User talk:Jeandré du Toit

Before leaving a message, please read Wikipedia's policies on verifiability/reliable sources and biographies of living persons (BLPs), because many of my edits are in response to messages sent to the volunteer response team because of unsourced or poorly sourced material in BLPs.

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AfD of Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!

Re [1]

Hey, I'm the one who started the Wait Wait episode pages, so I thought I would post my response to your Proposition of Deletion here to make sure you get them. I respect your point of view. I have posted some comments here for your digestion:

I disagree. I believe that this page should be kept because there are ones like it, but I do not think this falls under Wikipedia:OSE. First of all, the top of OSE says: This essay contains the advice or opinions of one or more Wikipedia contributors. Essays may represent widespread norms or minority viewpoints. Consider these views with discretion.

This is just a guideline to people, not an instruction. And it's a guideline to those making an argument, not those evaluating one. It says to people, you should avoid making this argument because it's usually not very meaningful. You should listen to the argument with an open mind and not only in terms of this "essay".

To argue that a piece of vandalism should stay is preposterous. If you try to delete vandalism, no one will argue with you. This is true for any piece of vandalism. In this case however, the other examples are high profile, like List of The Colbert Report episodes (2005). Go and try and delete that. It meets all the criteria you have laid out for deleting the Wait Wait article, but if you tried to delete it, you would be shut down immediately. This is because articles of this sort are accepted by the community even if they are not expressly endorsed by the rules.

The only difference between this page and others of its kind are that this is the first one for a radio show (that I know of). It is a very popular radio show, so it is notable. They have had guests on like Barack Obama, Lewis Black, this is not a tiny regional show. If you can get the The Daily Show and The Colbert Report ones deleted, then this one deserves it, but I don't think that's ever going to happen, so this one should stay..

I also left comments onthe AfD page, maybe read those too? They're different.

Cheers,

The Talking Sock talk contribs 02:33, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré, 2009-05-29t07:33z

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! guests (2005) (2nd nomination)

[Wait Wait Episode lists] I don't appreciate you not telling me that you placed the Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! episode lists up for deletion again. I wrote all of them and took part in the last discussion. You are giving me the impression that you want to do this behind my back so I can't oppose it. -The Talking Sock talk contribs 02:56, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-09-09t11:28z

Insufficient warnings catch-22.

Re [2]

User:StephenBuxton's reply on 2009-05-31t15:37:53z

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of MXC episodes.

Re [3]

Consensus was that the article is suitable for inclusion. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 14:07, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré, 2009-06-06t14:16z

No, as an admin I can't simply overrule consensus. And, chances are, consensus is correct. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 14:15, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré, 2009-06-06t14:26z

Well, feel free to file a request at WP:DRV then. Thanks, –Juliancolton | ^Talk 14:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2009 June 6. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-06-06t15:05z

List of books exempt from wp:v?

Re [4]

[Book lists] Items on such lists are not considered to be content to which WP:V is applicable in the first place, but rather as references, citations (see first paragraph of Wikipedia:Citing sources ) or further reading themselves. Wikipedia:Manual of Style (lists of works) has guidance on what information can be included. Inclusion on a third party list is not deemed necessary there or done in the examples given there. Additional reliable citations are necessary only if we are saying something like the list is complete, or if it includes works published under different pen names. Linked ISBNs for books which have them usually provide instant verification only a few clicks away, anyways. A book on such a list is its own reference, for the fact that the author wrote the book. Insisting on including this fact in the body of the article with an inline cite to the book list, or having an inline cite in the book list pointing to itself would be pointless - it's a case where an alternative convention is universally considered preferable. Regards, John Z (talk) 07:30, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-07-01t10:49z

Citations in lead of Firefly (TV series).

Yesterday you restored a {{source needed}} tag to the first paragraph in the lead of Firefly (TV series), commenting "Undid revision 299796658 by Rehevkor (talk) wp:bop)", and subsequently added the appropriate reference to the quote in the lead. The edit you undid was commented "is sourced in body so does not need to be sourced in lead". Rehevkor was referring to WP:LEADCITE, which states:

Because the lead will usually repeat information also in the body, editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material. Leads are usually written at a greater level of generality than the body, and information in the lead section of non-controversial subjects is less likely to be challenged and less likely to require a source; there is not, however, an exception to citation requirements specific to leads.

As you discovered, the complete "oddball genre mix" quote is sourced and is easily found in the body under Firefly (TV series)#Critical review, just where it would be exptexted. I reread wp:bop, and while I see how it informs WP:LEADCITE, I don't understand how it overrides it, and hoped you would explain your reasoning. Cheers. -- Thinking of England (talk) 02:31, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-07-05t10:56z

Pauley Perrette sourcing.

