User talk:Atabəy

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User Behmod

Hi, I am sorry if you felt I was being unduly against you, Atabek, that was certainly not my intention. First of all I feel that you take every edit which is against you personally. I am neither anti-Azeri nor Anti-Turk as FYI, I am half Azeri and many of my family are Azeris. Also, I have intimate Azeri or Turkish(from Turkey)friends. I just have my point of view that might necessary the same with you, Dacy and even Hajipiruz. If you feel that we need to start talking. I am open to discuss these issues, away from the tension --behmod talk 16:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm...

Why are you distorting facts? I have never revert warred.

• Nagorno-Karabakh War - [1] Where is my revert warring? I do not see a single Azeri user contesting any of my edits.
• Varoujan Garabedian - This edit (which was over a month ago) was a simple (and explained) removal of an unsourced statement and a highly controversial category. My next edit (a month later) has nothing to do with my previous revert and touches upon something to which I explained as well. And what do these ASALA articles have to do with Armenia-Azerbaijan 2? Maybe you have Pan-Turkic thoughts...I don't know but I do not see a link.
• ASALA - Where do you see any edits (let alone reverts) done by me on that article, I do not know. My last edit on that article was in April and it was a revert on vandalism.

Show me other Armenia-Azerbaijan linked reverts I have done, not "and other". - Fedayee 00:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

For the removal of the "See also", it is generally the way it is done in Wikipedia. When an article is already linked in the body, you do not need to double link it in a "See also". I learned this through a Peer Review at ARF article which is the reason that article does not have a "See also" section.

I can't believe you actually linked the Agarunov edit because you, of all people, should know that the neutral term we use on Wikipedia is capture. You do not know of occupy being POV? You do not know of resistance being POV? **Raising eyebrow**

The change on NK (done by a random IP) was not contested and that NK war page has been discussed over and over and over again and you know this very well.

I have explained the two Varoujan edits... - Fedayee 00:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Then tell me, do you see the word "occupy" being used once in the NK war article in regards to Armenia-Azerbaijan? Why should we differ the use from one article to the other? Capture is an obvious compromise Atabek, you know all this, I am preaching to the choir. - Fedayee 00:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Armenian and Azerbaijani editors reached this compromise with the help of admins. Occupy to you, the UN, the media of Azerbaijan but liberated to Armenians. The middle ground is best to avoid conflicts here on Wikipedia since we have them so often. - Fedayee 01:13, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure exactly where in the NK article it was discussed but there are 12 archives and it was surely discussed over and over again (I, like you, was not part of any of these discussions). Nice try on the UN security resolution, it mentions only places outside Nagorno-Karabakh, NK is excluded thus making it considered disputed. And since Shushi is in NK then it is rightful to remain as neutral as possible in that disputed territory. Besides, I did not aggressively push my POV in that article, if I had done that, you would've seen "liberation of Shushi", I suggested a simple compromise that would avoid such conflicts. Your POV and "numbers" about "ethnic cleansing" are irrelevant to me and our discussion. - Fedayee 01:56, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Anna Dili

