User talk:Jimbo Wales

Wikipedia:Arbitration Role of Jimmy Wales in the English Wikipedia

As far as I can tell, no one has drawn your attention to the above-mentioned proposal and related RFC on the talk page. –xeno^talk 19:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. It is much too premature for this proposal, and it seems to mix several different issues. I am very open, as always, to making changes, and support a general movement to refine processes over time, but I think a much more comprehensive discussion is needed before an actual proposal like this is put forward.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:38, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

For the record What do I want! modest incremental change. When do I want it! in the fullness of time after due consideration and reflection. So we're probably on the same page there. Will you give a view as to how you see your future role with respect to Arbcom and what contingencies are in place should you be unable to fulfil the role? Thanks. --Joopercoopers (talk) 01:53, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

That's a very good question. I think a very useful model of a modern constitutional government with checks and balances, and a healthy mix of respect for tradition, stability, and democracy is that of the UK government. We have today a very different sort of system, as suits our needs, but there are many ideas in that system which we do not have here - many of which do not need here. Admins are in some ways similar to the House of Lords, in the sense that they are in office essentially for life unless they do something pretty egregious. We do not have a House of Commons, though perhaps we should. The ArbCom is something like the Law Lords, although again, not in every particular. I would hope to see some useful ideas generated over time, in collaboration with the existing institutions, which are working pretty well but have flaws. Having a single institution - a fully elected ArbCom with absolute sovereignty for example - would be dangerous for the obvious reasons. Having me with completely unrestricted power in all things, which we do not have and I do not want... I want less power over time, not more - would be dangerous for the obvious reasons. Having everything decided by day to day popular votes also has clear problems.

One way in which our system does mirror the British system is that we have admins, elected directly by the community, being something like Parliament (though being more like the Lords in some ways, and the Commons in other ways). And ArbCom being something like the government. And me being something like the monarch, with a customary veto which is rarely used (actually, essentially never). And other odd bits and pieces.

Institutional design is a complex matter.

On a more personal level, and I believe that the ArbCom members past and present will back me up on this, I serve the ArbCom in terms of providing some institutional and "spiritual" memory and reminders. I try to make myself useful to them, and I generally have I think. I raise questions and try to pose challenges and help encourage a spirit of thoughtfulness. I don't have to do much of this, because the sorts of people who are elected to ArbCom in our current system are not the type of people generally inclined to partisanship and bickering, but to reflection and deliberation.

There are risks in change, but still, we should always look for change. Orderly, thoughtful, and productive change.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 02:20, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. And contingencies? --Joopercoopers (talk) 02:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure things would work out ok without me. Lots of good people here. How about this: in case of my untimely death or inability to perform my capacities, the ArbCom is hereby authorized to figure out what to do, subject to ratification with a 50%+1 vote of the community. In the interim between them coming up with a ratified proposal, the status quo is to be considered as much as possible. I will admend this succession plan from time to time upon the recommendation of the ArbCom and Community, until such time as we figure out a more longterm and binding way of dealing with it.

I promise to do my best to stay alive so that this is nothing more than a cute speculation, too. :)--Jimbo Wales (talk) 02:29, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your response, Mr Wales. You describe part of your power as "a customary veto which is rarely used (actually, essentially never)". Perhaps this is why the French and German WPs—actually, every other WP—seem to do fine without such a role? On your UK governance analogies, I find the House of Lords analogy for admins to be odd. Tony (talk) 03:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

"Leave ... Jimmy D. ... alone!" --- CHRIS CROCKER (link) ↜Just M E here , now 04:10, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

For what it's worth, and probably something that is relatively not very well known, Jimbo's actual involvement in ArbCom business is, essentially, inexistent. He occasionally sends something our way that was addressed originally to him but doesn't require his intervention, or asks for our input on the very occasional matter that is on his lap, and we occasionally poke him for "philosophical opinion" when we consider matters of a more "constitutional" feel.