Why are you removing all these sourced statements as "unsourced" or "unrealiable". Some were posted by Perrette herself. We have to have a small bit of AGF that the statements were truly written by her and not someone else. But the removal of the sourced statements and posts has me puzzled. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 21:41, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I understand that the subject has had issues that oversight has had to deal with, but there are some points I would appreciate your clarifying. The things you removed here are career facts that can (and will) be sourced, or general personal history details Perrette revealed on a television talk appearance (which I personally saw and can cite to the episode). My concerns are with the material you removed here based on them being sourced to non WP:RS. These two items are sourced to Perrette's own pages, one archived and one still extant but no longer used. Regarding those, WP:RS#Statements of opinion says "Never use self-published books, zines, websites, webforums, blogs and tweets as a source for material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the biographical material." and WP:BLP#Using the subject as a self-published source says "Self-published material may be used in biographies of living persons only if written by the subjects themselves. Subjects may provide material about themselves through press releases, personal websites, or blogs." The alternate name "Pauley P." is actually a name she used that was screen credited on appearances on two television shows and a film in 1996-1997. Basically, I'm puzzled by how any of this would fall under the need for oversight or BLP concerns. I'd really appreciate your rationale for why this is being removed given those circumstances. Thank you. Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:40, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-07-06t09:35z

Articles for deletion nomination of Atheist (disambiguation).

I have nominated Atheist (disambiguation), an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Atheist (disambiguation). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. KMFDM FAN ^(talk!) 01:03, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Keep. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-07-07t10:51z

Neil Shapiro.

Hi Jeandre, I received your email and I deleted the text from the Neil Shapiro page I had set up and opened a Talk Page as you suggested in your email to me. I don't know mcuh about Wikipedia and again I apologize for errors. I am just glad I saw the autobiography information while the page had only been up for a day. I think the information I have now on my talk page should supply any editor(s) who might wish to do an article with enough material and online sources and links to make it pretty simple. I want to emphasize that this is not an ego trip for me. I just feel that the early days of telecommunications that I was privileged to be involved in are not being very well documented. For example the people I list who were associated with the MacBinary II standard -- they made a real contribution that should be documented. Anyway, if you do a page, great! If not, no problem-o. If you need to reach me my regular email is [...]. Thank you for your help. -- Thoth008 (talk) 17:37, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Today (Gary Allan song).

Re [5]

[Removal of PROD] Hello Jeandré du Toit, this is an automated message from SDPatrolBot to inform you the PROD template you added to Today (Gary Allan song) has been removed. It was removed by Ryanbstevens with the following edit summary '(Song is still climbing. Deletion not necessary.)'. Please consider discussing your concerns with Ryanbstevens before pursuing deletion further yourself. If you still think the article should be deleted after communicating with the 'dePRODer,' you may want to send the article to AfD for community discussion. Thank you, SDPatrolBot (talk) 19:52, 21 July 2009 (UTC) (Learn how to opt out of these messages)

• Just letting you know, charting singles on a major chart are usually notable enough for inclusion, and Hot Country Songs is a major chart. I have found other third-party reviews for this single, which should make for a reasonably detailed article. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Many otters • One bat • One hammer)} 15:21, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Other sources have been added; The 9513 and Roughstock, at least, are considered reliable sources. Also, it's a charting single, which is an assertation of notability. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Many otters • One bat • One hammer)} 16:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

wp:v -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-07-25t15:40z

Fight Club (film).

Re [6]

Hello, I replaced your IMDb citation with one from The Age. I hope you don't mind; I try to avoid citing IMDb because it's considered user-submitted and its information may not always be properly vetted. Happy editing! —Erik (talk • contrib) 13:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

[7]

Yours is much better Erik, thanks. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-08-08t09:13z

h2g2 a reliable source?

Hello, you had posted a comment about h2g2 on Talk: Invisible Pink Unicorn which doesnt quite jibe with comments made by another editor. Can you come help clarify this confusion? (Its in the RfC) Thank you.-- The Red Pen of Doom 00:04, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Not an RS. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-08-08t09:16z

Wikimedia foundation board of trustees elections.

Re: Voted for Steve only.

[Thanks] for your support. Cheers, Steve Smith (talk) (formerly Sarcasticidealist) 05:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

André Aciman referencing.

Re [8]

I don't understand what the fuss is about regarding this well-known author. Has someone complained? Could it be that the author himself does not want a Wikipedia article about him? A Google search brings up more than 50,000 hits. One can easily add dozens of links at the bottom of the page verifying every little statement in this (rather short) article. Is that what we need to do? Pasquale (talk) 22:34, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Answer, u_t notification. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-08-20t07:11z

Thank you for the clarifications. The article now contains a minimal amount of information, all of it absolutely unimpeachable and public. I believe whatever had occasioned the complaint has now been fully addressed. Pasquale (talk) 15:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

No inline citations. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-08-20t16:11z

Thank you for the clarification. I don't believe the article as it stands contains any material challenged or likely to be challenged, so I am not going to bother adding any inline citations right now (but maybe someone else will). If you have reason to believe otherwise, do what you have to do. If the author insists on being removed from the Wikipedia, I guess it's his privilege, even though the Wikipedia will be poorer for it. Pasquale (talk) 17:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

[9]: User:Nil_Einne + V + BLP = useful (reffed) wiki page. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-08-20t20:04z

Karaite conversion copyvio.

Re [10]

Thanks for removing that piece of contemporary religious propaganda from Karaite Judaism. It did not belong in a serious encyclopedia article about a historic religious movement to begin with. The copyright reason is a good one, IMO. Regards, --warshy^talk 15:58, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

10k emails source.

