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:You've already been answered multiple times several places (including my talk page). If you continue this disruptive pattern you will be reported (again). --[[User:HistoryofIran|HistoryofIran]] ([[User talk:HistoryofIran|talk]]) 15:44, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
:You've already been answered multiple times several places (including my talk page). If you continue this disruptive pattern you will be reported (again). --[[User:HistoryofIran|HistoryofIran]] ([[User talk:HistoryofIran|talk]]) 15:44, 25 February 2021 (UTC)


You guys telling use the Talkpage, now I am using it and now I should get reported? Safavids were Kurdish. Accept it Persian boy. And dont defeat my reply. I think you guys are anti-Kurdish. [[User:KurdîmHeval|KurdîmHeval]] ([[User talk:KurdîmHeval|talk]]) 21:16, 25 February 2021 (UTC)


== Zand dynasty. ==
== Zand dynasty. ==

Revision as of 21:16, 25 February 2021

Maps

Most of the material in here, and as well as all the maps posted here are lifted from the works of professor M. Izady without mentioning his name. The maps, for example, are re-colored and Izady's name and the copyright logo removed from all the maps before posting them here. This is illegal and considered palagerism.

Why do Kurds do this kind of thing to their own scholars? No wonder they are in a mess that they are, and no wonder no one bothers to study them...

OK, since I am author of some of the maps mentioned here, I feel obligated to answer to this. Firstly, I am not Kurd - I live in Serbia. Second, these maps are my own work and I did not simply "re-colored Izady's maps" and "removed Izady's name and the copyright logo". I draw these maps on completely empty layer in image editing software and I only used Izady's maps as a source for my work (but I did not changed his maps). Inclusion of Izady's maps into Wikipedia articles without his permission would be indeed copyright violation and therefore I did not included his maps but my own (and I do not claim any copyright for my work). Of course, I mentioned in "References" section of these maps that I used maps of M. Izady as a source. PANONIAN 10:49, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Systemic bias and/or ethnocentrism

this edit by User:Hvakshahtrah is problematic. I think that this edit was caused by his/her ethnocentric Systemic bias bias and/or ethnocentric approach.

Mr Takabeg, you cannot insult contributors , you have no permission to insult peoples here, keep your vocabulary better please , here is a non-profit ancyclopedia, so stop to prommoting here turkey's propagands! --Alsace38 (talk) 16:04, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Savavids

The Safavid dynasty was a mixture of of Azerbaijani, Kurdish, Turkmen, Georgian and Pontic Greek. As long as I know, no source calls this dynasty as "Kurdish dynasty". Richard Tapper doesn't call it a "Kurdish dynasty". I believe we have to remove this dynasty from list. We don't need ethnocentric pseudo history. Takabeg (talk) 14:57, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The Safavid dynasty is based upon the Safaviyya. Ismail I was 1/2 Kurdish on his father's side (that is, the side that was in charge of the Safaviyya), 1/4 Pontic Greek and 1/4 Turkmen/Turkish. The Wikipedia article on the Safavid dynasty states that the Safavid family originated from what it calls "Persian Kurdistan", and later moved to Azerbaijan. This ought to be enough to classify the Safavid dynasty as Kurdish (at least partially).
Regards, Hvakshahtrah (talk) 18:21, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, we need reliable sources saying this dynasty was Kurdish - please read WP:NOR - our own analysis isn't enough. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 15:13, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So we have to remove Safavid. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 22:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To consider Safavid dynasty was not Kurdish because it was a mixture -which is only your unsupported claim- first of all the ottoman empire should be removed from List of turkic dynasties and countries because none of Ottoman sultans was Turkish and their entire administrative units was Slavic.

Shah Ismail the founder of Safavid Dynasty was from Erdebil which is tousands of years old Kurdish city. He definetly described himself as Kurdish which been recorded in many different sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1HistoricalCorrecter1 (talk • contribs) 04:58, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Zand dynasty

The Zand dynasty was of Lek tribe or Lur tribe. Even the source that is added to this article doesn't call this dynasty as "Kurdish dynasty". I believe we have to remove this dynasty from list. We don't need ethnocentric pseudo history. Takabeg (talk) 15:04, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Saying Zand was Leki but not Kurdish is like, Denmark is Danish but not Scandinave. Lek is a sub branch of Kurdish languages. Perhaps we can ask Leks, do they consider themselves as Kurdish or not. Because as i know, a very big amount of them are identify themselves directly as Kurdish, not even as Lek.