To give a sense of perspective, out of the approximately 16000 emails that have been on arbcom-l in the past six months, Jimbo has around 70 to his name, nearly half of which are on topics more social than Wikipedian. Rumors of his still ruling Wikipedia with the iron fist of an eminence grise are, at best, misguided. — Coren ^(talk) 03:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

An opening! I'm sure I have a grey suit in my closet *somewhere*, so all I need to do is bribe the Lord High Assigner of Titles to make me a Wiki-Cardinal.... ;-) --Kim Bruning (talk) 16:25, 1 July 2009

Did someone call? Cardinal de Richelieu (talk) 21:14, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

(UTC) And the kicker is this: According to WP:CONEXCEPT, this would be entirely official. <innocent cat-got-cream look> 

Thanks Jimbo, I confess I'm rather confused by your analogy and think, as perhaps analogies like this are necessarily limited, that it is of little value. Furthermore, being from the UK and regularly seeing the lords temporal and spiritual drooling into their ermine, and given their resistance to the parliament acts, reform and generally conservative nature - I'm quite alarmed - I'm sure they're not exactly the best model for admins. The system is largely a finely balanced 1000 year fudge which has taken a millenia to evolve under competing and changing pressures. Ultimately it's flexibility is a strength, but the confusion of a lack of written constitution ensures only lawyers can understand it in totality - surely not a good thing. I'm also not sure we have the time and the key missing element is the commons. Perhaps better to visualise how our system might evolve.

Discussion of 'founder' contingencies or your gradual replacement leads to a question of what we might be replacing. Perhaps a good start would be to clarify your current role? The following are suggestions for a probably incomplete list - could you comment or add to them (or your TPWs)? Cheers. --Joopercoopers (talk) 22:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

1. Appointment of Arbcom members
2. Veto of Arbcom (ever used?)
3. Dissolution of Arbcom [1] "The arbitration committee, on the other hand, can impose a solution that I'll consider to be binding, with of course the exception that I reserve the right of executive clemency and indeed even to dissolve the whole thing if it turns out to be a disaster. But I regard that as unlikely, and I plan to do it about as often as the Queen of England dissolves Parliament against their wishes, i.e. basically never, but it is one last safety valve for our values."
4. Clemency [2] see above.
5. Removal of Arb members [3] (You talk of a 'constitutional right' here - is it written? where?)
6. Founder user rights:"The 'founder' group was created on the English Wikipedia by developer Tim Starling, as a unique group for Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. The group gives Wales full access to Special:UserRights and Special:Makesysop. As Wales is also a member of the global founder group since February 27, 2009 (Jimmy Wales was a steward before), he has the ability to change the user rights of any editor on any Wikimedia wiki from meta:Special:UserRights, making the local 'founder' group largely a status symbol. However, as "local founder actions" are usually of great interest to the local community, and are only relevant to the English Wikipedia, the local 'founder' right also has the benefit of allowing Wales' actions to be visible in the English Wikipedia rights log; actions performed with the global founder bit are not visible in that record, but only on the log at Metawiki."
7. Desysop - various. eg. the last one
8. Policy fiats per WP:CONEXCEPT

   Spokesman and PR WMF role per tango below.

9. WP:IAR? Anything you believe will make the place better or more efficient? I think so, but checked by this "In the event that the ArbCom makes a ruling against me, overturning any decision I have made in my traditional capacity within Wikipedia, the ArbCom's decision shall be final." In the same post you announce this is a change in our policies.

   Fundraising WMF role per tango below.

