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*****Fair enough. [[User:Nikkimaria|Nikkimaria]] ([[User talk:Nikkimaria|talk]]) 21:40, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
*****Fair enough. [[User:Nikkimaria|Nikkimaria]] ([[User talk:Nikkimaria|talk]]) 21:40, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
'''Support''' – With the caveat that you could hardly find a topic about which I know less than this, I add my support. The article is certainly of FA quality so far as the prose is concerned, and it seems to me to be comprehensive and balanced, and is clearly well sourced and referenced. A fine piece of work, it seems to me, and I'm glad to line up behind the earlier supporters. '''<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; font-size:1.05em;">[[User:Tim riley|<font color="#0A0A2A">Tim riley</font>]][[User talk:Tim riley|<font color="#848484"> talk</font>]]</span>''' 20:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
'''Support''' – With the caveat that you could hardly find a topic about which I know less than this, I add my support. The article is certainly of FA quality so far as the prose is concerned, and it seems to me to be comprehensive and balanced, and is clearly well sourced and referenced. A fine piece of work, it seems to me, and I'm glad to line up behind the earlier supporters. '''<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS; font-size:1.05em;">[[User:Tim riley|<font color="#0A0A2A">Tim riley</font>]][[User talk:Tim riley|<font color="#848484"> talk</font>]]</span>''' 20:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

{{FACClosed|promoted}} [[User:Ian Rose|Ian Rose]] ([[User talk:Ian Rose|talk]]) 13:42, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 13:42, 24 April 2015

Bazy Tankersley

Bazy Tankersley (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Toolbox
Nominator(s): Montanabw(talk) 08:00, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about one of the most significant Arabian horse breeders in modern times, and an individual who also had a fascinating early career as a newspaper publisher in the heart of the McCarthy era of the 1950s. The article is GA-class and since that time has had a peer review by User:Wehwalt, who made many good suggestions. I welcome further comment and assessment. Montanabw(talk) 08:00, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support based on the peer review I did; my suggestions seem to have been implemented. Well done.--Wehwalt (talk) 04:03, 8 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

    • You may need to flag where you see inconsistencies, they seemed all consistent to me, but I clearly must have missed something. I respectfully disagree on access date on GBooks, I've seen them go on and offline, but if it's a dealbreaker, I'll toss. Anything other than the Associated Press need the "agency" parameter -- ? I don't think there are uncited sources now, save for Bazy's book she had Parkinson ghostwrite, which I think we need to include in some fashion... Montanabw(talk) 07:26, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@NIkkimaria:: I think I got all the deadlinks and your other fixes, let me know what I've missed. I redirected the three deadlinks to Wayback, but the cite checker is still flagging them, don't know what's up with that. Montanabw(talk) 07:43, 12 April 2015 (UTC)\[reply]

It's flagging them because you've got the links backwards: where it says "archived from the original", "the original" should be the original link (ie the one that's dead), but you've got it set up to be the archived link. If you're using the archive-url parameter, that should be the live archive link, and correspondingly url should be the dead link. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:55, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ah! So that's how that works. I flipped them - does it work now? Everything good there? Montanabw(talk) 22:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Remaining issues:

  • Is the LaSalle paper NewsTribune or News Tribune?
    • FIXED
  • Some periodicals are still including publishers - FN4, 11, 30, 31, 33, 47
    • OK FIXED, but I really fail to see why this matters; more obscure periodicals benefit from its inclusion, better-known ones do not, but if you insist that everything has to be exactly the same, please defend that position when the next reviewer tells me to put them all back. Montanabw(talk) 05:56, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN37 is missing retrieval date
    • FIXED
  • FN23 and 27: publication date format doesn't match that used by other refs
    • FIXED
  • Suggest including {{subscription needed|via=HighBeam}} for HighBeam refs
  • FN19 is missing author
    • FIXED
  • Fn24: date doesn't match source
    • Fixed, that was a weird one
  • Ahneman-Rudsenske and Bavaria is also a periodical, so its listing in Sources should use the same formatting
    • Meaning...what? And someone else whined that it needs to be identical to all the other sources. But OK... and see above if someone else complains...
  • Guilford comment above still left over. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:00, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Got that one

@Nikkimaria:: OK, did I get them all? (Whining, but I did it...)