Some ideological concerns against a nations histroy, doesnt enough of deny its comfirmed truths. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1HistoricalCorrecter1 (talk • contribs) 05:10, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The only source that says the Zands were Lurs is David Yerushalmi (according to the Zand dynasty article=. Judging by his article he doesn't seem to be a historian. As for Laks, they are Kurds (I know you can argue this and whatnot), but take a look at the article about them.
Regards, Hvakshahtrah (talk) 18:21, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The Cambridge History of Iran, Volume 7 By W. William Bayne Fisher, P. Avery, G. R. G. Hambly, C. Melville- "Another Zagros tribal group which returned from Khurasan to their home ranges at this time were the Zand. A minor pastoral people wintering on the Hamadan plains, centred on the villages of Pari and Kamazan in the vicinity of Malayir, they have been variously classified as Lurs and as Kurds: both Luri and Kurdish-speaking groups bearing the name of Zand have been noted in recent times, but the bulk of the evidence points to their being one of the northern Lur or Lak tribes, who may originally have been immigrants of Kurdish origin." p. 64. It just needs to be clear that we are unsure. Dougweller (talk) 15:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Are there any sources (except Kurdish authors e.g. Mehrdad R. Izady) which mentions to the Zand dynasty as a "Kurdish dynasty" ? Takabeg (talk) 15:18, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm under the impression you didn't look. A search on "Zand dynasty" with Kurdish turns up several on the first page, eg [2] p. 154 Historical Dictionary of the Kurds By Michael M. Gunter, [3] A Modern History of the Kurds: Third Edition By David McDowall, etc. Dougweller (talk) 16:02, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Michael M. Gunter doesn't use "Kurdish dynasty". As to David McDowall, I cannot read page on google books. Does McDowall use "Kurdish dynasty" ? Takabeg (talk) 22:46, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You are right about Gunter, he says "Kurdish Zand dynasty". However, it amounts to the same thing and it's odd that your objection is based upon minor wording differences. McDowall doesn't either, he just says Karim Khan was the Lur-Kurdish founder of the dynasty, which seems to suggest it is a Kurdish, or Lur-Kurdish dynasty, and certainly is a reason not to remove it from the list. Dougweller (talk) 10:25, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As to Lurs,

Takabeg (talk) 10:10, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Corduene and House of Kayus

@LouisAragon:sources state that these dynasties are kurdish. Frat070699 (talk) 17:52, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Vekoler: Frat070699 (talk) 17:57, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran: Frat070699 (talk) 15:08, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Like the Limbert citation which literally states that 'Kurd' was a designation for Iranian nomads and did not entail any ethnic connotation..? Yeah no, this is a mix of WP:OR and wrong use of sources. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:34, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Paradise Chronicle: Frat070699 (talk) 16:34, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran: sources state that these states are Kurds, some Arab sources of that period may have considered some non-Kurdish tribes in the Persian region to be Kurdish, but you are certain that the states in the region of Sehrizor are Kurdish. Frat070699 (talk) 16:35, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What is that supposed to mean? Also why do you keep pinging random users? --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm waiting for your opinions about the commune@Richard Keatinge: Frat070699 (talk) 16:42, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@HistoryofIran: You are manipulating the sources, although these dynasties are clearly Kurdish, you reveal your personal order. Frat070699 (talk) 16:43, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure why I've been pinged here. Would anyone care to summarize the dispute? Am I right in supposing that while pre-Islamic rulers were described as Kurdish, at the time that designation implied Iranian-speaking nomads, rather than whatever group we'd presently agree to designate as within the inexact boundaries of "being Kurd". Richard Keatinge (talk) 19:06, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Richard Keatinge: Used for tribes in the south of Iran It is certain that the people in this region are Kurdish, not for the Sehrizor region. Frat070699 (talk) 19:15, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'd recommend that Frat discusses the issue at the talk page with sources. Corduene is not listed as Kurdish in its Wikipedia article so...why add it against resistance? And I couldn't find a source stating it is Kurdish, either. I have the experience that Frat sometimes translate something a bit wrong, like Emir to order. But as I have usually found that what Frat wrote about really exists, and I understand that it is a bit difficult to find sources about Kurdish Emirates, I assumed good faith. But if a Louis Aragon or HistoryofIran remove content, I'd wait and check again until I find a really reliable source. These two editors are good article editors, and make a good job for Wikipedia.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 23:13, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just thinking that if sources really do describe the pre-Islamic dynasties as Kurdish, and if reliable sources also state that the definition of "Kurdish" at that point is an Iranian-speaking nomad, not someone who specifically fits the modern definition of the Kurds, then we have a solution. Maybe something like this:
With all due respect, Kurdish identity isn't unclear in the pre-Islamic era, it's pretty much a fact that they didn't exist as a ethnic group back then, heck even in the early Islamic era as well. As seen in the talk page, Frat clear lacks WP:COMPETENCE, and discussing with him isn't gonna get this anywhere. I mean, he couldn't answer me a single time, and instead wrote random comments, including accusing me of "manipulating the sources" (whatever that means). --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:49, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I added a lot of resources, where did you get it uncertain? @HistoryofIran: Frat070699 (talk) 17:12, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a sheer violation of WP:OR, WP:VER and WP:RS. Frat070699 was unable to reach a consensus, as he was seeking to insert original research into the article; I therefore restored the original long-standing revision. Further WP:TENDENTIOUS editing will result in being reported to ANI. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:18, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East, Volume 1, Infobase Publishing, 2009, ISBN 978-0-8160-7158-6, p. 382.</ref> Frat070699 (talk) 21:56, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