Sagh Olasan ! Baghishlasoz ke manim Azeri yazmaghim yaxchi dayir (Please forgive me if my Azeri writing is not good!) . Indeed the false image that is inducted in our northern brothers is a side effect of long lasting Russian occupation. Neither prohibition nor restriction is seen in learning mother tongue Azeri in Iran. The point is that Persian language has a very long and powerful tradition of literature and writing that is not comparable to our oral language (Azeri) .That does not diminish or humiliate our mother tongue or culture: that is a technical and historical reality. As you know, not only in Safavid, Qajar or any other Turkish language Iranian dynasty but also in ordinary people, the written and official language has been Persian, in both north and south of the Arass River. More than that, in the Ottoman Empire, the official language of the royal court was also Persian: that can't be called imposing the language.... I think that's important to notice the point that Hasan bey Zardabi was fighting to use Azeri language instead of Persian, 50 years after the Russian invasion and cessation of any political Iranian influence in Caucasus : that shows the usage of Persian was not (and is not ) by force . Zardabi himself wanted to use Azeri just because he was Narodnik and Sunni and he did thought that the backwardness and poverty of Muslim Caucasians stems in conventional roots and traditions: indeed he was against every thing that was old and in Azerbaijan that meant Azeri historical and cultural heritage plus written language that was mostly Iranian. The changing of the script from Latin to Cyrillic and Arabic shows that the Turkish language still does not have stability and formal figure. Talking with my friends in Baku, I find it out in writing Azeri, the constant dilemma is to write down that is spoken! But that's never the case in Persian, because almost every word has it's own known etymology and there is no problem in writing it down . I can't understand how is it possible to know Azeri and not to know Persian?! As an example you write " hormetli Alborz, eger sozum sizi injitdise, uzr isteyirem" : "Hormat" is from "Ehteraam" , respectfulness in Persian and Arabic , "Egar" is Persian , "M" in "soz" is Persian , " Uzr " is "Pardon " in Persian and Arabic ! / "Zardabi" is Persian : and not Sari - Sue (yellow water) / Azerbaijan is also from AZAR (fire) and bijan (baygan = fortress) and so on ....
Goxma ! bizim vazi oujur dayiir ke san fikr elisan! Gina da Tashakkour ...--Alborz Fallah 09:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Söhbətinizə qarışdığım üçün bağışlayın, yəgin ki siz etiraz etməsziniz. I agree that there are many Persian loan words in Azeri language, but at the same time there are over 1000 Azeri Turkic loan words in Persian. I do not agree that Azerbaijani language had no written tradition, it exists since at least 14th century. While I agree that Persian literary culture is a lot older, it does not mean that we have no literary culture of our own. This is the point, we should care about our language and culture, and it does not mean that it is pan-Turkism or whatever, it is normal for any people to promote your own literary tradition. I regret that the relations between Azerbaijani and Iranian users came to such a point that we had to apply to arbcom, I hope for successful future cooperation in editing wiki articles. Grandmaster 10:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

San da chox xhosh galdoz ...we where talking about the unreal image of discrimination against Iranian Azeri's. I can understand that in the Azerbaijan republic, they compare the Persians to Russians and Iran to USSR because of lack of information and media biases. But that's a false image. That's impossible to consider them alike .I know that the self esteem and dignity of our Azeri counterparts suffered a lot in conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan and also in struggle for independent identity for a new country. But I'm insisting the same is not true about Iran and Iranian Azeri's. That prejudice about "torturing and jailing people for demanding language right" (as atabek says) as an on-going tragedy in Iran, is totally unreal and impossible in Iran: Iran is not and has never been a country like USSR.

About the inconvenience in arbcom , I think all of this begin when Dacy reacted in an unfriendly manner in Iranian Azerbaijan history and threatened to get it to the arbcom. Do you think is there any other choice for someone like me(Iranian Azeri)other than choosing Iran, when some one claims that "degree of integration of Azerbaijanis in Iranian society" is diminished because a mere cartoon ,by a personal opinion and not based on any text ? And what can I do when a hypersensitive person reacts a simple edit with improper response?In contrast,Grandmaster may remember my contribution in Paytakaran and willingness to support his point of view --Alborz Fallah 17:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• For Atabek: Well, about the "Iranian Elements in Azeri grammar and vocabulary ", I can recommend [2] (section ix. Iranian Elements in Azeri Turkish ).Borrowing per se is not the important point , as French words in English and Arabic in Persian, but the point is frequency of usage and heritage of a language in the written from. As an example , the Arabic words in the Persian language have a background of a thousand years usage in the written form and the PersoArabic script was invented and used by both of Arabic and Persian in the same time. Then the Persian language has no problem in writing down , pronunciation or ethimology of a word like "Ehteram" , but in Turkish , we still have to search for a cast to write our language : if the tradition of writing Turkish has a long and applied history , then why after so much time , in resent century , it's script changed for many times ? Why there is no single script of Turkish in the tombs, mosques, coins or personal documents? What has been the reason for almost every Azeri poet to write more in Persian than Azeri or for many to write only in Persian?
  About the Atorpat , the person's name itself is derived from the Persian word and the tile of Atorpat and Alexander was mentioned in an ancient Sasanid era book that it's name is Arda viraf nameh. Still in Persian, the word Azar means fire and is the name of the 9th month of the year, and the word padegan is used as an army fortress: that does not need any sophisticated etymologyical discussion. --Alborz Fallah 18:55, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I would say that USSR was lot more liberal in terms of cultural autonomy that Iran ever was. While USSR was a totalitarian regime, it granted all people the right to promote their language and culture. For instance, in USSR Azerbaijani language had an official state language status along with Russian in the Azerbaijan SSR. All the official documents in Azerbaijan needed to be prepared in 2 languages, Russian and Azerbaijani. Even passports had 2 title pages, one in Russian and 1 in Azeri. There was a state run television channel in Azerbaijani language, plenty of newspapers, books, radio channels, etc. Azerbaijani language was taught in all schools, even Russian language schools had Azerbaijani language lessons. Same with universities in Azerbaijan SSR. You cannot say that Azerbaijani language has any status in Iran. The point of all this is not to make any anti-Iranian statement, I just brought this up since you mentioned USSR. In any case, I think we should refrain from confrontational approach and edit the articles in cooperation. I know that you are a good person, interested in the history of our region, and I’m sure we can improve the articles by joint efforts. Grandmaster 05:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Canvassing