--Joopercoopers (talk) 22:20, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

(9) and (11) are more WMF things than English Wikipedia things. There is no proposal that I've seen to change Jimmy's position with relation to the WMF. --Tango (talk) 23:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Tango - I've struck them through. --Joopercoopers (talk) 23:21, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

The English system of government minus the House of Commons is feudalism. I'm not really sure if that's the sort of governance model we'd want for 2009. Baileyquarter (talk) 03:49, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the entirety of the English Wikipedia would be analogous to the House of Commons, then? ---- The thing is (note: this next thought has nothing to do with introductory sentence), we always have to kowtow to somebody. Conceptualizing/making Wikipedia happen was/is a wonderful thing, in exchange for which some of us are happy to grant Mr. Wales the benefit of doubt with regard to his ongoing decisions and methodologies as he continues to shepherd the project forward. A lot of the genius of what's been created is the LACK of unnecessary rules and bureaucracy except those deemed absolutely necessary towards achieving the encyclopedia's objectives and purposes. Whoever imposes discipline and is in authority is gonna catch flack, even rotating board-member folks subject to popular vote blah-blah, anyway; and Jimbo overall is soooo freakin benign, we shouldn't really complain; so let's just leave the Constitutional monarchy (private college or whatever kind of analogy we wanna use?) how it is. ↜Just M E here , now 06:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The community as a whole is too big to make decisions in the same way the House of Commons does. We either need to form some kind of representative body or accept that major policy changes are going to happen very rarely and slowly. There are certainly advantages to not having the rules changing on a whim every few days and there are certainly advantages to being able to adapt quickly to changing situations. We need to discuss what system will be the most advantageous, but Jimbo's talk page is not the place to do it. --Tango (talk) 23:19, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not. Feudalism is primarily an economic system rather than a governance system. It's all about land ownership and military funding. I don't think the concept is applicable to Wikipedia, so it makes no sense to ask whether or not it is what we want. --Tango (talk) 23:19, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Look up Feudalism on Wikipedia. It is defined as a political system. You must have confused feudalism with manorialism. Warmest regards, Baileyquarter (talk) 23:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

The overview in that article says: "The system, in its most basic essence, is the granting of land in return for military service." That sounds more economic than political to me. It doesn't talk about making or enforcing laws, it talks about an exchange one of valuable commodity for another. Manorialism is about what you do with the land once you have it. --Tango (talk) 03:55, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Blocks for admin abuse

I think two things are being conflated in current discussions around the wiki. Blocks are for editing abuse. Admin abuse should be met with loss of sysop access. It would be very straightfoward for you to state that admins may not swear at or otherwise abuse users. If such abuses happen, and there is no ambiguity, you may remove sysop access temporarily or permanently. I think this approach is better than using 3 hour blocks. Jehochman ^Talk 18:41, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I am generally sympathetic to this view, except that - traditionally, and correctly I think - being de-adminned is a much more serious thing than a mere 3 hour block. What I nearly did in this case was removed the sysop bit, with the notation "eligible to participate in a new RfA". Should I have done that instead? I would be interested to hear views.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:44, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I would strongly advise against summary desyoppings in non-emergencies. Leave desysoppings to ArbCom, that way the admin in question has an opportunity to make a proper defence. I don't see why a desysopping would be considered here, as Jehochman says desysoppings are for admin abuse. Last time I checked the civility policy applied equally to everyone, so incivility is editing abuse, not admin abuse. That you expect higher standards from admins doesn't make it admin abuse, IMO, although I think all experienced editors should be held to the same standards, admin bit or not. I do accept different standards for less experienced editors that may deserve a warning or two before being slapped with a block. IMO an experienced editor calling another user a "little shit" (I assume that is the comment we are talking about?) should be treated with a 3 hour block in the first instance (yes, it is a largely punitive block, I don't have a problem with that - punishment serves as a deterrent which is a good preventative measure, the distinction commonly made between preventative and punitive blocks is meaningless). --Tango (talk) 18:54, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) I think removal of the bit pending discussion with the admin, and an undertaking not to repeat the abuse, might have worked better. Sending them back to RFA would probably have been too harsh. I think it would also be a good idea to publish a code of conduct for admins that lists bright lines that when crossed may result in an immediate loss of sysop access. There are also less obvious types of abuse and misuse that are best addressed by ArbCom. Setting expectations before acting is very important. (Cursing at a user with lower access levels is a form of abuse, for sure.) Jehochman ^Talk 19:01, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