.https://www.britannica.com/topic/Kurd Frat070699 (talk) 21:58, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Karl Müller, Klaudiou Ptolemaiou Geographike hyphegesis, 1. cilt, 2. bölüm, Alfredo Firmin Didot, 2012, Frat070699 (talk) 22:00, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

modern sources state that it is kurdish Frat070699 (talk) 22:04, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All I see here is WP:OR, anachronism, and some kind of ethnocentric POV-pushing. Even if those entries are related to ethnic Kurds in some aspects, none of their main articles call them Kurdish. Could you show me some academic sources that label or call Corduene, House of Kayus, and Shabankara as Kurd/Kurdish? By academic sources I mean works of historians and experts in history not general Encyclopedias. --Wario-Man (talk) 01:46, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some good points here. @Frat070699:, can you produce quotations from respected academics that describe Corduene, House of Kayus, and Shabankara as unambiguously Kurd/Kurdish? If so, we can include them in the list without qualification. If you can't, we may have a beginning of a solution below. We do need to assume good faith and accept that Frat070699 has produced some sources, albeit of second rank, to substantiate his point.
I realize how ethnocentric claims and ethnic pride may relate to this issue. In that context, and given modern sources that do use the description "Kurd", I suggest that a good encyclopedia should include these dynasties, with suitable qualifications. Richard Keatinge (talk) 10:34, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The resources I added can already check academic resources. Frat070699 (talk) 13:19, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I could if I had a library to hand, and more time than I am presently willing to commit. Frat070699, I presume that you are familiar with these references. Can you tell us which are by respected academics? It would also be helpful if you could post some brief quotations from them here, or wikilinks to those that are available on line. Richard Keatinge (talk) 13:45, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just for the record:
Brittanica is non-WP:RS,[4] and makes no mention[5] of the House of Kayus, Shabankara or Corduene.
Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East -- makes no mention[6] of the House of Kayus, Shabankara or Corduene.
Klaudiou Ptolemaiou Geographike hyphegesis -- inaccessible, no page number.
- LouisAragon (talk) 18:47, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Geography (Ptolemy) is available on line. I can spell out Greek words only with difficulty and can speak about three words of the modern language, but I have looked through the relevant sections of [the Greek text] and I haven't located anything resembling Corduene or Kurd. Perhaps someone whose Greek is better than mine (a large proportion of the world's population including any Greek person over the age of one year) would be good enough to have a look through?
If Frat070699 cannot substantiate his claims we should probably omit the pre-Islamic dynasties. I would suggest however that we should put in a note, perhaps something like "While earlier rulers and realms have been claimed as Kurdish, the term Kurd in the pre-Islamic period indicates an Iranian-speaking nomad; connections with the modern Kurdish ethnicity are unclear". It might also be reasonable to list Frat070699's suggestions under See also. Richard Keatinge (talk) 19:55, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The British encyclopedia writes that they are Kurdish, but some scholars argue. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Tamil Frat070699 (talk) 23:34, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East She clearly states that she is of Kurdish origin. https://books.google.com.tr/books?id=stl97FdyRswC&pg=PA711&lpg=PA711&dq=Kurdish+beyliks&source=bl&ots=u-YjLufvz6&sig=ACfU3U37pkoSzWO2q8jeT2UnXSLqqLi11A&hl=tr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZrbmEtvjpAhUQyKYKHb0kDksQ6AEwBXoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=carduchi&f=false Frat070699 (talk) 23:44, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