Why do you continue to canvass every single report un-related to me with accusations against me Atabek? Because several Iranian editors are involved in editing Iran related articles this makes them all meat puppets? What about you, Dacy69 and your other pals? Dont you all edit several of the same articles? Why is that the only person throwing around accusations is you, have I ever called your friends meat puppets? If everyone on Wikipedia who edits in a certain way can be called a meat puppet, then that would make all Wikipedia's meat puppets, as every single Wikipedian has to take one side or another on an issue, because we all have our own opinions. What a ridiculous accusation to make, its completely based on "well, you edited there, and he edited there, so you guys must be meat puppets!" that makes no sense. I have told you several times to stop canvassing, but it seems that you just keep doing it more in an attempt to get me frustrated.Hajji Piruz 14:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Arbcom Injunction violation - Block

You have been blocked from editing for a short time in accordance with your revert parole Please be more careful to discuss controversial changes or seek dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below.

≈ jossi ≈ (talk)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, - Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 16:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Repeated RfC claim

I'm not sure why you keep saying that Hajji Piruz convinced me to file an RfC against you. As can clearly be seen from the history of the RfC, Piruz filed the RfC, not me. What I did, certifying the RfC, is neither filing an RfC against you nor suggesting that Piruz is right. -- tariqabjotu 04:33, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

My remark

• I changed it as you said. Indeed I don't want to say anything against you and my involvement is only a misunderstanding .I'm not familiar with all of these process's and I don't know how to prove I'm not all that Dacy wrote against me . All that I have done was to delete a single sentence that I thought was not sourced, and indeed that sentence about "integration of ..." was not in the original article. Anyway, I would do my best to satisfy all.--Alborz Fallah 12:33, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
• Well, As I said before, there is no real point of conflict between me and Dacy for an agreement tobe achieved ! Simply , he does not want me anything to do or anything to change!! There is a on-going conflict between he and some of the Iranian editors and I'm the innocent bystander...I not sure if his exclusion of my name will have any effects in present time or not ?
• About the image , it may not fit to the copy right codes of Wikipedia , but the other site's codes are more simple. I think you might say : "so attempts to upload it elsewhere and present again here are not quite congruent with copyright ethics ", that would be right only if that book was not an educational book! That book is published for a non-commercial , educational perpose and mentioning it anywhere may not violate it's goal of publication ; same as to copy and publish propaganda sheets of a candidate in elections. Anyway ; again I would do my best to change it to an acceptable state.The best thing that is possible for you is to have a research about this book:I think after Iranian government's protest about this book , the book has been changed , and the best answer is to show that change . After Elçibay, there have been a great improvement in Iran-Azerbijan's relations, and that can be mentioned in the article by showing the change in this minor topics.If you post me the new book-cover's image, we will change the article to a positive state.
  In the case of Great Armenia, if any map shows Iranian (or Turkey's or Azerbaijan) territory with the flag of Armenia , that is quite protestable.Historical maps of the dynasties like Safavid's is not in this category , because they (Safavids)are heritage of a group of countries (e.g : Iran , Azerbijan, Kurds and Sheia)and not only Iran.Again about that textbook , I have to mention the fact that never in Iran , there have been a border between Azeries and other Iranian people and if we where going to show the places that "Azerbaijani people have historically resided" , we also have to show the Khorasan proviance(Mostly North part of it ),Fars(qashghayi) , Mazandaran , Gorgan and Tehran itself! And if we use the term Median equal to Azerbijani , that would be impossible to depict a mere line or border any where in Iran to separate Azeris from the other Iranians.
  Thankyou again and have a nice time... --Alborz Fallah 08:06, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

