Talk:Andrei Chikatilo

Untitled

There is a contradiction in the chapter 'Chikatilo did not murder again until 1982 [...] He didn't kill again until June 1983.' I suggest that whichever is incorrect to be removed, or slightly re-write it in order to avoid confusion.

Also, in 'Chikatilo in film and books', the characters Viktor Burakov and Mikhail Fetisov are mentioned ― however, they have not been mentioned earlier on in the article, and thus the reader cannot know who these persons are. 85.94.246.241 (talk) 06:45, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

It seems some elements have been removed from previous versions of this article. I'm not all that familiar with the Wiki system, but I did notice these two things. 1st. This article is in the "Vampirism (Crime)" category, and 2nd. The archives have a section on Andrei Chikatilo's cannibalism (referencing http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3254074.stm). And yet no mention of Vampirism or cannibalism is mentioned on the part of Andrei Chikatilo in the current article. WulfgardMartel (talk) 15:25, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Link seven

Under childhood, the link for number 7 doesn't work. Here's another link to fix it: http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/spring03/rawlins/chikatilo.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sgjo23 (talk • contribs) 16:50, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

 Done. Thanks for spotting. I've replaced the link with two verifiable ones.--Kieronoldham (talk) 19:19, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the photos

Thank you to whoever added the photos. It makes the article ALOT better :)Lenachka25 (talk) 07:17, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Cultural impact and fame

This article is obviously lacking a section about the subject's importance for modern russsian-speaking culture. The name Chikatilo has became an appellative for any kind of serial killer, like Casanova as a lover-boy. The number of victims and the nature of his crimes are only a fraction of the whole picture. His name, by a strange coincidence, is a pun. The word "чик" (chik) is an onomatopoeia for the sound, that scissors or any other double-blade tool produces, and "чикать" (chickat) means "to cut with scissors"[1]. In sub-criminal slang this even means "to cut someone with a knife". And the ending is similar to the ending "-ила" (-ilah), that is used to exaggerate or overtone the process, that someone makes. For example, "Громила" (gromilah) states for a bulky, aggressive, fight-loving person, a crusher - a derivative from the verb "громить" (to crush, to commit pogrom). So, combined chikatilah literally could mean a ruthless slasher, if it were a real word.

The other reason is that this was the time, USSR was near its end and lost almost all control over the media. Chikatilo's was the first well covered mass-homicide case, so the public shock was immense. He has became the soviet Jack-the-Reaper, a target for number of anecdotes. Unlike other killers, who often have unremarkable appearance, he revealed a demonic looks on the trail (this and this pictures of his became semi-iconic).

I'm not a fan of Chikatilo neither I try to make an altar for him. Still, his "popularity" is undeniable. It's hard to provide relible sources for that kind of urban fame, but it's there. Everyone, who was born at least in eighties know his name. The new generation is loosing it, but it's still there.

The article is closed for editing, and even if it wasn't, I'm sure wikipedos would find some WP:RS or any other stupid WP:STFU&GTFO rule to justify the deletion. So, for anyone, who can edit this page and who knows, how to formalize such things so the bureaucratic dogs couldn't yelp: please do it.

Thx in advance --85.176.18.133 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:46, 19 July 2011 (UTC).

Thanks for your opening this discussion here on the talk page. I and others are of course open to discussion here as to what should or shouldn't be included in the article which you've written about and apreciate your feedback here. I do genuinely find the content of your contribution to this talk page interesting, and can well apreciate the legacy Chikatilo has left: not just in Russia, but also to a significant degree in the West, and in my opinion more than any other Soviet serial killer.

The coincidences regarding his name, which I genuinely find interesting (and was unaware of) are, however, just that. These coincidences have been noted with regards to other murderers and serial killers. For example, the first syllable of John Wayne Gacy's surname is not without irony considering he the fact he raped, tortured and killed 33 teenage boys, but to the best of my knowledge these coincidences are not included in Wikipeda articles about serial killers.