Yes, good to go now. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:36, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Driveby comments from Curly Turkey

I know absolutely nothing about the subject. Feel free to revert any of my copyedits or to disagree with any of my comments, many of which have no bearing on whether I'll support.

That's actually perfect; I need to be sure I am writing something comprehensive to the non-horse-aficionado! Montanabw(talk) 00:28, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  1. "inherited a love of politics and horses..." is the phrasing of the author of the work cited, I'd prefer to leave it as is.
  2. I think the two Person lawsuit quotes now clarify who said what. Better?
  3. "probably the world's most prolific Arabian horse breeder" : Redone, added source. Better? (I can toss that snippet if it's a problem)
  4. "...If she was in any position of leadership or power, she was dominant." This is the trickiest one: I really don't know what to do here, they are quoting a colleague of hers, but he's not particularly famous in his own right; at least not in this context - he was just someone who knew her. I don't want to provoke a [according to whom?] tag by being vague, but the full attribution in HCN is kind of clunky here.
      • You raise an interesting question and it's not being a hardass - FAC is for these tough questions! I read INTEXT to be a description of how and when one "should" do it, not a drop-dead "must do it" mandate (an inline footnote however, IS a drop-dead mandate)! ; but then, I haven't perused the talk or drama boards to see if there has been consensus debated on its meaning... Montanabw(talk) 04:25, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • But philosophical musing aside, I now have three of the four with an in-text attribution as well as a footnote: I did note Pearson for number two already, found two differenc tsources for #3 and reworded it, and as I looked over INTEXT and then WP:NPOV, I will acknowledge that the Bliebtreu quote (#4) is a strong statement that could be called "biased" and so it probably does fall under WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV. Are those three now copacetic? Montanabw(talk) 04:25, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • The only question left is the Smith quote, which I really don't think needs in-text attribution given that there is a footnote immediately following. (per INLINE, I think it falls under "It is best not to clutter articles with information best left to the references. Interested readers can click on the ref..." ) To say, "Tankersley was described by Richard Norton Smith, who was the biographer of Robert R. McCormick, as having "inherited a love of politics and horses, not necessarily in that order." blech, that's yucky writing. Horrible way to start the first paragraph of a section, I'd smack myself silly for writing that dull! LOL!!! Now, if this is a drop dead oppose if I don't fix it, I am open to suggested wording that won't put the reader to sleep. But if it isn't a drop-dead, I'd really prefer not to!  :-) Montanabw(talk) 04:25, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • (I had to look up "copacetic"). Well, I could argue that the way around yucky writing is to rewrite the yuck out of it, but whatever, I'll buy your argument (if it were me, I might make a blockquote or something out of it, which would handle the attribution neatly). Okay, I'm going throw my support behind this article now. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 05:26, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from SusunW

My comments are mostly minor edits to content:

  • This sequence is odd: Tankersley moved to Southwest with her mother and stepfather.[10] She spent part of her childhood on her mother's Rock River dairy farm in Byron, Illinois, then at a ranch owned by Simms in Albuquerque, New Mexico ... I wouldn't consider Illinois remotely to be a SW state. Possibly reverse the Illinois section and the moved to the Southwest?
  • 250,000 acres (100,000 ha) property ...acres is being used as an adjective not a noun. In the same sense that a 15-foot tree is a foot as opposed to the tree was 15 feet tall. It is either a property of 250,000 acres where the number is describing the noun acres, or a 250,000 acre property where both the number and acre are describing the property.
  • He was ten years older than was she ... I looked this up here [3] as it sounded awkward. I'm buying that it is a conjunction rather than a preposition but I think the verb and pronoun order should be reversed. He was ten years older than she was.
  • but her uncle considered Garvin Tankersley, who was from a poor Lynchburg, Virginia family, to be of unsuitable social status for Bazy,[11] and he also disapproved of her divorce. ... Sounds as if Tankersley disapproved of her divorce, as he is the last "he" mentioned. Flow would be better her uncle disapproved of her divorce and he considered ...
  • a 110 acres (45 ha) facility ... same issue as above 110-acre is an adjective for the noun facility.
  • This paragraph: Tankersley was not the only member of the McCormick family to raise Arabians in Arizona. ... while containing interesting information, does not lend to a greater knowledge of Tankersley or her horse blood lines. May want to delete it as a "side" discussion? SusunW (talk) 03:18, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good stuff to catch! I will fix, check diffs in a few hours and see if I got them. The "acres" problem is with the convert template, they actually have a parameter to fix that. (wow!) I don't know quite how to handle dear cousin Fifi; she was a very big deal in her time, but I can't connect the dots between her and Bazy, though they clearly associated. I was hoping to see if one influenced the other, but am having no luck. Moved Fifi to a sandbox. Montanabw(talk) 07:10, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by the Doctor