• • • Sorry for intervention, but from what I could see that book was published back in 1994. Such textbooks are not used anymore. Grandmaster 09:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the quote. I think all of this should be mentioned in the article:both the first and the second history text and the positive changes .Iranian government and Iranian people have very strong ties with the Azerbaijani people and the reason for the cold relations should be mentioned. Finding the roots of coldness is not only a foreign relations need , but also an internal obsession .--Alborz Fallah 23:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I would not say that the relations between the two countries are cold. I think they are good, it is just some people on both sides who make them look tense. The current article on relations between the two countries contains too much negative info and too little info on positive aspects. Grandmaster 05:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Considering the potential that exist between Iran and Azerbaijan and comparing with Turkey (that has lesser cultural ties to Azerbaijan republic), the relations between twin nations are bitter cold. There exists a point of view in Azerbaijani community (mostly north of Arass and to a lesser extent in Iran itself) that accuses Iran not to support Azerbaijan in Azeri-Armenian war as it was supposed. Then mentioning the causes and existence of this problem is useful for both Iran and Azerbaijan, for internal and external reasons. If we show the previous problems that are now solved, that's the best help for the relations of the twin countries. --Alborz Fallah 08:19, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

There are plenty examples of successful cooperation, and while users on both sides are more concerned about digging any possible negative stuff, we should make some effort to include positive info. I will do some research, even though I’m quite busy with arbcom and other issues. But it is true, many people in Azerbaijan view Iran as an ally of Armenia. Grandmaster 09:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

User:Anoshirawan

User:Anoshirawan is a new sockpuppet of User:Tajik, I am 100% sure, can you do a checkuser on him or report him to admins. He is going around vandalising articles and pushing his POVs as usual. Check Ahmad Shah Durrani article, where he claims was the king of Khorasan, but the encyclopedia Britannica reference clearly states he was King of Afghanistan. Tajik is also calling "Afghans" as "Afghanistanis", which is something nobody use. You may delete this message.--Rabeenaz 15:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Why are you asking me to file a checkuser? You seem to be another provocative sockpuppet, with whom I have no association. Atabek 15:57, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Hajj Piruj

Sorry, I had not seen that - my mistake. Perspicacite 00:48, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Merhaba, sizin VikiProje Türkiye'ye katılabileceğinizi düşündük. Ayrıca yalnız başınıza ya da diğer kullanıcılarla birlikte Türkiye ile ilgili maddeleri düzenleyip geliştirebilirsiniz. Eğer projemize katılmak istiyorsanız lütfen katılımcılar sayfasını ziyaret edin ve adınızı yazın ya da projenin tartışma sayfasına tıklayın. Eğer herhangi bir sorunuz varsa benimle ya da bir başka VikiProje Türkiye üyesi ile bağlantı kurabilirsiniz. Hello, we were thinking that you may possibly want to join WikiProject Turkey. There you can also find and contact users who are trying to improve Turkey-related articles. If you would like to get involved, just visit the participants page and/or inquire at the project's talk page. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me or any other member of the WikiProject Turkey.

--Absar 11:27, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Your edits

Removing sourced content and then adding "alleged" is vandalism. Please stop. IrishGuy ^talk 22:47, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Iranian states

Hi,

Would you please take a look at List of Iranian states and empires. The article claims that Ottoman Empire was an Iranian state and to justify this cites some sources that only mention some cultural borrowings from Persians. But the same arguement can be made about Arabs, Greeks, etc. But nobody calls Ottomans an Arab or Greek state! I tried to fix the problem but some editors keep pushing their POV.Heja Helweda 16:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Azeri film

Check out Balaxanıda neft fontanı only a few thousand film to go! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 21:47, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't beleive there is only one film on wikipedia!!! There is over a thousand!! Someday I hope we will have a detailed article on each film.

