Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/J. K. Rowling/archive1: Difference between revisions
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:::Agree with {{no ping|Johnbod}} above. <span style="background-color:#20B2AA;padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px">[[User:A._C._Santacruz|<span style="color:#fff">Santacruz</span>]] <span style="color:#fff">⁂</span> [[User talk:A._C._Santacruz|<span style="color:#fff">Please ping me!</span>]]</span> 14:35, 6 January 2022 (UTC) |
:::Agree with {{no ping|Johnbod}} above. <span style="background-color:#20B2AA;padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px">[[User:A._C._Santacruz|<span style="color:#fff">Santacruz</span>]] <span style="color:#fff">⁂</span> [[User talk:A._C._Santacruz|<span style="color:#fff">Please ping me!</span>]]</span> 14:35, 6 January 2022 (UTC) |
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:{{u|Ealdgyth}} if you get to a place in the next few days where you can access a computer, could you look at the four bios above and give a thumbs up or down as to whether we should invest any time looking at them vis-a-vis the high quality requirement? Sorry to trouble you when you’re on the road, but there isn’t much out there yet on her. [[User:SandyGeorgia|'''Sandy'''<span style="color: green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 02:04, 7 January 2022 (UTC) |
:{{u|Ealdgyth}} if you get to a place in the next few days where you can access a computer, could you look at the four bios above and give a thumbs up or down as to whether we should invest any time looking at them vis-a-vis the high quality requirement? Sorry to trouble you when you’re on the road, but there isn’t much out there yet on her. [[User:SandyGeorgia|'''Sandy'''<span style="color: green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 02:04, 7 January 2022 (UTC) |
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:: Okay, the Shapiro book is definitely oriented towards teenagers at best... probably more likely a pre-teen audience. It's from a reputable publisher, but because of its intended audience, I'd not rank it very high. Likewise for the Kirk book - it's got the same intended audience but it is from a reputable publisher. The Smith book is likely the best of the sources, even though it's publisher is a bit more niche. The publisher seems to specialize in bios of popular culture figures, so at least it's in their specialty. The Fraser book is also aimed at children, and it's from a publisher who I've never heard of and doesn't appear to be by a well known biographer. I'd avoid the Fraser. Sorry I can't be more help! [[User:Ealdgyth|Ealdgyth]] ([[User talk:Ealdgyth|talk]]) 16:36, 8 January 2022 (UTC) |
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==Proposal to trim "Politics" section== |
==Proposal to trim "Politics" section== |
Revision as of 16:36, 8 January 2022
Article stats
Pre-FAR version 8,487 words
FAC Nominator User:Serendipodous
- Serendipodous 15.3%
- Rodw 12.9%
- AleatoryPonderings 6.6% (first edit 2022-01-05 02:45)
- Serendipodous · 1,126 (54.4%)
- Eagle Owl · 225 (10.9%)
- JennKR · 141 (6.8%)
Stats extracted on 2022-01-05, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:51, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Notifications not done
FormalDude thank you for the notification, but I am not one of the editors that needs to be notified, and you have not yet notified the WikiProjects listed on talk, and you have not linked any of your notifications here on the FAR, and you have not yet explained which sections require better summary, nor have you given examples of instability. The instructions at WP:FAR explain the steps you should follow; if you don’t understand them, pls ask. Not doing the notifications will add unnecessary time to the FAR, as a certain amount of time is needed in each phase, after notifications are done. You can look at Wikipedia:Featured article review/Chaco Culture National Historical Park/archive1 for what notifications look like; they include all WikiProjects linked on talk, and significant editors as determined by the tools. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:11, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks SandyGeorgia for the explanation, I wasn't aware of the requirement for notifying each associated WP. It looks like an editor has kindly taken care of that for me, or I otherwise would have as soon as I was able. I'll go ahead and provide more detail to my nomination as well. ––FormalDude
talk 08:20, 18 December 2021 (UTC)
Biographies - to cite or not to cite
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Purple_arrow_down.svg/20px-Purple_arrow_down.svg.png)
This may be better suited for the FAR page, but one potential weak point I've noticed on the sourcing for this BLP is the general lack of references to biographies of Rowling. I'm not sure if this is because the existing biographies are poor or because we just haven't referenced them. The ones I can see on the Internet Archive are:
- J.K. Rowling : a biography by Sean Smith (Michael O'Mara Books)
- J.K. Rowling : a biography by Connie Ann Kirk (Greenwood Press, an imprint of Greenwood Publishing Group; cited in the article but quite short and seems aimed at children)
- J.K. Rowling : the wizard behind Harry Potter by Marc Shapiro (St. Martin's Griffin, an imprint of St. Martin's Press)
- J.K. Rowling : the mystery of fiction by Lindsey Fraser (Argyll Publishing; idk if it's a legit publisher or not)
Most of these are quite short and not all are from publishers I'd completely trust. But a featured article BLP should presumably be citing quality biographies if they exist and not one-off news stories for biographical information. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 20:59, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
- See my comment on the FAR about the relative need to beef up straight bio info (that is, this is her bio, and we have sub-articles on the rest). (PS, Aleatory, you can also raise general questions like this by starting your own section at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/J. K. Rowling/archive1, so that everything related to the FAR will be in one place.) Or, all of the FAR can be kept on this page; hard to know which is best, but splitting is not optimal. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:03, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
- I would think its rather early for quality biographies, especially as she presumably hasn't done a deal for an "authorized" one, and her life is once again hitting the headlines. She's only 56 after all. Johnbod (talk) 21:05, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
- Yes, none of them look that great—and some are explicitly flagged as "unauthorised", although that doesn't necessarily indicate low quality, just low approval by JKR/her agent. I wanted to look into this because I was mildly horrified to see her birth date—one of the most basic biographical details and easiest to get exactly right—sourced in this version to a deadlink bio from her American publisher and ""Rowling, J.K.". World Book. 2006", which presumably refers to World Book Encyclopedia, but is remarkably unclear. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 22:41, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
- Agree with Johnbod above. Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 14:35, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Ealdgyth if you get to a place in the next few days where you can access a computer, could you look at the four bios above and give a thumbs up or down as to whether we should invest any time looking at them vis-a-vis the high quality requirement? Sorry to trouble you when you’re on the road, but there isn’t much out there yet on her. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:04, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
- Okay, the Shapiro book is definitely oriented towards teenagers at best... probably more likely a pre-teen audience. It's from a reputable publisher, but because of its intended audience, I'd not rank it very high. Likewise for the Kirk book - it's got the same intended audience but it is from a reputable publisher. The Smith book is likely the best of the sources, even though it's publisher is a bit more niche. The publisher seems to specialize in bios of popular culture figures, so at least it's in their specialty. The Fraser book is also aimed at children, and it's from a publisher who I've never heard of and doesn't appear to be by a well known biographer. I'd avoid the Fraser. Sorry I can't be more help! Ealdgyth (talk) 16:36, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
Proposal to trim "Politics" section
Considering we have sub-articles, below is my proposal to trim the Politics section by 100 words. It covers all the same territory, reduces some WP:PROSELINE, adds WP:NONENG quotes on El Pais, and combines like topics rather than following a chrono order. Unless anyone objects, I will install it later tonight. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:59, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
Politics
Draft installed in article, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:08, 8 January 2022 (UTC) | ||||
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | ||||
References
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Discussion of Politics draft
- Thanks much for this. Agree with the trimming with one exception. The "pro-Union" addition is confusing in context because the source looks like it's about the union of the United Kingdom, not the European Union, and the new text seems to replace discussion of the Scottish independence referendum. So it conflates two controversial (dis)unions: the United Kingdom and the European Union. I might delete the last paragraph about Israel because the sources are primary or primary-proximate and it doesn't seem to have made any lasting splash. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!)