Lede
  • "she was raised amongst powerful Republican political figures. She was the daughter of Senator Joseph Medill McCormick. Her mother was progressive Republican Ruth Hanna McCormick, who served in the United States House of Representatives, making Tankersley a granddaughter of the late Senator Mark Hanna of Ohio. Although Tankersley was involved with conservative Republican causes as a young woman, including a friendship with Senator Joseph R. McCarthy, her progressive roots reemerged in later years; by the 21st century, she had become a strong supporter of environmental causes and backed Barack Obama for president in 2008. She became a patron of many charities. Her death in 2013 was attributed to Parkinson's disease." -seems very long for what you're trying to say here. Can you find a way to trim a bit? In the lead all I think you need to say is "Born to Republican parents, the daughter of a Senator" sort of thing or at least shorten it. Also I'd move mention of her death to the end of where you say "Upon her death" and add "from Parkinson's disease in 2013".
    • Hm. I tightened, see if you like it better now, I rearranged some things, you are right about the death bit; but her family tree is a big part of why she's notable beyond being a horse breeder - massive political and newspaper empire, ask @Wehwalt: about this, perhaps. Montanabw(talk) 08:06, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "As a young woman, she had a journalism career, beginning at age 18 as a reporter for a newspaper published by her mother. " -shorten to At the age of 18, she began working as a reporter for a newspaper published by her mother. I think that should tell the reader it was journalism and that she was a young woman!
  • " By 1957, Al-Marah was the largest Arabian farm in the United States. " -no article given its notability?
Personal
  • was described as having "...inherited a love of politics and horses, not necessarily in that order." -attribute.
  • "United States Senator" - pipe as just Senator.
  • "When Tankersley was four, her father died. His death was a suicide,[8] believed to be in part linked to his defeat for renomination in 1924" -shorten to "When Tankersley was four, her committed suicide, believed to be partly attributed to his defeat for renomination in 1924".
  • "Tankersley spent part of her childhood on her mother's Rock River dairy farm in Byron, Illinois,[7] but later moved to the Southwest with her mother and stepfather,[10] living at a ranch owned by Simms in Albuquerque, New Mexico and then on the Trinchera Ranch, a 250,000-acre (100,000 ha) property in Colorado that her mother purchased in 1937.[" -this is rather long. I'd put a new sentence in after stepfather then "They lived at a ranch.."
  • "Tankersley did not complete high school.[2] "I virtually had no education," she later stated." -would be better in one sentence like "Tankersley did not complete high school, and professed to have had "virtually had no education".
  • Link University of Arizona.
  • "Her first marriage ended in 1951, when Tankersley divorced Miller to marry Garvin E. "Tank" Tankersley, an editor at the Washington Times-Herald.[8] He was ten years older than she was". =Her first marriage ended in 1951, when Tankersley divorced Miller to marry Garvin E. "Tank" Tankersley, an editor at the Washington Times-Herald who was ten years her senior.
  • "Tankersley also dabbled in campaign politics, in 1948 organizing "Twenties for Taft" clubs to support the 1948 Presidential campaign of Robert A. Taft,[8] following in the footsteps of her mother Ruth, who was the first woman to manage a presidential campaign, the 1940 and 1944 efforts of Thomas E. Dewey.[" -long again. I'd put in a full stop after campaign politics. In 1948 she organized...