I just added another film and I created

♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 21:54, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Can you help with rewording the lettering into english. The titles don't have to be translated but the Azeri lettering needs to be anglicanized ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 21:56, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

For instance Qafqaz və Merkuri cəmiyyətinin paroxodunun limandan yola düşməsi ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 21:59, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes although I usually prefer to keep the original title without the Azeri lettering but the english stated in the intro ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 22:04, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I just started Bibiheybətde neft fontanı yanğını -thats four films started. If you could also help translate from Azeri wikipedia -it has a bit of info!! this would be of enormous benefit. Unfortunately I don't know any Azeri!! I'm off to bed now but I'm sure I can continue tomorrow ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 22:11, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

That perfect exactly what I meant. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 22:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou. Lets get all the Azeri films onto English wikipedia huh and put imdb to shame!!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 22:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

You might be right actually that english works better with the titles. The Oil Fountain at ... would look Ok do you tthink? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 22:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

However I would like to keep the Azeri titles in the film lists with the english by the side ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 09:43, 10 August 2007 (UTC) I would suggest the Azeri title then a br (< >) -a BREAK with the english underneath. Good work so far!! ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 09:46, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I've just started Ahmed Aghdamski look good?. Azeri wikipedia has tons of info on him!!! Yes it is difficult deciding whether to translate the titles. I think English should be OK as long as the original Azeri title is also in bold in the article intro . Also if there is a cast this goes in a section with the characters they playerd -its just the actor names in the info box ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 10:06, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Ia dded the plot to The Cloth Peddler -good work. I know about the infobox. I've brought it up at WP Films before. I would like to see columns for Art direction, Sound department, genre, casting and second unit. Maybe we could propose it again as for the earlier films these are particularly relevant. Also the column Choreographer is important for Indian films in particular ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 10:14, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I know - see The Cloth Peddler. The 1945 version was the most famous - google has lots of screenshots of it. I selected a general opera image to illustrate ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 10:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Wow thats interesting!!! I've started Aleksandr Mişon. If you could help translate from Azerbaijani wikipedia this would be great - he was the pioneer of Azeri cinema after all. Remember though to do the Azeri title redirects to the English ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 10:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Good. I'v now started Boris Svetlov. Now I will start all the films 1898-1919 ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 11:07, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Any idea if Uzeyir Hajibeyov was also a film score composer? I've done some more now. I'll try to add a few more later. The list from 1964-present hasn't even been listed yet ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 12:06, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Azeri film companies

Hi I need you to check this. Can you see Ağ-Qara Filmlər and Qısametrajlı Sənədli Filmlər. Is one a producer or one a distributor?. I need you to distinguish between them and whether the info is correct first before I add any more films ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 08:54, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi can you add the translated titles to List of Azerbaijani films: 1920s when you have spare moment cheers ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 14:57, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Cool. Progess may be slow though as I am doing a lot of work on France and American at present which are perhaps the two largest. Check out French films of the 1920s compared the French films of 1940 and you'll see I've begun!!! Hey Garry Kasparov is from Baku isn't he? ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 18:41, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes I always associate countries like Hungary, Bulgaria, Russia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Armenia as having some of the worlds geniuses at chess -there seem so many from these countries in the profesion. The Polgar girls are from Hungary and the current world champion is Bulgarian I think. Kasparov reportedly has an IQ of around 190! Incredible genius. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 18:51, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

With the Azeri films the best thing I think you can do is gradually ensure all the titles have the english wikified ready for starting. Note though I only got as far as 1964 adding the titles. I think it more important to complete the tables first with direcor and cast details also than starting the articles at present. This way we have a firm basis to add all the pages from. ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 18:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Youtube

I don't know of a specific policy, but considering he put it in multiple articles, without formatting, without summary, I figured it was POV spam. I could be wrong. --Golbez 04:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Little context in United States-Azerbaijan relations

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Azerbaijani handball players