I agree that he as left a lasting notoriety, and perhaps a chapter with this title could be included directly below the victim table? Hopefully this chapter could be without trivia (which is sometimes included in Wiki. articles on infamous persons) such as the fact some bands have happened to write songs about him?

As for the second paragraph you wrote, I and other users have made edits which, I feel, already include the significance that the timing of Chikatilo's murders coincided with the final stages of the breakdown of the Soviet Union, and how the initial red tape hindered the investigation yet, after Glasnost in was declared in 1986, greater coverage of the murders was given. The article already specifies that his arrest occured just before the ultimate collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 and that his trial was the first major media event in post-Soviet Russia.

Chikatilo had the demonic look in the earlier stages of his trial as a prison precaution against lice meant he had his hair shaved off - hence the demonic look. I actually wrote the words 'which had the effect of making him look demonic' when I wrote about the this being the standard prison precaution against lice, but it was later removed by another user. If consensus is agreed to this being included once again, then perhaps an inclusion to the fact his that his head was shaven had the effect of making him look demonic and that the media picked up on this, giving him such titles as the 'Red Ripper' could be included once again? Incidentially, his inconspicuous appearance before his head was shaved and prior to his arrest helped him to blend into crowds during the years of the manhunt and, as he himself readily admitted, enabled him to convince many of his victims that he was a respectable, middle-aged man.

I own three books on this case and have used them in the edits/inclusions which I myself have made. If you feel a greater emphasis should be made in any particular aspect of the coverage (or lack of) in the manhunt for Chikatilo, then I can look through them again to find a rererence or two to accompany a further inclusion/greater emphasisyou feel should be made?

Kindest regards,--Kieronoldham (talk) 22:34, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

One single sentence

Quote: " Despite evidence linking Chikatilo to the girl's death (spots of the girl's blood were found in the snow near Chikatilo's house and a witness had given police a detailed description of a man closely resembling Chikatilo whom she had seen talking with Zakotnova at the bus stop where the girl had last been seen alive),[23] a 25-year-old named Alexsandr Kravchenko who, as a teenager, had served a jail sentence for the rape and murder of a teenage girl, was arrested for the crime[24] and subsequently confessed to the killing." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Srelu (talk • contribs) 19:10, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Book by Pristavkin

There is a book by Anatoly Pristavkin who headed the Pardon Commission of the Russian Federation and read all original documents of the case of Chikatilo, Kravchenko and a lot more. It describes a couple of details of the case that I now included. The book is "Valley of Deadly Shadow" (Russian, Dolina smertel'noi teni). In particular, there was incorrect information about Kravchenko. Any objections? My very best wishes (talk) 21:21, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

I think the conflict with the original reference deserves mention. Perhaps both should be included with a clear reference to a dispute over whether he committed a rape and murder or 'petty vandalism'? According to one reference to Kravchenko, his watertight alibi on 22/12 was unshakable and as you mentioned in your adjustments it wasn't just his wife who verified his account of his movements. This reference I have stated he was, however, detained in 1/79 for theft of clothing and police, still mindful of his record (whether this be 'petty vandalism' or 'rape and murder') decided to search his house and detain he and his wife. A search conducted on this occasion, according to the reference I have, revealed blood traces on his wife Galena's shirt: this matched Zakotnova's blood type. (The fact she and his wife were of the same blood type apparently didn't come into consideration).

The fact that the article mentions the posthumous pardon at the end vindicates Kravchenko's innocence regardless of which account is actually true. Regards--Kieronoldham (talk) 23:01, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

