50 balanced between positive and negative commentary; if that majority of reliable sources are critical, it would be OK for the article to reflect that. I feel like we're making progress in balancing the article, but it could use a little bit more refactoring; the contested section still resembles a chronological list of grievances against Farmajo. Regarding your questions about the neutrality tag; let's at least give it a few weeks. It certainly doesn't need to remain indefinitely, but there isn't a consensus to remove it yet. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|<sup>Talk</sup>]]</b> 01:31, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I will go with that. [[User:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkblue">Amirah</span>]] [[User talk:AmirahBreen|<span style="color: darkgreen">talk</span>]] 18:14, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 02:00, 3 February 2021

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 19:29, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mohamed Abdullahi Farmajo → Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed – The subject's real name and the page's original title. This is also the WP:COMMONNAME (c.f. Ewumiqf.&channel=fe&fp=4abcb7c7e98f1287&hl=en&q=%22Mohamed+Abdullahi+Mohamed%22, [1]). Middayexpress (talk) 15:45, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Date discrepancies

{{Help}} Is his birthday on the 12 or 11 of March? Because in the Somali language Wikipedia it has 5 of March. Farmajo also has two birth years which one is his correct birthday ? Please fix it for me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.148.100 (talk) 19:47, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We don't use the help template for normal content discussions. You didn't note the discrepancy on the date he assumed office, for which the source is unclear. Better sources need to be provided or these details will have to be removed from the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 19:52, 3 March 2020‎ Jmcgnh (talk • contribs)
I see that you made changes to the article but neither the before nor after version of the article contain suitable references that support the dates you have given. We have a good source for the date of election, no good source for the specific date of inauguration (just saying "Wednesday" leaves enough ambiguity to fail), and, when I looked, the sources given do not support even the birth year, much less a date of birth. The article on Somali Wikipedia is unsourced, so gives no hints as to where to look for better sources. — jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 06:58, 5 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing Siad Barre as uncle

Template:BLP noticeboard There is currently a disagreement on whether the statement " The deposed Somali dictator Siad Barre was Farmaajo's uncle." in the opening paragraph. There are a few issues with this: (1) "Dictator" seems to be pushing POV a bit; yes, there are good sources that describe Barre's governance as "increasingly dictatorial," but it seems more neutral to simply describe him as "President"; the article about him has more details. (2) There are only a few Somali sources that describe uncle/nephew relationship. Most sources that mention both men do not describe any familial connection (e.g. [2], [3], [4]). None of the sources that do use the word "uncle" describe exactly how they are related (via his father or mother?); every source that uses the term "uncle" uses it in the context of criticism. It seems possible that "uncle" is being used here in a more loose sense (i.e., Fictive kinship? (3) we have a mixed precedent for mentioning notable relations in the first paragraph, e.g. George W. Bush (yes), Bam Aquino (no), Arthur Balfour (no). Google search note: complicating efforts to track down sources are the spelling variations here: Farmajo/Farmaajo, Said/Syed, Bare/Baare/Barre. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:20, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I already acknowledged that Siad Barre used the term "dictatorial" to describe his role; I don't think it's necessary to mention that in the sentence describing the relationship. Can you point me to the source that describes them as "relatives"? All of the sources that mention the word "uncle" are Somali-based critical articles about him; I have yet to see any international sources that mention such a relationship. OhNoitsJamie Talk 17:56, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Somali Dispatch is questionable in terms of being a reliable source; while purporting to be neutral, it doesn't appear to be connected to any sort of news agency, and is rather a self-published opinion website out of Canada (all of the articles are either attributed to "Admin" or a "MOHAMED ADAN"). I also find it odd that this article from Africanews nor this one from AllAfrica (both sources that more easily meets WP:RS guidelines) cover Farmaajo's admissions of the excesses of the Barre regime without mentioning any familial connection. There's certainly a lot of opposition and challenges to Farmaajo, which leads me to believe that the limited sources describing the "uncle" relationship are attempts to discredit him by linking him to Barre. If Barre was indeed his uncle, why does it seem like only opposition articles are mentioning it? OhNoitsJamie Talk 20:44, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't add the neutrality tag regarding the last few edits; I added it regarding additions to the article in the last month. I'm concerned that it's heavily weighted on criticism of the subject; it reads like a running tally of every criticism ever leveled against him. Obviously any elected official is going to have criticism leveled at them, but I'd like others to weigh in on the overall balance of this article, especially editors with more knowledge of Horn of Africa politics. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:49, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality

Yes, largely because you've removed anything positive about the subject and added nothing by criticism, creating a decidedly unbalanced article. Looking at the edit history, most of the article's current content under Mohamed_Abdullahi_Mohamed#Presidential_term_(2017–present) has been added by you, and is entirely negative. At the same time, you've removed (first large tracts of text with canned edit summaries that included positive information. Examples of improper removal of positive content:
  • Here, you removed the entire "Reforms" section with the edit summary "Immediate removal of unsourced contentious material about a living person according to Wikipedia guidelines." That's a complete misapplication of BLP policy; that section was reasonably sourced, and had absolutely no BLP violations.
  • Here is another example of the same; you've removed a sourced quote from an Italian politician supporting Mohamed's position on the Kampala agreement. Please explain to me how that violates WP:BLP.
The entirety of the material you improperly gutted from the article can be seen here. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:14, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I restored most of this content to the article. The Mohamed_Abdullahi_Mohamed#Presidential_term_(2017–present) section is still heavily weighted towards negative material, so I think the disputed neutrality tag should stay on until someone can revise it to present a more balanced view. Rublov (talk) 19:25, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed; that section still feels rather lopsided in terms of criticism. OhNoitsJamie Talk 19:51, 30 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There is no hurry to remove the tag; there are other editors who have expressed similar concerns, and the article still feels weighted toward a negative bias. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:44, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that removing the neutrality tag is not yet warranted. The section is little more than a laundry list of negative comments about Mohamed. Rublov (talk) 01:06, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The concerns have already been described; specifically, that all of your additions to this article have been critical commentary, which has created a lopsided article. Recent example: You added a section about an aborted attempt to impeach the subject without describing the context of the action that was well-documented (e.g., clan/opposition rivalries, etc). Those sources also note that Mohamed has received some plaudits, and that supporters demonstrated against the impeachment announcement. OhNoitsJamie Talk 01:56, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Summarizing 2017 presidential term

The section on the 2017 presidential term should summarize the ups and downs of the term; currently, it reads more like an exhaustive list of criticism. . While reviewing sources in an attempt to do so, from solid sources is (1) Mohamed's term began with a fair amount of support, both domestically and internationally [5], and (2) in the last four years, while he still has supporters, the opposition has grown in strength with along clan and geographic lines in reaction to his efforts to unify the country, efforts which may have backfired. The major criticisms seem to be his heavy-handed approach to unification which for one has put-off Somaliland [6], and also his extradition of ONLF leader Abdikarim Sheikh Muse [7],[8]. Accusations of vote-stacking regarding the upcoming election have also been mentioned in several strong sources [9]. Recent positive appraisal includes his appointment of Mohamed Hussein Roble to PM, who is "seen as nonaligned in the Somalia political landscape" [10]. OhNoitsJamie Talk 15:27, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I consider myself to be a neutral observer to Somalia politics, but I'm empathetic to the stability/security issues and the challenges that the country faces. The article doesn't have to be perfectly 50/50 balanced between positive and negative commentary; if that majority of reliable sources are critical, it would be OK for the article to reflect that. I feel like we're making progress in balancing the article, but it could use a little bit more refactoring; the contested section still resembles a chronological list of grievances against Farmajo. Regarding your questions about the neutrality tag; let's at least give it a few weeks. It certainly doesn't need to remain indefinitely, but there isn't a consensus to remove it yet. OhNoitsJamie Talk 01:31, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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