Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 May 17

May 17

Template:Largest cities of Israel

• Template:Largest cities of Israel (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

used on only 2 articles and should be replaced by {{Largest Israeli cities}}. There is a precedent for this.Catchpoke (talk) 23:46, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Comment: Catchpoke, I'm confused by this request. You have requested Largest cities of Israel for deletion, but the way you have worded your request, you say it should be replaced by Largest Israeli cities. This sounds more like a merger request. Are the articles in the Largest cities of Israel template included in the Largest Israeli cities? --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:03, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes: all of the cities in {{Largest cities of Israel}} are included in {{Largest Israeli cities}}. I stated that {{Largest cities of Israel}} should be replaced with {{Largest Israeli cities}} because the data in {{Largest cities of Israel}} requires constant updating (including the reference provided by Israel Central Bureau of Statistics). since we already have List of cities in Israel, its safe to delete {{Largest cities of Israel}}. Catchpoke (talk) 23:23, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

"all of the cities in {{Largest cities of Israel}} are included in {{Largest Israeli cities}}" False. You are obviously don't know what you are talking about, can't even open and compare the two. The templates have different content, purpose and placement in articles, as I explained below.

"data in {{Largest cities of Israel}} requires constant updating" It does not, actually, as it's updated automatically through {{Israel populations}}. And whether it's updatable or not is not a rationale for deletion, anyway. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 03:46, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

• Speedy keep The "precedent" you provided is of a subdivision, not a country. {{Largest cities}} is a standard feature of articles about countries, see United Kingdom, France, Canada, Greece, Egypt, China, Japan etc. And {{Largest Israeli cities}} that you suggest to replace this one with is a navbox, a different kind of template. Nominator is a newbie.

--Triggerhippie4 (talk) 00:35, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

you suggest to replace this one with is a navbox, a different kind of template. Nominator is a newbie - {{Largest cities of Israel}} uses class "nav". Both are navboxes. Also, it calls {{Largest cities}} which says the template isn't displayed in mobile. So you are basically placing a navigation template in the middle of an article and hiding it from 50% of readers. --Gonnym (talk) 09:04, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

@Gonnym: It's too broad for mobile view. {{Largest cities}} templates are presenting detailed information on few top cities with images and are useful in article bodies. Navboxes with all cities are for navigation between them and are placed at the bottom with other navboxes. Besides that, it doesn't matter for the nomination, as it should be speedy kept, and if you want to delete Largest-cities templates you should nominate all hundreds of them. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 09:47, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Content should not be hidden from half our readers. If such a table is needed in the middle of an article, it should be converted to a standard table. --Gonnym (talk) 09:59, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

It is horizontal, not designed for mobile view. If a mobile reader at Israel#Major urban areas (where the template is) wants a list of largest cities they click on hatnote. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 10:04, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

I have no problem with nominating most ofif not all of them though i find that rather bold due to the chilling effect of attitudes and comments like "nominator is a newbie".Catchpoke (talk) 23:35, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

• Delete There is no rationale for keeping two templates with the same topic. Although, there needs to be a discussion about the Largest cities in the world templates navbox and the individual Largest cities of templates. I don't see why there needs to be a navbox that leads to template pages. Navigational boxes should lead to articles listed in the template. "all of the cities in Largest cities of Israel are included in Largest Israeli cities. False. You are obviously don't know what you are talking about, can't even open and compare the two." Triggerhippie4, there's no need to be angry over a template discussion. In fact, the cities listed in Largest cities of Israel are in the Largest Israeli cities navbox. And Catchpoke, if you do nominate another one of these templates, it's best to nominate multiple for one discussion in order to avoid repeated single discussions. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 14:30, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@WikiCleanerMan: {{Largest cities of Israel}} is not a navbox and is not used for navigation between cities in it. That's what {{Largest Israeli cities}} is for. You voted delete. Are you ok with Israel article being singled out while virtually every other country continue to have such template? --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 17:30, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I didn't say it was a navbox. The largest cities in the world navbox needs to be looked at because that navbox just leads to templates about largest cities in a country. A navbox should lead to articles, not templates. And yes I am because there already exists a navbox that has the same purpose. And other countries with this template that's being nominated for deletion needs to be looked at as well. A navbox that can do the same thing is better than the way the Largest cities of templates are outlined. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 18:14, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

@WikiCleanerMan: The largest cities in the world navbox needs to be looked at. There's no such navbox. I used {{World topic}} with modifications to display the series of templates.