@Jimbo. If you are asking for views, might I ask how you would like to receive them? Would you prefer email, a posting to your talk page, an edit to an existing page, or is there a page that you'd prefer we centralize the discussion on? — Ched :  ?  22:12, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Email would be fine. I think that the civility poll that's been going on is a great place to discuss this as a part of the broader question. Posting here is problematic, in that people tend to want to debate very specific details here in a way that I think is not helpful.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 23:55, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

In case you weren't aware Jimbo, arbitrator Risker has unilateraly removed an entire section of that page, my Simulated Rfa Question, based on the fact that it in itself was incivil. Given that you, and many other experienced editors including former arbitrators, had already commented on it without issue, then I think that is a pretty clear sign that the community understanding of what 'civility' is more broken, and the fractures are eminating higher up, than many had perhaps first thought. MickMacNee (talk) 13:03, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

• I think anything that lessens drama and causes editors to hesitate before walking the plank can only be a good idea. Giano (talk) 13:22, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

• With all due respect to Arbitrator Risker, in the long run her deleting that entire item from the poll, after the item had drawn very extensive commentary about a subject that is of concern to the community—wiping out 20–30 editors' good faith comments on all sides of the issue, including Jimbo's—is causing more, rather than less drama about the matter. And that drama is further exacerbated by another admin closing the Talk page discussion of Risker's action: Wikipedia talk:Civility/Poll#Risker's removal of discussion. Silencing community members who express themselves on important policies and their application breeds resentment, not trust and collegiality.
  
  As other remaining sections of the discussion on the poll page shows, there is a widespread perception that admins and other, favored, "experienced" editors get away with incivility, while sanctions are more liberally imposed on "ordinary" Wikipedians. Personally, I believe this perception is exaggerated, but not entirely baseless. However, the whole Bishonen incident—her flagrant misconduct, the mild sanction of a 3-hour block, and the expressed outrage of Bishonen and several supporters over the 3-hour block—are Exhibit A in support of that perception. If an "ordinary" editor had called another editor a "little shit"—even without Bishonen's additional misconduct, subsequent unrepentant attitude, and 6 weeks of whining and campaigning against Jimbo—no one would be upset or surprised by a 3-day block or worse. No one would be questioning whether the block was preventative (OK), punitive (not OK), or exemplary (not OK). And if Jimbo himself blocked the plebeian-editor, without warning, no one would be clamoring to remove his "block button" or other nonsense.
  
  In my opinion, the entire Bishonen incident, which is widely known and widely discussed, is one of the main reasons behind this re-examination of the civility policy and its enforcement (as well as a few other policy proposals). That is why the topic is relevant to the discussion. It was not primarily an ad hominem attack on Bishonen, as those who want to sweep it all under the rug maintain. And it feeds the perception that there is a double standard, and that the admins watch each others' back. As I say, I believe the perception is overstated. But the way admins rallied to Bishonen's defense, and attacked Jimbo for a 3-hour block, is one instance where the facts matched the perception. Finell (Talk) 14:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

"Even without Bishonen's........6 weeks of whining and campaigning against Jimbo". Hmmm. Are you sure about that? Since her block Bishonen has hardly edited, save the discussion instigated by John Vandenberg on her talk subpage. It is undeniable that there is disquiet in the ranks, but I certainly wouldn't lay it at Bishonen's door. Clearly the civility issue needs an airing, if only to expose the widely differing views the community has about it. --Joopercoopers (talk) 17:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) Jimbo blocked Bishonen for 3 hours on May 22. Bishonen's last two salvos were on July 3, on this talk page.[4][5] That is 6 weeks. If Bishonen had simply endured her 3-hour block and then returned to business as usual, this issue would have ended on May 22. It is Bishonen who created this controversy and kept alive. Since her block expired, almost all of of Bishonen's "contributions" to Wikipedia have been her arguing, arguing, and arguing about Jimbo's 3-hour block. Throughout, Bishonen very skillfully shifted the issue from her personal attack of Daedalus969 (who deserved a reprimand, but not to be cursed at and then then repeatedly baited) to whether Jimbo's 3-hour block conformed to the letter of the blocking policy—she framed the issue as a misuse of the block to punish her—and rallied other admins and friends to join her campaign against Jimbo.

