Talk:Iyengar

Why was this article moved from Iyengar? Google returns 1520 hits for Aiyangar, (and asks "Did you mean "Iyengar"?), but returns 235,000 hits for Iyengar. According to Wikipedia policy, the most common English spelling should be used. – Quadell ^{(talk) (quiz)}[[]] 17:01, Sep 18, 2004 (UTC)

Aiyangar is phonetically correct (Iyengar is not). --Rajasekaran Deepak 19:11, 2004 Sep 19 (UTC)

A weak argument. By the same standard you could argue that "thumb" shouldn't have a "B" in it for phonological reasons. What do the others think? David Cannon 19:52, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think, since Iyengar is the most common English form, and since one of the most famous Iyengars (B.K.S.) spells his name "Iyengar" when using Roman letters, that "Iyengar" should be the spelling in the title. – Quadell ^{(talk) (help)}[[]] 23:54, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

It could be mentioned in the first few lines of the article that "Aiyangar is the correct phonetic for Iyengar", but the article should still be Iyengar as that is where people are gonna come looking for. Similar correction should be made to Srinivasa Aiyangar Ramanujan. Kesava 00:37, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I'll change the spelling back, and I'll note in the introductory paragraph that "Aiyangar" is phonetically correct. – Quadell ^{(talk) (help)}[[]] 19:07, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

POV

The last para states that "In addition to their earlier occupations, Iyengars today have diversified into a variety of fields—their strengths particularly evident in the fields of law,mass media, science, engineering, mathematics and computer science." Do you have any statistical studies to prove that Iyengars are a substantial chunk in these professions compared to other castes? Arunkrishnan 11:52, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

I guess the point is majority of iyengars belong to these professions.It does not in anyway convey the converse.So let it be the way it is user:Anonymous16:34, 18 July 2006

Would this be more better classified under Category:Social groups of India instead of Category:Indian culture Alren 17:31, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

There are some other serious POV issues with this article. I just removed several instances of descriptions of various people as "renowned" or "well-known" (peacock terms). Is there a need for a POV tag to be added? Ketsuekigata (talk) 20:19, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

possible vandalism

User:220.236.152.72 made major edits to this article. They should be checked carefully. He/she has just been blocked for exceeeding 3-revert rule after repeatedly making major edits (mostly deletions) to topics in areas related to this, ignoring requests to discuss, creating separate POV versions of articles under slightly different names, etc. In this case (counter to pattern he/she has largely inserted material (although there are also deletions). Changes just might be accurate, I suggest especially checking any deletions. I won't be watching this page, so if you need to ask me something further, please ask on my talk page. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:39, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

More vandalism ?

There have been a few major deletions done to this article over the past few days. Are they genuine or the acts of a vandal ?

I am not too unhappy to see the text about incarnations go as it was irrelevant to the article, but a number of good entries in the list of famous iyengars have gone too. Tintin 14:01, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Too many professors

Is there any reason for keeping them ? They are not known outside perhaps a very small circle. Not the sort of people who would qualify for a 'famous people' list. Tintin 4 July 2005 13:35 (UTC)

Moved the professors

• Professor S.R. Srinivasa Varadhan - Mathematician & Fellow of the Royal Society
• Professor Mudumbai NARASIMHAN - Mathematician & Fellow of the Royal Society (1996)
• Professor Madabusi RAGHUNATHAN - Mathematician & Fellow of the Royal Society (2000)
• Professor Conjeeveram SESHADRI - Mathematician & Fellow of the Royal Society (1988)
• Professor Mandyam SRINIVASAN - Fellow of the Royal Society (2001)
• Rangaswamy Srinivasan - Inventor of Ablative Photodecomposition (APD) - Using Excimer Laser for Eye surgery
• Professor Cadambathur Tiruvenkatacharlu Rajagopal - Mathematician, Ramanujan Institute of Mathematics
• Professor Chidambaram Padmanabhan Ramanujam - Mathematician, TIFR