@Dr. Blofeld: the above changes all OK now? Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Newspapers
  • No links for the newspapers?
  • "The Times-Herald, described as "isolationist and archconservative,"[23] was known for sensationalism.[8] McCormick wanted Bazy to use the paper to create "an outpost of American principles."[24]" -seems sporadic on its own here. I'd squeeze it in after "Her uncle, "Colonel" Robert R. McCormick, then appointed her as the publisher of the family-owned Washington Times-Herald in 1949." and refactor. Something like In 1949, he uncle, "Colonel" Robert R. McCormick, appointed her as the publisher of the family-owned Washington Times-Herald, an "isolationist and archconservative" paper, known for sensationalism. McCormick wanted Bazy to use the paper to create "an outpost of American principles."
Yep.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Horsebreeding
  • "She founded the Al-Marah Arabian Horse Farm when she first lived in Tucson, in 1941.[28] Tankersley stated that Al-Marah was Arabic for "a verdant garden oasis";[11] Mark Miller said the name was selected by Carl Raswan.[30] The original Tucson property was 40 acres (16 ha). " -some short snappy bits here which jar and affect flow. Try "She founded the 40 acre (16 ha) Al-Marah Arabian Horse Farm when she first lived in Tucson, in 1941. Mark Miller stated that the name Al-Marah was selected by Carl Raswan, which is Arabic for "a verdant garden oasis".
        • I like most changes and did some rewording, but I have to be careful with acreage, as she bought and sold parcels, so it kept changing (this is common with US land, especially in the west where there are few historic properties, people start with a small parcel, then buy out neighbors as they move or age, etc... We also aren't certain Al-Marah really means a verdant oasis - only that Raswan claimed it did. (Raswan did speak Arabic, but still) Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "gives rise to the assertion that the Al-Marah herd is the "oldest continuously-bred, privately-owned band of Arabians in the world."" -who asserts it?
  • "She owned him outright by 1959.[37][39] She later added another Rissalix son from Hanstead, *Ranix.[37] In 1962, she imported another Crabbet-bred stallion, *Silver Vanity.[40] She used her knowledge of genetics to institute a program of selectively inbreeding horses of bloodlines she considered of excellent quality.[41] In her early years, she" -five sentences with "she".
  • "2006 National Champion " -no link to whatever related article?
  • "who moved the Al-Marah Arabian farm name" -I'm not sure you can move the name unless it was on wiki ;-) moved location and changed the name?
  • No link for the College of Agriculture?
  • Grand Canyon Trust is red linked and likely notable, but many of the other likely notable ones are not. Always good to stub them I think.
Yes, you can red link a few and I'll also try to help clear them if you like.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to link anything else you think needs linking. Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • this section done - back to Blofeld
Legacy
  • "She was also noted for a strong personality: "If she was in any position of leadership or power, she was dominant."[24]" -rep of "she". Also not clear who the second quote is from. I'd change the whole initial paragraph to Tankerley was noted for her strong personality, dominating in positions of leadership or power. She once stated, "You see, I come from that old-fashioned background of noblesse oblige: If you're born with money, you have an obligation to do good works for others."