I don't know if Jimbo looked at Bishonen's prior edit history before he blocked her, but she also lost it a week earlier. Bishonen was supporting an RfA (the candidate was previously de-sysoped; the RfA failed) and got into an argument with someone who opposed it. Again, in addition to cursing at the other editor, she expressed anger that the other editor disregarded Bishonen's "advice" to stop arguing against the RfA. The discussion on Bishonen's talk page, which Bishonen later deleted, shows her uncivil conduct and contemptuous attitude toward another editor who crossed her[6] (indents omitted):

You mean supporters, no? And the talk page only shows the level of hate that Everyking will put forth, so I doubt it really supports your argument in any kind of regard. Thankfully, Crats don't do what Everyking would do (merely count votes) so your argument definitely wont hold up. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:46, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

It definitely won't, will it? That's interesting. Are you suffering from some kind of hysteria, to be addressing me like that after I advise you to not—not—keep blathering against the opposers [sic: should be "supporters"]? Or are you trying to avoid the childishness of immediately doing what I asked you not to do, by posting on my page instead of on the RFA? Or, Machiavellian thought, are you deliberately making yourself look absurd in order to make Everyking look the better? Are you secretly on his side? Whichever it is, and, believe me, I don't really want to know, piss off my page and stay off. Bishonen | talk 00:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC).

Hrmph. A crude edit summary ["Har har. Piss off."] is fine in small doses. Use one too much and you ruin its mystique. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:10, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

The mystique is perhaps not necessary, MZMcBride. Got any suggestions? What do you think of "Fuck off"? Bishonen | talk 20:18, 13 May 2009 (UTC).

Bishonen's abusive behaviour toward editors, her continuing argument that Jimbo's 3-hour block of her was unjustified, and, most distressing, other admins' supporting Bishonen throughout her campaign, are germane to the community poll on the adequacy of Wikipeida's civility policy, the adequacy of the policy's enforcement, and particularly whether selective enforcement unfairly favors admins. Suppressing discussion of these issues of legitimate community concern is damaging to the already frayed morale of many active editors, and also ineffective. If there is concern that the poll questions should have been phrased more neutrally, that can be fixed (provided the facts are stated accurately). But the questions and the discussion should be restored to the poll. In fact, the civility policy poll is probably the least confrontational forum for discussing the matter. But if community discussion continues to be suppressed there, it will arise elsewhere. That is what happens when debate is suppressed, and why suppression is counterproductive. Finell (Talk) 06:39, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Bishonen was encouraged back to wikipedia, albeit in a limited form, by the urging of John Vandenburg to attempt mediation with Jimbo. For you to characterise that mediation as 'campaigning' is absurd. She and Jimbo have opposing views - that's debate, the preferred method of conflict resolution around here the last time I checked. --Joopercoopers (talk) 11:33, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Six weeks of complaining over a 3-hour block, when her behavior was way out of line, then saying that she is ending the discussion while encouraging her supporters to continue the battle for her[7] is beyond a legitimate debate. Bishonen did not act as though she were in a mediation; she acted as a combatant, so the attempt at mediation failed.

I believe that discussion, even if it turns into debate, is the preferred method of conflict resolution on Wikipedia. That is why I am upset that a relevant debate was suppressed at the community discussion of WP:CIVIL.

Jimbo did the right thing. I would welcome Bishonen back to the project after a rest and an attitude adjustment. But she doesn't need anyone's welcome, does she? If she prefers to whine and pout, rather than continue to do productive work, that is her choice. Unfortunately, Wikdpedia loses a lot of good editiors because of dramas like these. Many of them are non-combatants who leave in disgust at what they see, often silently. We need to lower out toleration of this behavior to create an environment that is more conducive to productive collaboration, and less vulnerable to games. One of our pillars is crumbling and needs repair.

