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:: JVP is an organisation on (or beyond) the far-left edge of the American Jewish community,[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/the-jewish-voice-at-the-heart-of-the-boycott-israel-movement-1.5453944] or a "controversial pro-Palestinian advocacy group".[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/the-jewish-voice-at-the-heart-of-the-boycott-israel-movement-1.5453944] The widespread criticism of JVP is covered by mainstream media. Not every JVP stmt is DUE - those with RS coverage might be due - but they should be sourced to a RS with balance according to that present in the sources. I am not opposed to returning the content, sourced to Haaretz, and with the description, per the cited source, that JVP is a "controversial pro-Palestinian advocacy group". [[User:Icewhiz|Icewhiz]] ([[User talk:Icewhiz|talk]]) 12:28, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
:: JVP is an organisation on (or beyond) the far-left edge of the American Jewish community,[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/the-jewish-voice-at-the-heart-of-the-boycott-israel-movement-1.5453944] or a "controversial pro-Palestinian advocacy group".[https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/the-jewish-voice-at-the-heart-of-the-boycott-israel-movement-1.5453944] The widespread criticism of JVP is covered by mainstream media. Not every JVP stmt is DUE - those with RS coverage might be due - but they should be sourced to a RS with balance according to that present in the sources. I am not opposed to returning the content, sourced to Haaretz, and with the description, per the cited source, that JVP is a "controversial pro-Palestinian advocacy group". [[User:Icewhiz|Icewhiz]] ([[User talk:Icewhiz|talk]]) 12:28, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
:If the walkouts are reported by [[WP:RS]] that you don't need the JVP source. --[[user:Shrike|Shrike]] ([[User talk:Shrike|talk]]) 13:20, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
:If the walkouts are reported by [[WP:RS]] that you don't need the JVP source. --[[user:Shrike|Shrike]] ([[User talk:Shrike|talk]]) 13:20, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
Since the argued reason for removal was UNDUE and the need for a third party source, I will restore the material with those sources. As far as including "controversial pro-Palestinian group", unless you would like to include a disclaimer every time say the JCPA or hell Karsh is sourced that is a non-starter. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 16:08, 4 October 2018 (UTC)</small>

Revision as of 16:08, 4 October 2018

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Proposal for criticism section

Political

Trip organizers and tour guides engage and encourage participants to discuss political issues. Because the tour takes place in a controlled environment the result is often biased or skewed opinions. Access to information such as internet and other sources is limited such as arabs is limited. The result is often opinions and assumptions based on religious and cultural ideals which are driven by feelings, rumors, stories and myths spread by word of mouth which is far away from any form of objective discussion. An indirect effect is that something that was supposed to be fun and social becomes something political and depressing which is not what it is supposed to be. Most participants enjoy the travel experience, however.

False advertising

Advertising for the trip reads as "Absolutely Free". There are however, the following costs and requirements:

  • $250US, $300 Canadian deposit.
  • $60US Tip for the security guards.
  • Passport and military exemption costs for participants with Israeli citizenship.
  • Immunization
  • Travelers insurance
  • Currency conversion to Shekels is done at the beginning of the trip at a very unfavorable rate
  • Common 7 am wake up call
  • Mandatory attendance at presentations, lectures, videos, tours and discussion. This leaves about one or two hours of free time per day most of the days, if the person doesn't mind getting 4 hours of sleep per day and doesn't need time for showering, brushing teeth and packing. Many participants just sleep through the buss rides and videos and lectures because they are just too tired to do anything else.

In addition, trips often expose participants to political issues while sleep deprived which reduced the ability for objective discussion.

Living conditions

Up to thee participants are cramped into single room hotel suites. Some rooms have clogged sinks, out of service elevators, and no air conditioning. Some participants would prefer to stay in a hostel instead which is more accommodating for multiple roommates. Due to sleep deprivation many participants get sick and feel exhausted by the end of the trip. Some participants are afraid to express their true opinions because of the emotional nature of the issues.

Many participants wish for better living conditions, less strict environment, more free time, more time to sleep and less politics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sts3236 (talk • contribs) 10 August 2007.

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Funding Questions

"The program also receives funding from the German government, through the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany.[7]"

1) How much German money, expressed in Euros, is used to fund this organization? Not as a percentage of Birthright Israel's budget, but expressed as a figure of what the Germans are paying?

2) Due to the high incidence of abuse, financial malfeasance, etc... when looking at non-profit corporations, it is standard practice to express any non-profit's income in terms of "Administrative Costs" vs. money that is actually used to fulfill their mission, so that the interested reader can then assess the non-profit's "legitimacy". How much of Birthright Israel's income is spent on Administrative costs. Also questions like "Who is the Chief Administrator?" (or whatever the correct title is) and "How much money does this person get paid each year?", with other facts such as who their Board of Directors, and how much money do they all make, both individually, and collectively, and what percentage of the total budget does this compensation represent?

Other non-profits list this type of information, and I am surprised that none of it is listed here. Also, I assume "non-profits" are registered with one, or possibly more governments, as a requisite for not having the income taxed by those governments, and Birthright Israel has an international mission, so I'm curious about how the finances are handled from an "international" perspective. Are they registered in multiple countries? If so, which ones? How is this non-profit's income broken down on a country-by-country basis? Which country contributes the most? Does Birthright Israel have separate Boards of Directors for each individual country? Are they all paid to operate within their home country? Is the Administrative Cost of operating each country's non-profit similar to all the others, or are some Administrators making disproportionately more income, in comparison to the others. Given that it seems the organization's mission is "international", is there some connection to the UN? Have their been any financial scandals in this organization's history? Etc... Non-profits are notorious for financial mismanagement, and the fact that there is no mention of this kind of thing in the article makes me suspicious. 2605:6000:6947:AB00:D16B:F4F4:1B1C:309E (talk) 19:12, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is all off-topic. You seem to forget that this is Wikipedia, not the IRS. Debresser (talk) 20:18, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish Voice for Peace

Shrike, the ONUS rule does not say that you can delete anything you don't like from articles. Here, here and here are examples of mainstream media that consider it notable. Therefore, it is notable. Zerotalk 11:55, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The walkouts were also covered very widely by mainstream media and therefore satisfy WEIGHT easily. Zerotalk 12:20, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A comparison of the huge criticism section at Jewish Voice for Peace with the near non-existence of criticism here shows very clearly what counts as neutrality around here. Zerotalk 12:11, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
JVP is an organisation on (or beyond) the far-left edge of the American Jewish community,[1] or a "controversial pro-Palestinian advocacy group".[2] The widespread criticism of JVP is covered by mainstream media. Not every JVP stmt is DUE - those with RS coverage might be due - but they should be sourced to a RS with balance according to that present in the sources. I am not opposed to returning the content, sourced to Haaretz, and with the description, per the cited source, that JVP is a "controversial pro-Palestinian advocacy group". Icewhiz (talk) 12:28, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If the walkouts are reported by WP:RS that you don't need the JVP source. --Shrike (talk) 13:20, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Since the argued reason for removal was UNDUE and the need for a third party source, I will restore the material with those sources. As far as including "controversial pro-Palestinian group", unless you would like to include a disclaimer every time say the JCPA or hell Karsh is sourced that is a non-starter. nableezy - 16:08, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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