Heh, I suspect everyone who knew her! The quote is attributed to an individual of no particular notability, in context, it says "To some, she came across as autocratic... Even in later years, "If she served on a board, you never got the feeling that democracy would enter the room," says Herman Bleibtreu, another friend and retired dean of the University of Arizona College of Liberal Arts. "If she was in any position of leadership or power, she was dominant." Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Tankersley's politics shifted dramatically during her career. Noting her earlier strong affiliation with the Republican party and conservative politics, The Washington Post reported that in 2008 she voted for Barack Obama.[8] She also supported Democratic Arizona Representative Gabrielle Giffords.[24]" -not sure why this belongs in legacy. Belongs in background, I'd name the first section of the article "Background and personal life or something.
    • Let me think on that one. The problem is that the article goes in a chronological format, mostly, so her later environmental stuff was more of her planning for the future, and the Obama vote an example. But let's discuss, I'm not wedded to the current placement... just don't want to make it more awkward. Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK, changed Background section name, in Legacy section I flipped the order in the paragraph, consolidated paragraphs and tightened. My thinking here is that I wanted to highlight stuff she did that has continued after her death (the schools, the land preservation, etc...) that's why it's a legacy. I did move the politics up to a spot in the background section. Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Most likely due to her love of Arizona, " -sounds like OR, did the author assume that? If so attribute who thought that.
I probably wouldn't state it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
OK. Tossed Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again I'm not sure why most of "Tankersley was a consistent advocate of the Arabian breed as a performance horse. In addition to the show ring and endurance riding, where she sometimes rode her own horses, she also tested her horses on the race track.[39] Her horses won the Tevis Cup once[31] and earned multiple national championships over the course of her career.[4] She was a major promoter of the Arabian Horse Association (AHA) Sport Horse Nationals, and her own horses also acquired many championships at that competition.[4] Further supporting Tankersley's interest in sport horse disciplines, two of her horses, Al Marah Xanthium, and Al-Marah Quebec, were the first Arabians accepted into the American Trakehner Registry.[3" belongs in legacy. If horses won cups they should be mentioned in horseracing career and documented there.
    • Not sure when they were accepted, might have been after Miller got them, he's pushing the Dressage stuff even more than his mom did. However, you raise an interesting question about article structure that I will think about; will be back once I've fixed the easy stuff and had time to digest the other things. Montanabw(talk) 07:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "During the 2010 World Equestrian Games, the foundation sponsored the exhibit "Gift of the Desert: The Art, History and Culture of the Arabian Horse."" -and how exactly was this related directly to Tankersley?
Mention it perhaps?
I think I figured out a rephrase to clarify all the connections... I had skipped connecting some dots. Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
References

Inconsistencies in date formatting. Ref 20 is January 1, 1945., most of the others digits. I prefer to write the dates as either 1 January 1945 or January 1, 1945, looks more professional IMO, but should be consistent either way.

    • Actually all the dates are written out, all the "accessdate" parameters digits. The inconsistent format of the ref, I think I fixed that. If you really want me to have date and accessdate identical (I think the deal was that I used reflinks a ton to fill in refs) I CAN change all of them, but do I really have to? (whining)
I'll do it for you if it's too much trouble!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:19, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
ARRGH! But they all got changed to UK format instead of US format....! So now I have fixed them all, I hope(?!?!) Montanabw(talk) 08:25, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hey even the wiki signature gives the date like that!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:35, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes "Arabian Visions" a reliable source?
    • It is a now-defunct magazine, but was run by R.J. Cadranell, who was a respected bloodstock researcher (examples:compiled indexes, back issues for sale, included in anthologies) A history bit is online here. On the contributors' list is Michael Bowling, a researcher and noted expert on the Crabbet lines in Arabians, (examples: [8], [9] and his late wife, Anne Bowling was a well-known equine geneticist at the vet school at UC Davis: [10], [11] . So a very reliable source, IMHO.
That's fine then!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:18, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Good article overall, but I think the prose needs to polished in a fair few places before this is ready to pass, some of those identified are some examples. Can you get some expert copyeditors like Eric and RHM22 perhaps to give it a read and copyedit? Will be glad to support once points are addressed and has been given another copyedit.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:35, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't need anything major, just a tightening up in places I think!♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:18, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I think it would still be good for some great copyeditors to give it a read but it seems to be near the line to me. There doesn't seem a tremendous amount of biographical material on her, she's notable largely because of the horses. Good job.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:34, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Source review by Jaguar