Tintin 5 July 2005 04:34 (UTC)

Tintin: These people above are very well known people depending on who you talk to. Same applies to a whole lot of other celebrities. The list was added by me after verifying the facts and with the intent of showcasing this community's contribution to academics (Mathematics in particular). Please reinstate the update. Thanks

Reverted the changes. Not very convinced, though :-) Tintin 5 July 2005 17:20 (UTC)

Not that it is terribly harmful to have them in there, but if you go along the lines of being well known in a few academic circles, then the Famous People list in many articles about communities, such as Iyer, should be greatly expanded. One unrelated thing is, why are some of the last names capitalized? I think it stands out and disrupts the flow of the text. Adityan 17:36, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Those professors were missing, so I am adding them. FYI, to be a Fellow of the Royal Society is a very high honor for a mathematician; and a very small percentage are ever so honored. It is like being a movie superstar compared with being a regular mathematics professor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.164.96.128 (talk) 03:08, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Are they Iyengars?

I have removed the ISRO chief Kasturirangan from the list.He is a Palakkad Iyer. I am not sure about Gen.K.Sundarji.Can any one clarify on this

Harishsubramanian 07:07, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

When should Vedanta desikar be on the list

Among all the people in the list Vedanta Desikar was the Greatest.But the rest of the people belonged to the modern times.Either someone should prepare an Iyengar list for all time,which must include people like Ramanujacharya or have only modern Iyengars.And I would like to put them on a separate list.Spiritual teachers need to be mentioned separately.

Harishsubramanian 07:16, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Mathas or Ashramas

Shouldn't there be a mention of the Mathas/Ashramas of followed by the Iyengars? Let me list the mathas I know :

• Andavan Ashrama
• Ahobila Matha
• Parakala Matha

Parthasarathi Ayyangar

S.Parthasarathi Ayyangar ML,IP has currently been put up for deletion. Please comment in this page if you are familiar with this person. Tintin 10:35, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Most Priests are Iyengars?

The article states that most priests in South Indian temples are Iyengars. Given that there are probably more temples to Shiva and Devi in South India than Narayana, I don't see how that can be true. The only reason I'm not cutting it out is I have no proof to back up my point either. It is something that is in need of attention, though. Adityan 17:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I have removed Rengarajan Kumaramangalam from the list. He belongs to Gounder Caste. I think Srikanth (Present Tamil Actor is Iyengar). His name is Srikanth Krishnamachari. Somebody can clarify that and add his name. Ravi

AHANA & ESHA Iyengars?

Probably Piyengars - Punjabi Iyengars!!!

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 17:12, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Unverified

The list contains names such as Chinnasamy (which Brahmins dont usually keep) and even included T.A.Sekar (which is obviously a Saivite name which Vaishnavite Iyengars dont keep). The list needs to be verified and more references included.-Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 05:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Demographics

Could someone produce links to sources on population of Iyengars??? -Ravichandar 02:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

citations??

this article is gradually expanding without providing enough/no citation , inspite of placing multiple tags the editors who add information seem to fail to provide enough notability nor citation's .--@ the $un$hine . (talk) 12:48, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Famous Iyengars

In response to Ravi's question, Srikanth was born an iyengar (pun intended). Talking on related terms, I am curious to know if people who have publicly given up their Sri Vaishnava traditions that they come of should necessarily be included in the list of famous persons ? -திருமங்கலம் அம்மங்கி ஸ்ரீராம் முரளி —Preceding unsigned comment added by Srirammurali (talk • contribs) 12:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree and find it very inappropriate to have Kamal Hassan's image in the info-box there (if that is what you are referring to.) Not that I have anything against him. Cribananda (talk) 20:18, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

+1 on removing KamalHassan image, Why we must portray Iyengar using a person who has shunned the identity. I guess there are many other popular faces which can replace him. Srikanth ^t 06:54, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of names without a corresponding page in wikipedia

While I have no problem in getting the names of people who are not quite well known widely, I can't see the justification for removing names just because there is no seperate page. One has to build that also. We can't try to impose one's perfectioinst streak get in to basic database building. If one is perfectioinist , build the page rather than deleting the names. If the argument is that , the persons for whom there is no seperate page are not famous enough, I don;t think that is good enough an argument.