According to book by Pristavkin, Kravchenko dug out someone's grave when he was 14, and his father paid a fine of 30 rubles for that. Book does not tell anything about theft, but the book is obviously not a biography of Kravchenko. At least he was not a previously convicted rapist. He was at home at the time of murder according to initial testimony by his wife and another women named Gusakova. The investigators placed big criminal guy to the cell of Kravchenko, and he beat him every day until Kravchenko finally "confessed". Overall, I do not see any significant disagreements between the book by Pristavkin and current text of this page except Kravchenko. Perhaps some details about Chikatilo could be added. My very best wishes (talk) 02:17, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't deny the validity of Pristavkin's research; my problem is that the other references included in the article are hardly unreliable. I have several books on Chikatilo and some state he committed a rape and murder in his youth. These books are hardly unreliable sources. Nonetheless, I'm happy to see the edits you made remain on the article as regardless of what he did or didn't do in his youth it is blatantly obvious he was framed for this murder and forced to confess due to intimidation and violence. (These books also hark to the intimidation and pressure placed on Kravchenko to confess.) As for details on Chikatilo being added, which details would you like to see added? I'll be happy to look through the books I have again and see what I can do.--Kieronoldham (talk) 18:34, 17 March 2013 (UTC).

First arrest and conviction

Unless I'm completely missing something, there's a gap in the information on this page. We're told that he was tried and convicted for a 15 year sentence in 1979, yet he was free and killing again in 1981. How? Was he released early? Was he never actually jailed? Cardinal Wurzel (talk) 06:49, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

I think you're confusing Kravchenko with Chikatilo here. Chikatilo committed the murder and was questioned about it due to the circumstantial evidence, eyewitness testimony and a fellow teacher noting the composite sketch police made to being remarkably like Chikatilo. He too was questioned, but police took a greater interest in Kravchenko and released Chikatilo.

It was Kravchenko who was tried for Zakotnova's murder and sentenced to the maximum term, then retried and sentenced to death. The killing of Zakotnova was never linked to Chikatilo until his confession to her murder in 1990 and from 1981 he resumed killing.--Kieronoldham (talk) 21:57, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Convictions

Here is the full text of Chikatilo's sentence (wikisource:ru:Приговор по делу Андрея Чикатило). I'm not sure if it's available in English but it Russian it reads:

"Therefore the court classifies Chikatilo's actions as:

- according to art. 120 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - as committing sexual abuse against minors;

- according to art. 15 and 121 part 2 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - as an attempt to commit sodomy with the use of physical violence and threats against minors;

- according to art. 15 and 117 Part 3 of the Criminal Code - as an attempt to rape minors;

- according to art. 15 and 117 part 3 (in the Edition of the RSFSR Law of 25.07.1962) - as an attempt to rape a minor;

- according to art. 15 and 117 part 4 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - as an attempt to rape minors;

- according to art. 102 pp. "g, e, z, i" of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - as a premeditated murder of victims committed with special cruelty, linked to rape, of two or more persons committed by a person who previously committed a premeditated murder;

- according to art. 17 and 122 part 2 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine - as an attempt to commit sodomy committed with the use of violence against minors;

- according to art. 93 pp. "E, Z" of the Criminal Code of Ukraine - as a premeditated murder committed with special cruelty, by a person who previously committed a premeditated murder;

- according to art. 15 and 94 part 2 of the Criminal Code of Uzbekistan - as an attempt on rape committed by a person who had previously committed the same crime;

- according to art. 15 and 94 part 4 of the Criminal Code of Uzbekistan - as an attempt to rape a minor;

- according to art. 80 pp. 6, 8, 9 of the Criminal Code of Uzbekistan - as a premeditated murder with special cruelty, linked to rape by a person who had previously committed a premeditated murder."

According to the Russian law, rape ("изнасилование") can only be committed against a female victim, the similar crime against a male at that time was called "sodomy committed with the use of violence" ("мужеложство, совершённое с применением насилия"); now it is called sexual assault ("насильственные действия сексуального характера"; literally, "coercive sexual actions"). So as these crimes are different according to the law, I decided to write them separately.--IgorMagic (talk) 04:51, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

Never doubted your integrity, Igor. I don't doubt your integrity, and never have. The problem is, it isn't literally translated as such into the English language sources used here, though.--Kieronoldham (talk) 05:02, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

I tried adding a Russian-language external link many months ago to this article and it was removed by another user with a 'language barrier' being the justification for his/her removal.--Kieronoldham (talk) 05:09, 1 December 2017 (UTC)