David McDowall, A modern history of the Kurds, s.515 ., I.B.Tauris, 2004 https://books.google.com.tr/books/about/A_Modern_History_of_the_Kurds.html?id=dgDi9qFT41oC&redir_esc=y Frat070699 (talk) 00:14, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Karl Müller, Klaudiou Ptolemaiou Geographike hyphegesis, 1. cilt, 2. bölüm, Alfredo Firmin Didot, 2012, ISBN 124-999-259-1, s.947 Frat070699 (talk) 00:19, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kurds. The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001-07 https://web.archive.org/web/20061018061248/http://www.bartleby.com/65/ku/Kurds.html Frat070699 (talk) 00:37, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rivista degli studi armeni, vol. 21, 1988-1989, p. 281, della Société des études armeniennes, Fundação Calouste Gulbenkian, edito dall'Imprimerie nationale, P. Geuthner, 1989. Frat070699 (talk) 00:42, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Frat, read the Corduene page. Your sources don't match the sources in the article, and Xenophon just describes a tribe called Carduchi not a Kurdish entity. That they are Kurds or the Carduchoi ruled Corduene is an assumption. There is no mention of a "Kurdish" ruler in Corduene. But the Armenians/Urartu, Romans and the Seleucid Greek have well documented rulers in Corduene. With the available sources, (which are rather prominent), I'd advocate against including Corduene in this article as a "Kurdish" entity.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 09:09, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The sources I cite are considered as the first ancestor of the Kurds. Are you sure you have already read it? @Paradise Chronicle: Frat070699 (talk) 10:34, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rawlinson, George, The Seven Great Monarchies Of The Ancient Eastern World, Vol 7, 1871 http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/16167 Frat070699 (talk) 12:46, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I added university and encyclopedic resources to avoid biased resources or I would add more Resources here. Frat070699 (talk) 12:54, 14 June 2]]020 (UTC)

So far I can verify three of Frat070699's sources. Two are modern encyclopedias and all merely report a widespread supposition, rather than a solid academic consensus. George Rawlinson is a very long way out of date. "Commonly identified with the ancient Corduene, which was inhabited by the Carduchi (mentioned in Xenophon), the Kurds were conquered by the Arabs in the 7th cent. ""HISTORY Pre-Islamic Period Although subdued by the Persian ruler Cyrus the Great (d. 530 B.C.E.), the people then known as the Kurds or the Guti or the Carduchi frequently rebelled, and by the fifth century B.C.E. they had achieved independence from Persian rule. A Greek historian, Xenophon (d. ca. 355 B.C.E.), described them as a warlike people who had destroyed a Persian army of 120,000.

"If these two tracts are rightly placed, Cordyene must also be sought on the left bank of the Tigris. The word is no doubt the ancient representative of the modern Kurdistan, and means a country in which Kurds dwelt. Now Kurds seem to have been at one time the chief inhabitants of the Mons Masius, the modern Jebel Kara j ah Dagh and Jebel Tur, which was thence called Cordyene, Gordyene, or the Gordiaean mountain chain. But there was another and a more important Cordyene on the opposite side of the river. The tract to this day known as Kurdistan, the high mountain region south and south-east of Lake Van between Persia and Mesopotamia, was in the possession of Kurds from before the time of Xenophon, and was known as the country of the Carduchi, as Cardyene, and as Cordyene. This tract, which was contiguous to Arzanene and Zabdicene, if we have rightly placed those regions, must almost certainly have been the Cordyene of the treaty, which, if it corresponded at all nearly in extent with the modern Kurdistan, must have been by far the largest and most important of the five provinces"

"From about 300 B.C.E. Kurdistan began to experience population changes and resettlement, resulting in the establishment of many Kurdish polities, or self-governing groups. The Roman advance into the region that the Roman writer Strabo (d. 48 C.E.) described as being inhabited by the "Kurts" subdued all the western kingdoms by the first century B.C.E. In the East, however, the larger independent polities maintained their formal independence and survived as allies of the PARTHIANS until the advent of the Sassanian dynasty of the Iranian Empire in the third century C.E."