Hi, my name is Martin and I am currently working on the Olympic handball tournaments. Now I have created three articles about Azerbaijani handball players and I would like to ask you for some help as I have seen, that you have done already a lot of contributions to biographies. The players are: Larisa Savkina, Rafiga Shabanova and Lyudmila Shubina. Mainly it would be great if you can add their names in Azerbaijani language and to have a look, if their names were transliterated correctly into English. Many thanks in advance and :) Doma-w 23:09, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Khojali

I've added it to the footer template, that should be sufficient. --Golbez 01:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 Closed

The case in which you were involved in was closed. According to the records, you were placed on revert parole (now called revert limitations), and as such, you are affected by this remedy, which places you on supervised editing. You may be banned by any administrator from editing any or all articles which relate to the region of Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Iran and the ethnic and historical issues related to that area should you fail to maintain a reasonable degree of civility in your interactions with another editor concerning disputes which may arise.

You may view the full decision at the case page here.

For the Arbitration Committee,
- Penwhale | ^{Blast him / Follow his steps} 00:03, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Re:Mamuka Kikaleishvili

Hi Atabek. Thanks for the article. I'll work on it. Cheers, --Kober^Talk 04:45, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Vakhtang Kikabidze

Done it. Will add more details later. Best, --Kober^Talk 07:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Reverts by Hetoum I

I believe that I'm at fault in this case, I was not entirely clear in the warning I gave. I have clarified it, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 06:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Your images

Hi, I've had to tag several of your recent image uploads for deletion. Please make sure you understand our image copyright policies, especially WP:NFCC, before uploading more images. Thank you, Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, let's see, about those images:

• All images: need reference to the exact, original source. In the case of screenshots, that's the name of the movie or programme it's ultimately taken from, plus any website that contained the photo (in case you didn't make the screenshot yourself).
• Image:Rustam Ibrahimbeyov.jpg - no way this could be saved, because it's a living person so it's replaceable with a free photo somebody might make some day.
• Image:The Scoundrel (1988 film).jpg - needs source info explaining who made that weird montage of the three heads cut together in different sizes. Plus, needs an explanation of what you actually intend to show with it: does it show something characteristic about the characters of the movie, about its artistic style, about what? Plus, the article itself should actually refer to this. Remember, "fair use" is all about doing "critical commentary or analysis", so there should actually be some analysis of what the image shows, in the text.
• Image:Anecdote (1989 film) 1.jpg - same as above. Plus, it needs to be removed from Rasim Balayev, because as a portrait of the actor it's replaceable.
• Image:Mirzaagha Aliyev.JPG - you might want to check if this is public domain by now (being published more than 70 years ago, there's a chance it might be, depending on the laws of the country.) If it is, you're fine; if not, the same rules apply as for those above.
• Image:Mamuka Kikaleishvili.jpg - since he's now dead and no new free images can be produced, we generally tend to tolerate non-free images a bit more liberally. Again, you need to specifiy the exact source, and give an explanation of why you need the image - is it a particularly well-known role of his? a particularly important stage in his career? a characteristic pose or style of appearance?

HTH, --Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:36, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thanks, those two look good now. Just go ahead with the others; I'll take another look at them some time later and remove the tags (or some other reviewing admin will.) As I said, only the Ibrahimbeyov one will probably have to be deleted anyway. --Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Interest

Azer gardash, this will interest you [3]. Yiyim. Iberieli 15:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello Atabek. Sure, i'll try to find Azeri brother, no problem. How are things in beautiful Baku? Gurcustan + Azerbaican = gardash :) yiyim. Iberieli 03:00, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Azeri brother, thanks a lot. I will email you. You should also resolve the Khojaly massacre photo issue. Its under attack. Thanks. Iberieli 17:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Warning Ban related to ArbCom remedy