By the way, what is the Bishzilla alter ego all about? Does she have other alter egos? Finell (Talk) 20:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, this may seem a little stupid..... dave souza, talk 21:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Regarding blocks for admin abuse -- I agree, people definitely should be blocked for abusing admins. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:55, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I wholehartedly agree—and vice versa. Finell (Talk) 21:49, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

New policy proposal - Rehabilitation of offenders

Jimbo, you may be interested in a policy I have just proposed: Wikipedia:Rehabilitation of offenders. --Tango (talk) 01:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

You have my full, complete, unreserved support for this. I think it is a brilliant idea. It could and should very well be that checkusers (or similar) can still see the ancient history, i.e. it might not be "burned" forever, but there is no reason for it to remain in the logs.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 04:06, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that. It doesn't seem to be getting much support on the talk page. I've been trying to respond to people's concerns there, but it would help if you did the same. --Tango (talk) 15:40, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Did you read these objections, Jimbo? While this may seem like a wonderful idea on the surface, its flaws are fatal and numerous. —David Levy 15:51, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi, no, I haven't read the objections. I think I got to it pretty quickly after Tango posted it, and no one had commented. As Tango says (below), obviously it needs to be discussed and efforts made to fix the flaws. I think the basic concept is sound: we should have a statute of limitations on past bad behavior, particularly when the behavior was in some ways minor. I'm going to bed now, but I'll look at the objections tomorrow and see if I can think of anything useful.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 03:27, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Which is why we usually discuss proposals before voting on them. I expect the flaws can be overcome. --Tango (talk) 17:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Some of the flaws are potentially resolvable, but it's my position that others are inherent and insurmountable. Ignoring the emboldened votes and simply reading the underlying concerns doesn't change that. —David Levy 17:54, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Copyright & fair-use rationale of SVGified logo - new policy on SVGified images needed

You are invited to participate in an interesting discussion at Wikipedia talk:Image use policy#File:Man Utd FC .svg. We are having difficulties to find a concrete consensus regarding the above matter. As you can see it involves some hundred thousands over articles and possibly millions. Please, your comments & suggestion are very much appeciated. Thank you Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 18:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

It is certainly interesting, but it is an issue I've never given any thought, and so coming to a snap opinion is not a good idea. I think I'll just sit back and watch the discussion and reflect on it over some time before I come to any opinion.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow! Now we are supposed to be thoughtful before we jump in with our opinions??? Just before, you insisted on us not driving off others with rude insensitive language and now you want us to actually think before we give our golden opinions??? What is this place coming to? It is as if you wanted us to actually be a credible encyclopedia. That goes against everything I ever learned at Wikipedia Review. :) WAS 4.250 (talk) 20:48, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

The sarcasm really isn't helpful. Finell (Talk) 03:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Unless I've misread WAS 4.250's post, he/she praised Jimbo by playfully feigning outrage over positive goings-on. In other words, this appears to be friendly facetiousness, not sarcasm. —David Levy 08:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. Jimbo is doing a lot of things right. And Wikipedia Review is so often so completely wrong it is a scream. I especially laugh hard at their continued attempts to anticipate exactly which day Wikipedia will self-destruct, when by the original goals it has long since already achieved its goals and much more. Reminds me of the USSR's propaganda of the imminent demise of the West. WAS 4.250 (talk) 09:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Jimbo, you should've asked some experts for their opinion regarding to the above issue, the issue about images copyright is huge. 60.50.4.102 (talk) 08:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to disturb you Jimbo, at first I just thought that you would like to give some suggestions in regard to the above discussion Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 08:31, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Scientific articles in Wikipedia

Hello. Unfortunately some of the wikipedians who are not familiar with the scientific subjects try to delete the important articles of Wikipedia. As a researcher, I believe that the new articles published in the scientific journals are the best references in Wikipedia. The problem comes when the wikipedians who have never even seen a scientific article related to these subjects, judge that these articles in wikipedia are not important. Do you have an alternative to overcome this problem? Javanbakht (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Wales, it seems that you have no alternative for this problem. Anyway, your effort to promote Wikipedia is appreciable. Javanbakht (talk) 09:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

WP:Ageism

Hi Jimmy,

You've probably never seen me around before, but as you may already yourself now fully be aware, Juliancolton is up for bureaucratship right now, and one of the recurring themes among some of the opposers is that he's a minor. I'm curious to know a) what your personal views are towards WP:Ageism, and b) do you know of any legal issues with minors being bureaucrats (or do I need to go ask Mike on this)?