Been looking through some of the sources and have found some issues with these paraphrases - I hope with these being clarified it could help this article fully meet the FA criteria: ☠ Jaguar ☠ 16:30, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Article: "Robert McCormick had no children of his own, "doted" on Bazy,[8]"
  • Source: "Robert McCormick ... was childless and doted on his niece."
  • Article: "McCormick wanted Bazy to use the paper to create 'an outpost of American principles.'[24]"
  • Source: "McCormick said in 1949 that he wanted Bazy to create 'an outpost of American principles'"
  • Article: "she was involved in the creation of two private schools, the Primary Day School in Bethesda and the Barnesville School.[8]"
  • Source: "later helped start two private schools in the Washington area — the Primary Day School in Bethesda and the Barnesville School."
  • Article: "McCormick also told her to choose between Garvin Tankersley and the Tribune Company".
  • Source: "McCormick told her to choose between Tankersley and the Tribune Co."
  • Article: "Tankersley had started his career as a photographer and became managing editor, leaving the paper in 1952, later returning to the newspaper business as a director of the Tribune Company of Chicago from 1973 to 1981.[18]"
  • Source: "Tankersley ... started as a photographer ... He rose to become managing editor before leaving the paper in 1952 ... He was a director of the Tribune Co. of Chicago from 1973 to 1981".

Most of those I don't think are bad cases. The schools one especially is fine. The two McCormick ones are clear though and some of the words of the others might be tweaked slightly though.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:11, 14 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • I am open to suggestions for improvement, so thank both of you. Do note that I DID put direct source quotations inside quotation marks, so I don't think the first two need changes; there are only so many ways one can say some phrases, though if you can suggest improvements, that's good too. I am open to suggested ways to rephrase the others; sometimes it is useful for someone who has not seen the sources to propose wording. Blofeld does this, and even when I don't institute his suggestions verbatim, his ideas give me a kickstart to figure out a useful solution. Montanabw(talk) 07:24, 15 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for addressing most, I left down a few examples I could think of but overall I think the majority of the paraphrasing have been corrected. I'll support this nomination now as I can't find any more issues myself, and I'm confident that all of the above have been addressed. Good luck! ☠ Jaguar ☠ 13:20, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from GregJackP

  • Disclaimer - I did not read all of the above comments, so if I make a comment that has already been addressed above, please let me know.
  • The "Al-Marah" photograph in the "Death and Bequests" section does not have any alttext.
  • Citations in the "Reference" section - some end in a period, others do not. This should be consistent throughout the section.
    • Very hard for me to spot which do and which don't, can you flag the obvious ones? I think all the ones where I used the templates have them, the ones where Reflinks did the work may not... eek! Montanabw(talk) 23:06, 18 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Image review

  • File:Bazy_with_horses.jpg has two FURs, the first of which is far better and more complete - suggest removing the second. Also, this source attributes the image to Al-Marah, so would probably be worth mentioning that in the image description
  • File:Indraff_and_Bazy.jpg has two different fair-use tags: the generic tag and the historic image tag. Would suggest removing the historic tag as this will be difficult to justify - generic is fine, or you could try making a case for {{non-free biog-pic}}. However, given the dates involved, what steps have you taken to try to find PD images?
    • Fixed the tag (I think) If you mean seeing if it passes the published-pre-1964 copyright not renewed test, I have only seen images of either individual (Bazy or the horse) in horse magazines and maybe books (and then copied to the web in random places) In fact, that particular image may be one that the family only released recently. I looked for it in Hathi Trust books (searching for Indraff, as he's easier to make a narrow search on) and that particular image didn't pop out at me. I'm open to ideas, though. Montanabw(talk) 05:55, 21 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria (talk) 02:44, 19 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

      • If you wanted to pursue that, you could contact the family to confirm it was only recently released, and ask whether others were published earlier. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:51, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
        • I'm not real comfortable with that. For one thing, I prefer not to disclose my RL identity in connection with my wikipedia editing, but these folks would want to know who I am and that I'm not a troll. Also, given that I think the family has been "drinking from a firehose" ever since her death (Miller had to shut down his dinner show to take over the Al-Marah operation, just as an example), I'd hate to burden them. Montanabw(talk) 21:14, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support – With the caveat that you could hardly find a topic about which I know less than this, I add my support. The article is certainly of FA quality so far as the prose is concerned, and it seems to me to be comprehensive and balanced, and is clearly well sourced and referenced. A fine piece of work, it seems to me, and I'm glad to line up behind the earlier supporters. Tim riley talk 20:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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