Sme of the people are Bhatnagar award winners , for whom seperate page in wikipedia is not there, that does not make them any less an achiever than actors/actresses.

I think the nomenclature should be high achievers and not famous. Movie stars are the most famous , that does not entitle them to get in to the list by default

Major science award winners and academicians who aciveve excellence , may not be famous, does not disnetitle them to be in the list —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sreeranga61 (talk • contribs) 03:46, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

• Comment I suggest that for every name added that does not have an article on Wikipedia should have at least one or maybe two reliable sources cited behind the entry. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 03:59, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

That is okay. Nams which have been added have generally brought out their acheivements which have a source in one of the other sites. One can always provide the link. Some of the sites themselves may not survive for long, hence the reluctance —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sreeranga61 (talk • contribs) 09:17, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

• The names have not been removed, only commented. Try to establish the notability of the individuals by creating articles for them. The names would then be considered for inclusion. :-). Anyway, the list has been moved to List of Iyengars as maintenance has proved to be difficult. The discussion may be continued in the corresponding talk page. Regards -Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 05:21, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Sub sects of Iyengars

The sub sects of Iyengars are many and not limited to the Karnataka's Mandyam and Hebbar. Other groups such as Kilnat Iyengars (mostly from Tamil Nadu, a much larger group than Mandyam or Hebbar is found in Karnataka also),Hemmige Iyengars,Kalkunte Iyengars, Telugu Iyengars, etc.

Edgar Thurston summarizes the diffrences between Thengalai and Vadagalai Iyengars. Can they be grouped under the sub heads of Thengalai and Vadagalai so that one knows what each sect's arguments are.?--Nvvchar (talk) 01:51, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

அய்யங்கார் or ஐயங்கார்

The Tamil word அய்யங்கார் is pronounced aiʄŋɡaːʀ while the Tamil word ஐயங்கார் is pronounced eːʄŋɡaːʀ. Iyengar should be pronounced as aiʄŋɡaːʀ(அய்யங்கார்) and not as eːʄŋɡaːʀ (ஐயங்கார்) -Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 04:35, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism in Iyengar article

I have reported Vandalism to the administrator of English wikipedia who will block the user from removing contents of WP. I have added the plagiarized contents back to the page. Svr014 (talk) 15:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC) Chicagoland, Illinois, USA.

Spelling correction in the Origin section

I had to correct the spelling of Non-brahmin to non-Brahmin in regards to the discussion that talks about the origin of Thenkalai sect. Svr014 (talk) 15:47, 1 June 2009 (UTC)Chicagoland, Illinois, USA.

Addendum and modification to the article

Some body is removing contents from the WP. That is a violation and will not be tolerated (according to the administrator of the English WP). Please do not remove the contents of WP. Also, I had to rephrase and reinstate some of the contents in the Iyengar article. Svr014 (talk) 14:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC) Chicago, Illinois, USA.

Origin Aryan theory

• The Vadakalai Iyengars belong to the Indo-Aryan racial group while the Thenkalai Iyengars belong to the dravidian racial group .
• Many vaishnavite scholars concur to the understanding that many centuries ago some non-Brahmins (notably Mudaliyars, Goundars, and Chettiyars) were converted to Shri Vaishnavism ultimately forming the Thenkalai sect .