Atabek, comments like "I am not an expert on spiritual or moral matters, but what's your opinion on deliberate removal of evidence, link or reference to blinding, maiming and brutal murder of a 3-4-year old child by as you would call it "heroes", "liberators" or "fedayins", relating to the topic of this article. Is this also WP:SOAP?" [4] are unacceptable. That's an incivil implication that an editor was removing a video for motives other than copyright concerns. "Or perhaps, the attempt is to prove further that no Azeri soul resided in this city built by Azeri Panah-khan?" [5] is similar, and is covered by this ArbCom remedy. Stirring up the pot like this is not helpful and if there are future incivil comments like these I will ban you from the relevant articles or block you for one week.--Chaser - T 19:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I missed something. I am enacting a ban under that remedy. The ban applies for four days to the articles liberally included in the remedy. The comment I take issue with is: "But the most important question is, what's your moral stance on supporting the recognition of Armenian massacres as genocide, while removing images or videos of Khojaly Massacre? Do you think the extreme savagery, with which those innocent children on pictures or videos were murdered, should not be made public because those children were Azeri?" [6] for reasons explained above (this is continuing the same insinuations and mixing the issues). This ban will be enforced by block if necessary and extended if a ban violation involves any further incivility.--Chaser - T 20:09, 2 September 2007 (UTC) If it wasn't clear from the previous remarks, this applies to the articles' talk pages, as well.--Chaser - T 03:42, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Chaser, please, explain why you were first warning above at 19:53, 2 September 2007 and then enacting a ban at 03:42, 3 September 2007, when I never signed in or edited Wikipedia between the two dates of warning and a ban? Also, please, explain in detail on how this comment [7], is supposed to be incivil? Thanks. Atabek 21:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

There are three time stamps in my comments above, two in the second paragraph. The third time stamp was an afterthought from yesterday evening. The first two were much earlier. I've explained why it's uncivil above, as well. In the meantime, please don't edit articles or talk pages and then self-revert. You're welcome to make work copies of those articles in your userspace until the ban expires, which will be 6 September, 20:09. Thank you for your cooperation.--Chaser - T 23:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Chaser, I am aware of the stamps. However, ArbCom remedy here clearly says: "The remedies of revert limitations (formerly revert parole), including the limitation of 1 revert per week, civility supervision (formerly civility parole) and supervised editing (formerly probation) that were put in place at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan shall apply to any editor who edits articles which relate to Armenia-Azerbaijan and related ethnic conflicts in an aggressive point of view manner marked by incivility. Before any penalty is applied, a warning placed on the editor's user talk page by an administrator shall serve as notice to the user that these remedies apply to them.". Given the explanation in second remedy for the procedure in first remedy, I don't quite understand why first rule was chosen for me without second, while in case of User:Hetoum I, it was the second rule only. As I said, I never signed in to Wikipedia between your warning and the ban, and I believe second would be consequence of not following the warning per ArbCom remedy. Also for consistency, I expect some form of response on this [8], after all, ArbCom decisions should apply equally to all edits with incivilities. Thanks. Atabek 06:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The point is the warning above was a mistake. The warning should have been a ban to begin with. No prior warning is required. Remedy one applies to everyone who was in the prior case. Remedy two applies to everyone else. They're separate.--Chaser - T 07:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, the second remedy here says: "...shall apply to any editor who edits articles which relate to Armenia-Azerbaijan and related ethnic conflicts in an aggressive point of view manner marked by incivility.". I don't see how "any editor" would exclude those in first ArbCom, or somehow treat User:Hetoum I different from myself. Moreover, no supervised editing or civility paroles were explicitly spelled out in remedies to the first ArbCom to begin with. Atabek 07:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Atabek, do you disagree that the first remedy applies to you?--Chaser - T 07:19, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

No, I have an issue with selective application of the remedies, especially because:

• ArbCom Remedy 1 says: "Hajji Piruz and the other users placed on revert limitation in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan#Remedies are subject to supervised editing. They may be banned by any administrator from editing any or all articles which relate to the region of Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Iran and the ethnic and historical issues related to that area should they fail to maintain a reasonable degree of civility in their interactions with one another concerning disputes which may arise."
• ArbCom Remedy 2 says: "The remedies of revert limitations (formerly revert parole), including the limitation of 1 revert per week, civility supervision (formerly civility parole) and supervised editing (formerly probation) that were put in place at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan shall apply to any editor who edits articles which relate to Armenia-Azerbaijan and related ethnic conflicts in an aggressive point of view manner marked by incivility. Before any penalty is applied, a warning placed on the editor's user talk page by an administrator shall serve as notice to the user that these remedies apply to them."