Thanks, Matt (talk) 06:40, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Best to ask Mike about any legal issues, but I wouldn't think that there are any. One of the reasons for the term "Bureaucrat" is that it's supposed to be a pretty dully technical position. :-) I don't think Bureaucrats have access to any private data, which might be the only issue, but again, best to ask Mike.

I strongly disagree with many points in WP:Ageism, and find it to be offensive in a great many ways and if I were to rewrite it, it would end up substantially different.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 19:31, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Gerald Walpin

Hi. Would you please add the following paragraph to the Gerald Walpin article? I cannot do so, because I have been topic banned from political articles for three months:

In June, 2009, President Barack Obama fired Walpin, after Walpin accused Sacramento mayor Kevin Johnson and St. HOPE Academy, a non-profit organization, of misuse of AmeriCorps funding to pay for school-board political activities. According to Associated Press, Johnson is a friend of Obama's. Johnson and St. HOPE agreed to repay half of the $847,000 in grant money they had received from AmeriCorps between 2004 and 2007. In a letter to Congress, the White House said that Walpin was fired because he was "confused, disoriented, unable to answer questions and exhibited other behavior that led the Board to question his capacity to serve." A bipartisan group of 145 current and former public officials, attorneys, and legal scholars signed a letter that was sent to the White House, which defended Walpin, said the criticisms of him were not true, and said that his firing was politically motivated. The letter can be read here.

Grundle2600 (talk) 10:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't get involved in this sort of content dispute except in very rare cases. I know nothing about this issue, and therefore I am going to have to respectfully decline to participate. --Jimbo Wales (talk) 19:34, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

OK. Thank you for responding. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Please note that editing would be a violation of Grundle's topic ban, as he's banned from editing articles related to U.S. politics for three months. Sceptre ^(talk) 20:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

He acknowledged that in the first line of his message. Finell (Talk) 20:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Then why is he even asking, then? Sceptre ^(talk) 21:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Because none of the people on the talk page have responded to my request to make the article balanced. The artcle says that Walpin "criticized" Johnson and St. HOPE. That is brushing aside what happened. He did not just "criticize" them - he accused them of corruption. The article is not balanced. My topic ban does not cover talk pages. Grundle2600 (talk) 00:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look at this when I can. Sorry, I'm getting behind on my wikipedia duties. Wikidemon (talk) 00:55, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Governance review

A review of English Wikipedia governance has been started here. Your input there would be greatly appreciated. --Tango (talk) 21:46, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Teenage Drug Lord from Malaysia

I recently saw an australlian programme from the BBC site and you were featured as a celebrity that had to answer "ten questions". One of them was "Are you a teenage drug lord from Malaysia?". My question is should there be a redirect (of Teenage drug lord from Malaysia) to your wikipedia page or your userpage? Of course this would be only in good humour. NarSakSasLee (talk) 10:35, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

The ongoing problem with editor FyzixFighter

Jimbo, once again the problem with editor FyzixFighter has arisen. He has removed a perfectly sourced edit which I made to improve the centrifugal force article. Any outsider should be able to see clearly that FyzixFighter only comes to physics articles to remove edits or to trample over edits that I make. This has been an ongoing problem and it has been to the detriment of a number of physics articles, namely Faraday's law, Kepler's laws, centrifugal force, and Coriolis force. FyzixFighter has been determined to keep the planetary orbital equation off the centrifugal force page. Something needs to be done to sort this problem out.

This is not a content dispute. This is about an editor who is determined to prevent me from editing on physics pages which I have done alot of research on. David Tombe (talk) 16:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)