Please use a valid wikipedia citation. Linking to an article which itself has POV items is not a proper citation. Srikanth ^t 14:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I second Srikanth. Race is a highly controversial thing. Please provide sources which support claims that Vadakalai Iyengars were Aryans.-The Enforcer_{Office of the secret service} 04:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Please undo the change you made to the article Iyengar. It is authentic in my opinion and I sincerely believe seeing those statements regarding the different racial origins of Vadakalai and Thenkalai Iyengars in a website many weeks ago. I am not able to recall the site now. Can you please look over various sources on the internet that talk about the racial origins of Iyengars? Awaiting your reply —Preceding unsigned comment added by Svr014 (talk • contribs) 15:18, 25 June, 2006 (UTC) on Srikanth's talk page

Svr014, Personal Opinions cannot be entertained in WP as it does not fall under encyclopedic content.Refer WP:NOR Please use valid citations from notable, reliable sources and also rephrase the text to be in line to reflect WP:NPOV . Refer WP:RNPOV for more. Srikanth ^t 06:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

From what i googled about Origin of Thenkalai, i did not get strong,valid sources mentioning about origin.Most of them were blogs/discussion boards. They did mention about the Conversion of other caste people into Thenkalai, but did not mention that as the "formation" and hence i contest Svr014's words "ultimately forming the Thenkalai sect". Its better not to have these without a clear source as it might lead to edit wars similar to the threads/comments on the blogs/discussion boards. Srikanth ^t 06:38, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Please note that those were not my personal opinions. I read similar messages in one website but could not recollect the exact location of the website. For now I will modify/remove the statements. I will try to look for scholarly articles in Vaishnavism and later improve the article Iyengar which is an article of distinction. Svr014 (talk) 14:41, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Chicago, Illinois, USA.

• This edit shows the twisting of facts from the references to Vadakalai.
• The reference given for The Coming of Aryans and Brahmins into Kerala doesnt speak a single word about Iyengar or for that matter even the word Tamil Brahmin dont come together in the entire text.

Svr014, Request you to give proper references While and please qoute the actual text and do not intrepret references to fall in line with personal opinons. Srikanth ^t 19:29, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Please note that the publication by P.T. Srinivasa Iyengar is on Hindu Brahmins which includes Vadakalai Iyengars and Vadama Iyers. I have given appropriate references for the 'Aryan Origin' (references 11 and 12). If you have doubts please read scholarly papers published by scholars in Vaishnavism. I did not coerce my personal opinion on any article in the WP or on any person. You must learn to respect what people publish after conduction some amount of research like the case with Srinivasa Iyengar. Svr014 (talk) 14:43, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Please note that I took reference of this great work of Sri P.T. Srinivasa Iyengar which is named 'History of the Tamils from the Earliest Times to the Present Day'. He was a great historian and a scholar on various theories.Svr014 (talk) 14:47, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I have read through the reference given. Mr.P.T.Srinivasa Iyengar has not mentioned *Vadakalai Iyengar* , *Vadama Iyer* specifically. When quoting references one must not alter the content which it meant.Quoting his words on Brahmanas and saying that its about *Vadakalai Iyengar* is as very ambiguous to say the least. You must also read the words about Bhargavas on the same page. Coming to the other reference 8 of wheelar, I don't find anything related at all. Please provide proper references and qoute them in context properly.You haven't answered yet to the points i raised. I will definitely take out ambiguous statements referenced out of context.I am patient because you are new user. Please assume good faith. Srikanth (speak) 17:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Please note that the word Brahmanas includes Vadama Iyers and Vadakalai Iyengars. These two ethnic groups follow the same lineage of gothras and have a slight difference in sampradaya. Please read the article on deductive reasoning and then try to understand the point mentioned by Sri P.T. Srinivasa Iyengar. Iyers and Iyengars with specific reference to Vadamas and Vadakalais is strongly authentic. I have answered your concerns and they (my answers) are strong. The Kerala article talks about Brahmins and the word brahmin clearly includes Vadakalai Iyengars as they are the prototype brahmin community among Sri Vaishnavas. The Thenkalai evolved after sometime and they tried to create their own sampradaya. Hope this answers all doubts. Svr014 (talk) 18:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)