Frat070699, before I make a firm suggestion or even a bold edit, can you produce anything better? Richard Keatinge (talk) 13:22, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeterli kaynak ekledim, aksi takdirde 2 akademik olmayan kaynak var. Ne dediğimi kanıtladım. @Richard Keatinge: Frat070699 (talk) 18:49, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have added enough resources, otherwise there are 2 non-academic resources. I proved what I said. @Richard Keatinge: Frat070699 (talk) 18:50, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ottoman state and Kurdish nationalism p 36-37 https://books.google.com.tr/books?id=IA4z1ryrhNQC&pg=PA206&lpg=PA206&dq=cemisgezek+emirligi&source=bl&ots=spQWl4SooB&sig=ACfU3U2g0G1qrz8UFVbTPaBIedAhHiQhXg&hl=tr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwikwNrXp4LqAhWZ7aYKHZNCD4YQ6AEwEHoECAIQAQ Frat070699 (talk) 22:09, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I presented my wings. If there is no objection, let's add to the article. @Richard Keatinge: Frat070699 (talk) 23:34, 14 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

.I have seen the edit of Frat. I have also seen the Frat has included the same multiple rejected source again. From my part there is strong objection to such behavior. I've just waited for other editors to also double check.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 12:16, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I added 7 sources, proved the situation, there are only 2 sources claiming otherwise. @Paradise Chronicle: Frat070699 (talk) 12:46, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

At this edit I have moved the House of Kayus and Corduene to the See also list. I note that Frat070699 has not presented any references that establish the Kurdish nature of these entities. Frat070699, nobody is disagreeing with the suggestions that the ancestors of modern Kurds were living in the area long before the Muslim conquest, that there were rulers among them, and that they would have been speaking languages related to modern Kurdish. The names of Corduene and of Xenophon's Kardukhoi may be related to the word "Kurd". But none of these suppositions are adequate to list either the House of Kayus or Corduene as unambiguously, definitely, Kurdish, and no encyclopedia should list them as such. I hope this helps. Richard Keatinge (talk) 14:12, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

British Encyclopedia, Columbia University and African Encyclopaedia is not a modern and academic resource? @Richard Keatinge: Frat070699 (talk) 23:43, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't Grässe, J. G. Th, David McDowall and Ilya Gershevitch an academic resource? @Richard Keatinge: Frat070699 (talk) 23:48, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Encyclopedias, and passing mentions in academic sources, are not good enough for the assertions that you are trying to make. It's time to drop the stick. Richard Keatinge (talk) 06:36, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Former dynasties, at a time when Kurdish identity is not firmly attested, described as Kurdish by some modern sources

  1. ^ Karl Müller, Klaudiou Ptolemaiou Geographike hyphegesis, 1. cilt, 2. bölüm, Alfredo Firmin Didot, 2012, ISBN 124-999-259-1, s.947
  2. ^ Revue des études arméniennes, böl.21, 1988-1989, s.281, By Société des études armeniennes, Fundação Calouste Gulbenkian, Published by Imprimerie nationale, P. Geuthner, 1989.
  3. ^ N. Maxoudian, "Early Armenia as an Empire: The Career of Tigranes III, 95–55 BC", Journal of the Royal Central Asian Society, Vol. 39, Issue 2, Nisan 1952, s. 156–63.
  4. ^ Ilya Gershevitch, William Bayne Fisher, The Cambridge History of Iran: The Median and Achaemenian Periods, s.964., Cambridge University Press, 1985, ISBN 0-521-20091-1
  5. ^ Rawlinson, George, The Seven Great Monarchies of the Ancient Eastern World, Böl. 7, 1871.
  6. ^ Grässe, J. G. Th. (1909) [1861]. Orbis latinus; oder, Verzeichnis der wichtigsten lateinischen orts- und ländernamen (Almanca) (2nd bas.). Berlin: Schmidt. OCLC 1301238
  7. ^ David McDowall, A modern history of the Kurds, s.515 ., I.B.Tauris, 2004, ISBN 1-85043-416-6
  8. ^ Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East[1]
  9. ^ Izady, Mehrdad R. A Handbook of Kurds, pp. 94-9.
  10. ^ J. Limbert. (1968). The Origins and Appearance of the Kurds in Pre-Islamic Iran. Iranian Studies, 1.2: ss. 41-51.
  11. ^ G. Asatrian. (2009). Prolegemona to the Study of Kurds. Iran and the Caucasus, 13.1: ss. 1-58.
  12. ^ James, Boris. (2006). Uses and Values of the Term Kurd in Arabic Medieval Literary Sources. Seminar at the American University of Beirut, ss. 4, 8, 9.
  13. ^ James, Boris. (2006). Uses and Values of the Term Kurd in Arabic Medieval Literary Sources. Seminar at the American University of Beirut, ss. 6-7.