I don't see how highlighted text above does not apply to me, while it somehow applies to User:Hetoum I, especially given the fact that both of us were applied the supervised editing and civility parole in ArbCom 2 first time. In fact, I also have an issue with some second ArbCom participants getting just strict 1RR restriction, and other, not less disruptive group, just getting a conditional 1RR based on civility. Did this lessen the disruptive revert warring by those "supervised" editors in any way? From past week, I don't see how. Atabek 07:26, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The first remedy applies instead of the second because ArbCom has already handled two cases with editors included in the first remedy. After two ArbCom cases no one should need any more warnings. Let me spell it out. We waste a lot of community time disciplining editors who edit this site disruptively in various ways. ArbCom is the last step of dispute resolution. It means that about a dozen hard-working people who were elected by the community at large took a long time to look into a matter and craft a resolution. If, after going through this process twice, editors are still doing the same thing, we don't have much more tolerance for it, and the regime of warnings before topical bans is over and finished. They used to call this probation, but decided to change the name to get away from legal metaphors. If thinking of it terms of probation helps you understand it, then I don't really care if someone considers it politically incorrect.--Chaser - T 07:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Chaser, thanks, I am well versed in English to understand what "probation" means, and I don't ask you to repeal my ban. However, I was only seeking consistency and explanation in application of remedies/probations/supervised editing, whatever they're termed as to all editors. And yes, it means that if User:VartanM says that I am a member of User:AdilBaguirov's team, it's the same assumption of bad faith and incivility as me questioning moral stance for removing an image of slaughtered children from the relevant massacre website. ArbCom 2 principle clearly spells out that good faith must be assumed. The remedies for ArbCom 2 are worded clearly, in text which I highlighted above. And I think the remedies and principles of ArbCom, especially when they clearly state "any editor" apply to everyone not just to those who went through previous ArbCom. Atabek 08:03, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

And to add to that another assumption of bad faith by User:TigranTheGreat - here. Atabek 08:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Remedies v. principles

What you mention here is a principle in that case, not a remedy. Remedies are the enforceable parts of Arbcom decisions. However, I will leave a message to VartanM as a third party.--Chaser - T 18:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. But I would like to still ask for another independent review of the material. I understand that it's a principle, but so it was in my case, when it was simply branded as incivility. And I would like to remind you here, what WP:CIVIL states: "Petty examples that contribute to an uncivil environment: -- Lies". Without proofs that User:AdilBaguirov has a team, and another claim that "I am a member of that team", such statements are a lie and disrupt the article edits, hence it's a clear violation of WP:CIVIL as well. So please, don't archive it, until the violation has been fully addressed. Atabek 18:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Fine.--Chaser - T 18:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I've closed the thread. An arbitrator has now weighed in. We don't have time for endless due process and 28 appeals. The issue is closed.--Chaser - T 01:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Comment removals

Just out of curiosity, may I ask why you removed your comments: [9], [10]?Hajji Piruz 19:26, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Please assume good faith. I am making the effort, and I hope that you also make the effort. Thanks.Hajji Piruz 22:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Second talk page request, please remember to assume good faith regarding all users, whether parties to the arbcom or not.Hajji Piruz 05:57, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Request

Before I engage further, I'll have to review the issue. My revert was merely to eliminate the redundant phrasing but not proved, which has the same meaning as 'alleged'. I came across it while on anti-vandal patrol. The other issue looks to be part of a larger dispute that I would really have to look into. I can't look into it right away, but I'll try tomorrow. Dreadstar † 09:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I've been trying to do a little research on the motivations and reasons why Garabedian was killing Turkish citizens, but there don't seem to be many sources. Are there books or other news reports which descirbe his motivations or reasons? I'm looking at this from a verifiability and original research perspective. Dreadstar † 16:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Image:The Scoundrel (1988 film).jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:The Scoundrel (1988 film).jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Spike Wilbury ♫ talk 16:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC) Spike Wilbury ♫ talk 16:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

What is wrong you Pan-Turksists?

You and all your buddies are trying really hard to ban Persian or Persian origin people from Wiki with your false "sock puppet" allegations. You managed to ban Tajik on your FALSE allegation of him being Tajik-Professor. You knew they weren't the same person but you saw it as an opportunity to get rid of him. And now you and your friends are at it again trying to ban others. Cut it out. -- Behnam 02:09, 8 September 2007 (UTC)