A navbox should lead to articles, not templates. Not true, see Category:Navigational meta-templates.

And yes I am because there already exists a navbox that has the same purpose. They have different purposes. One is for displaying detailed list of top cities in the country's main article, and the other is for navigation between all cities.

You are as competent as nominator. You were blocked just recently with one of the reasons being WP:CIR. Can we get mindful editors to participate here, please? --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 18:43, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Template:Motorways and Trunk Roads in England

• Template:Motorways and Trunk Roads in England (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:Motorways in the United Kingdom (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Propose merging Template:Motorways and Trunk Roads in England with Template:Motorways in the United Kingdom.
These look like they are closely related, so I wonder whether they could be merged. If not merged, {{Motorways and Trunk Roads in England}} should probably be renamed to {{Highways England}} as that seems to be the actual topic of the navbox (to add more confusion, the headline of the template is neither of those but rather "Strategic road network in England"). 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 16:29, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

• Delete Motorways and Trunk Roads in England. {{Motorways in the United Kingdom}} has existed for 15 years, covers motorways in the whole UK (not just England), an easy-to-grasp subject with easy-to-grasp subgroups. {{Motorways and Trunk Roads in England}} was created in 2018 and covers all roads in England (not UK) that are maintained by Highways England, grouped by Highways England's own internal management structure. This is a much less obvious subject matter (and subgrouping) which I would suggest is of little interest to most of our readers except for employees of Highways England. So I'd suggest deletion, but if deletion isn't agreed I'd oppose merger as the two templates cover very different subject matters, and rename it "Roads maintained by Highways England". -- Dr Greg  talk  12:04, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
• Do nothing. The {{Motorways and Trunk Roads in England}} template describes trunk roads in England and who manages them like {{Motorways and Trunk Roads in Wales}} does for Wales. RichardHC, 2 May 2021, 20:27 BST

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Izno (talk) 01:44, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 21:53, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Comment: I have invited members of WikiProject United Kingdom and WikiProject Highways to comment. -- Dr Greg  talk  22:32, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep. as is I'm aware of the various disussions on us of England. versus UK, and I don't think we should try to pre-empt them here, evenfor something as minor as this. DGG ( talk ) 23:41, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Template:Contra dance

• Template:Contra dance (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Navbox which fails the "rule of five" and contains only links that are already present in the articles concerned. User:GKFX^talk 20:09, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• (Speaking as someone with subject expertise) It's definitely a remnant of an older era in which sidebar usage wasn't as standardized as it is these days. IAR, I kinda like it, as there are three main contra dance articles, and it makes it a lot easier to navigate between them than just relying on the links in the body. If we wanted to expand rather than delete it, we could add pages like Country Dance and Song Society (umbrella organization for contra dance groups in the U.S.) and Flurry Festival (annual festival with contra dancing as main attraction). I'm also hoping to launch Draft:Money Musk (a specific notable contra dance) at some point. Overall, idk; the whole area is in need of a lot of improvement, and it's hard to tell at this point what the best ultimate structure for it will be. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:35, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Delete Wow it's being nominated again for the first time in fourteen years. This is a valid argument for deletion. It's too short to justify keeping it. The articles about form and choreography are linked to the mainspace Contra dance article. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 20:41, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Template:Infobox African Games Algeria

• Template:Infobox African Games Algeria (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Following this discussion the meta-templates storing information such as this one were deleted (including those for Algeria at the Olympics, Paralympics, and Aquatics). Not sure how, but this template managed to escape that deletion run, so really all that's necessary is a subst and delete per the precedent set by the previous discussion. Primefac (talk) 01:31, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Delete The infobox,{{Infobox country at games}}, is the standard for countries in articles about their participation in international sporting events. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 14:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Good catch Primefac. – Ianblair23 (talk) 12:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

4TeamBrackets

• Template:4TeamBracket-2legs-with 3rd (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:4TeamBracket-2legsExceptFinalwith3rd (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:4TeamBracket-2legFinal (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:4TeamBracket-2LegFinal (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:4TeamBracket-Tennis53 (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:4TeamBracket-Tennis35-with third (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
• Template:4TeamBracket-Tennis3-with seven (talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)

Unused after replaced with {{4TeamBracket}}. –Aidan721 (talk) 01:23, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

• Delete per nomination. Just like the other team bracket templates from the more recent discussions in the past few days. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 14:26, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
• Delete per nomination. --Wolbo (talk) 14:50, 17 May 2021 (UTC)