- Two minor points. 1) Don't love the one-sentence opening paragraph; suggest combining it with the next. 2) As above, "pro-Union" is confusing; the unfamiliar reader would expect this to mean pro trade-union, or pro-European union, and it means neither. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:43, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Oops. Will rejig. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:28, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- @Vanamonde93 and AleatoryPonderings:, redone here; please have another look? AP, I hesitate to entirely remove Israel without hearing from others, lest that set off a sensitive issue or an edit war, but if others agree, we might re-consider ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:40, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- The Scotland/UK thing is cleared up—thanks. Two small points on a second look. know it's a translation from Spanish and "democrat" is uncapitalized in El País, but wanting a lower-case democrat in the White House (especially these days) is different from wanting a Democrat in the White House. Also, is there a non-contentious link we can add for "cultural boycott of Israel"? The definite article implies that there is a specific one, but it's not clear if BDS movement or another of the boycotts of Israel is meant there. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 20:20, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- On El Pais, because of the way Spanish handles lower and uppercase, we can't be certain what was intended (although the context strongly suggests Democrat). I'll recast that quote to avoid that part altogether, for the absence of doubt. On the "cultural boycott of Israel", I cannot access The Guardian article, but based on other sources I read that are all saying the same thing, it may be better to also rephrase that part to avoid the need for a link, and phrase it instead as supporting cultural engagement with Israel. Will rejig so you can have a new look. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:52, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Agree with edits. Would suggest using, instead of/in addition to TwitLonger as a cite for the second sentence, the following. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 21:11, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Flood, Alison (27 October 2015). "JK Rowling explains refusal to join cultural boycott of Israel". The Guardian. Retrieved 6 January 2022.
- "J.K. Rowling defends opposition to cultural boycott of Israel". The Times of Israel. Jewish Telegraphic Agency. 27 October 2015. Retrieved 6 January 2022.
- AleatoryPonderings, can you get through The Guardian paywall? I'd much rather use it than the Twitlong that is there, but I can't read The Guardian, so can't be certain it verifies the text. I'd rather not use a Jewish newspaper lest that raise concerns of bias. How about if you switch to The Guardian after I add the text, because then we don't have to do a dance about who can verify that part. Else, you could put direct quotes here ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Halfway through this work, I hit my limit on free access to The Guardian ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:18, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- The relevant passages are:
- JK Rowling has spoken out further about her decision not to join a cultural boycott of Israel, saying that while she has “deplored” most of the actions of Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu, she does not believe a decision by artists to refrain from cultural relations with the country will force him from power. ... Rowling was one of more than 150 signatories to a letter published in the Guardian last week, along with names including Melvyn Bragg, Hilary Mantel and Simon Schama. The letter was written in response to a February missive signed by around 700 artists calling for a cultural boycott of Israel. The letter signed by Rowling cites its signatories’ belief that “cultural boycotts singling out Israel are divisive and discriminatory, and will not further peace”, and that “cultural engagement builds bridges, nurtures freedom and positive movement for change”.... Rowling said yesterday that “a number of readers” had asked for more information about why she signed the letter. She wrote on TwitLonger: “I have deplored most of Mr Netanyahu’s actions in office. However, I do not believe that a cultural boycott will force Mr Netanyahu from power, nor have I ever heard of a cultural boycott ending a bloody and prolonged conflict. “If any effects are felt from the proposed boycott, it will be by ordinary Israelis, many of whom did not vote for Mr Netanyahu. Those Israelis will be right to ask why cultural boycotts are not also being proposed against – to take random examples – North Korea and Zimbabwe, whose leaders are not generally considered paragons by the international community.”If you clear your cookies the article counter resets to 0, and I say this as a subscriber. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 21:35, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Good to know :) I see that Victoriaearle is editing now, and because edit conflicts give her an awful time with her health, I'll stop now and wait 'til she stops editing to pop this bit in. Tomorrow I'll do similar with the Press section. Then we might wait until everything else settles and everything is hanging together better with the literary bits before we tackle the Transgender section, and lastly, the Lead. By the way, thanks for this after I found that odd statement already in the article. I parked the MEDRS source there, hoping to go back and find the origin of that misinformation (which was not in the FA version), but now you've let me off the hook of going back to do that work :) I doubt that statement ever had any basis, but it seems to be a myth that took hold, with Wikipedia's help. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:26, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- JK Rowling has spoken out further about her decision not to join a cultural boycott of Israel, saying that while she has “deplored” most of the actions of Israeli prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu, she does not believe a decision by artists to refrain from cultural relations with the country will force him from power. ... Rowling was one of more than 150 signatories to a letter published in the Guardian last week, along with names including Melvyn Bragg, Hilary Mantel and Simon Schama. The letter was written in response to a February missive signed by around 700 artists calling for a cultural boycott of Israel. The letter signed by Rowling cites its signatories’ belief that “cultural boycotts singling out Israel are divisive and discriminatory, and will not further peace”, and that “cultural engagement builds bridges, nurtures freedom and positive movement for change”.... Rowling said yesterday that “a number of readers” had asked for more information about why she signed the letter. She wrote on TwitLonger: “I have deplored most of Mr Netanyahu’s actions in office. However, I do not believe that a cultural boycott will force Mr Netanyahu from power, nor have I ever heard of a cultural boycott ending a bloody and prolonged conflict. “If any effects are felt from the proposed boycott, it will be by ordinary Israelis, many of whom did not vote for Mr Netanyahu. Those Israelis will be right to ask why cultural boycotts are not also being proposed against – to take random examples – North Korea and Zimbabwe, whose leaders are not generally considered paragons by the international community.”If you clear your cookies the article counter resets to 0, and I say this as a subscriber. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 21:35, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- The relevant passages are:
- Halfway through this work, I hit my limit on free access to The Guardian ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:18, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Agree with edits. Would suggest using, instead of/in addition to TwitLonger as a cite for the second sentence, the following. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 21:11, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- On El Pais, because of the way Spanish handles lower and uppercase, we can't be certain what was intended (although the context strongly suggests Democrat). I'll recast that quote to avoid that part altogether, for the absence of doubt. On the "cultural boycott of Israel", I cannot access The Guardian article, but based on other sources I read that are all saying the same thing, it may be better to also rephrase that part to avoid the need for a link, and phrase it instead as supporting cultural engagement with Israel. Will rejig so you can have a new look. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:52, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- The Scotland/UK thing is cleared up—thanks. Two small points on a second look. know it's a translation from Spanish and "democrat" is uncapitalized in El País, but wanting a lower-case democrat in the White House (especially these days) is different from wanting a Democrat in the White House. Also, is there a non-contentious link we can add for "cultural boycott of Israel"? The definite article implies that there is a specific one, but it's not clear if BDS movement or another of the boycotts of Israel is meant there. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 20:20, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Will insert this now as I see Victoria is taking a break. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:54, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- The politics section was in really strong need of cleanup/improvement. Great work! Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 23:04, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks! We are making faster progress than I thought we would, but we'll see how that chop fares. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:07, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- I'm terribly impressed as well, that's why I changed my opinion from "delist" to "lets wait and see". Once we're done with the whole content improvement part of the FAR I'll join in and help with the grammar aspect as I tend to be much more helpful in that area. It's certainly very cool to see experienced FA editors go about their business in real-time. Today I was describing why I love the behind-the-scenes curation aspect of Wikipedia to a friend: it's like the Wizard of Oz but the actual magic is behind the scenes! Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 23:12, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- That's the fun of FAR :) Go lodge some !votes at WP:FASA ! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- I'll wait for the closure of this FAR as I am unfamiliar with the other articles listed, SandyGeorgia. Great award I hope to receive some day :D Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 23:30, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- That's the fun of FAR :) Go lodge some !votes at WP:FASA ! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:17, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- I'm terribly impressed as well, that's why I changed my opinion from "delist" to "lets wait and see". Once we're done with the whole content improvement part of the FAR I'll join in and help with the grammar aspect as I tend to be much more helpful in that area. It's certainly very cool to see experienced FA editors go about their business in real-time. Today I was describing why I love the behind-the-scenes curation aspect of Wikipedia to a friend: it's like the Wizard of Oz but the actual magic is behind the scenes! Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 23:12, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks! We are making faster progress than I thought we would, but we'll see how that chop fares. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:07, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
- Can we get rid of "(husband of her close friend Sarah)"? I don't believe it adds to the readers comprehension of the section, and is already stated in the article. BilledMammal (talk) 10:25, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
- That would be fine with me; I was trying not to rock the boat with too many changes at once. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 10:29, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Accio
Collapse of amazing work done by AleatoryPonderings, all done, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:06, 8 January 2022 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Starting a list here: SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:20, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
References
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@Ben MacDui: in case you are about, I was wondering if you have any means of accessing archives or old print versions from The Scotsman? A lot of text here is sourced to copyright violating reprints from them (they may be happy that we are protecting their copyright :), and if someone could verify the old content by going to The Scotsman, that would solve a number of issues here. Best regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:15, 7 January 2022 (UTC)