Former dynasties, accepted by authorities as Kurdish in approximately the modern sense

... etcetera

Doubtless the wording could be improved. But could something of this sort provide a better article, acceptable to everyone? Richard Keatinge (talk) 09:08, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Amir Hassanpour, Nationalism and Language in Kurdistan, 1918-1985, Mellen Research University Press, 1992, p. 50.
  2. ^ Peacock, Andrew (2017). "RAWWADIDS". Encyclopaedia Iranica. {{cite encyclopedia}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  3. ^ Jamie Stokes, Encyclopedia of the Peoples of Africa and the Middle East, Volume 1, Infobase Publishing, 2009, ISBN 978-0-8160-7158-6, p. 382.

Merge

This page and the content on Kurdish chiefdoms seem to overlap. Editors should consider a merge. --Semsûrî (talk) 19:28, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Quite possible. Alternatively, in view of the disagreements above, possibly it would be useful to have a List of pre-Islamic polities in the areas presently inhabited by Kurds?

Mehrdad Izady

From Richard Keatinge's talk:

Hi, Hope you are doing well in these uncertain times. I was wondering why you consider Mehrdad Izady a unreliable source on Kurdish history? I feel his credentials clearly make him very credible. Any clarification would be appreciated.

Thank you

Nawabmalhi (talk) 16:54, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good question, and thanks for your good wishes. Mehrdad Izady is indeed a credible individual. However, the book in question[1] is not an academic discussion of the origins of the Kurds. It is, as the title indicates, a popular and concise handbook. It's perfectly appropriate for such a book to present oversimplified interpretations, reasonable enough and widely supposed but not actually certain, as fact. And that's what it does. It's not appropriate for an encyclopedia to do so, I suggest. Richard Keatinge (talk) 20:31, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I for one don't consider him reliable at all. He says a lot of stuff that is nowhere acknowledged by other scholars, without any explanation or anything, but I guess that's the reason the work is called concise. Doesn't help the fact that he claim every living thing as Kurdish, such as the Kurds being big players in the Assyrian era and influencing the Medes, or the dynasty of Pontus being Kurdish etc. Pretty much rubbish stuff that looks like he just made up out of nothing. Out of the hundreds of sources I possess, none of them cites Izady's work, and with good reason I would assume. Also, I'm pretty sure I saw something a few years ago that criticized him for having nationalist tendencies in his work - can't find it anymore unfortunately. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:50, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Izady, Mehrdad R. The Kurds : a concise handbook. Washington, D.C. pp. 50–2. ISBN 978-1-135-84490-5. OCLC 910847841.

New additions

@Kurdishhistorian27: Please take your concerns here. Mind you, dynasty and origin doesn't mean the same. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:13, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Name change

Wouldn't it be more accurate to name the article List of Kurdish entities or something similar? We have dynasties, principalities, emirates, kingdoms, one soviet republic, two current autonomous regions, etc and the term 'country' does (for me) insinuate sovereignty. Thoughts? --Semsûrî (talk) 11:00, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Safavid dynasty.

The Safavids were of Kurdish Origin. https://iranicaonline.org/articles/iran-ix23-shiism-in-iran-since-the-safavids

Woudnt be it good to include them also? They were Pro Iranian, and we all know that Kurds are also Iranic people. KurdîmHeval (talk) 12:14, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I wait for an anwer KurdîmHeval (talk) 15:39, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You've already been answered multiple times several places (including my talk page). If you continue this disruptive pattern you will be reported (again). --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:44, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]


You guys telling use the Talkpage, now I am using it and now I should get reported? Safavids were Kurdish. Accept it Persian boy. And dont defeat my reply. I think you guys are anti-Kurdish. KurdîmHeval (talk) 21:16, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Zand dynasty.

Could the Zand dynasty also counter into it? Because they originated from the „Lek“ tribe, a Kurdish tribe which setteld in the majority Kurdish lived areas like Kermanshah, or Province of Kordestan KurdîmHeval (talk) 20:08, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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