[11] -- 2009-09-06

[12]

AfD of Wait Wait 2.

See #AfD of Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-09-09t11:28z

List of QI episodes: morefootnotes.

Re [13]

I was wondering why you included that tag. What exaclty is the problem? ISD (talk) 12:49, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-09-09t13:04z

X2vnc prod.

Per User_talk:Pmc#Proposed_deletion_of_X2vnc, are you under the impression that acquiring additional material to satisfy WP's notability requirements for this article is an impossible task?  ◉ ghoti 15:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-09-10t16:06z

Moved discussion to Talk:X2vnc. Thanks for contributing!  ◉ ghoti 21:14, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Andre Aciman proposed deletion.

Re [14]

See my comments on the talk page. I strongly disagree with the proposed deletion. Take a look. Thanks.ShamWow (talk) 01:33, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-09-15t11:12z

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Radio Abbey.

Re [15]

Why has the discussion under Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Radio Abbey been hidden? I'm not seeing anything sensitive there.--RadioFan (talk) 21:38, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-09-19t12:11z

SVG NZ electorate map?

[16]

Sorry, the master is just a many-layered photoshop file. I did one start on an SVG map of New Zealand but never got very far (and the editor I had was lousy).dramatic (talk) 19:06, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

[17] -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-09-24t20:14z

Félix Rodríguez/Che photo.

I was concerned , as you seem to have been, that a fringe view on the fotos of Félix and Che were forged. I wondered if you would take a look at the article and tell me if you think it is undue weight to a fringe view to include this? Cordially,--Die4Dixie (talk) 23:55, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Die4Dixie's removal seems fine. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-09-30t22:18z

dePRODing of articles.

Hello Jeandré du Toit, this is an automated message from SDPatrolBot to inform you the PROD templates you added to a number of articles were removed:

• PROD removed from Maybe I'm Dreaming, by User:Michig, with summary '(deprod - album by notable artist that placed on a national chart)'
• PROD removed from Tot Ons Genoegen Rotterdam, by User:Phil Bridger, with summary '(contest prod - we automatically accept teams playing at the tenth level in England, so we shouldn't be deleting an article on a team playing at the third level in the Netherlands without discussion)'

Please consider discussing your concerns with the relevant users before pursuing deletion further. If you still think the articles should be deleted after communicating with the 'dePRODer,' you may send them to WP:AfD for community discussion. Thank you - SDPatrolBot (talk) (Learn how to opt out of these messages) 20:38, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Sources provided: [18] [19]. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-10-01t20:45z

Military ship article names.

Please be aware that your moves of the articles Italian battleship Leonardo da Vinci to Leonardo da Vinci (battleship) and Italian submarine Leonardo da Vinci to Leonardo da Vinci (submarine) are actually against the established naming conventions for ships put forth at WP:NC-SHIPS. As such I have reverted these moves. If you wish to further discuss these, please raise this matter at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships. -MBK₀₀₄ 03:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Journal of Neurogenetics.

Re [20]

Hi Jeandré du Toit

I noticed your edits to the above-captioned journal article. If you look at articles that link to Informa or Informa plc you will see dozens of similar articles. I spent some time today doing similar prunes to many (but not all) of them, but really don't know if that's the right approach. Would be interested in your views.

Regards, ^Bongo_matic 15:45, 16 October 2009 (UTC) Should you wish to reply, please do so here. I will watch this page for a few days, so no {{talkback}} or other comment on my talk page is required.

My edits weren't in response to yours, I found the article via the new unpatrolled articles list. I think your edit was fine. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-10-16t18:04z

Articles for deletion nomination of The Lurking

I have nominated The Lurking, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Lurking. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:40, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Delete. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-11-17t22:21z

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Paul Eggers

I do not understand why you would propose deletion of the Paul Eggers page simply because he did not win. Are you serious? Wiki has a great many bios of candidates that did not win elections. The Eggers paged is notable because he ran in two competitive gubernatorial elections in Texas and came closer to winning as a Republican than any one else since the 1870s - a stretch of almost 100 years. TexianPolitico (talk) 13:38, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Answer. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-11-17t22:21z

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Wikipedia:WikiCup/2010 Signups.

Re [21]

I suppose I'm curious more than anything, but could you explain this withdrawal? Or at least the diffs in question? J Milburn (talk) 22:05, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-11-17t22:21z

One Media Player per Teacher.

Just a friendly heads up on One Media Player per Teacher. The creator of the article has requested that the article be restored, and since prods may be restored on request, I've done so. However, I've advised him to fix the reference issues quickly and tagged the article as a COI. (See Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion/Current_requests#One_Media_Player_per_Teacher). Feel free to take this to AfD if you like.--Fabrictramp | talk to me 19:07, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

AfD edit. -- Jeandré (talk), 2009-11-21t22:00z

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Removal of PROD from Balsi

Hello Jeandré du Toit, this is an automated message from SDPatrolBot to inform you the PROD template you added to Balsi has been removed. It was removed by Phil Bridger with the following edit summary 'contest prod - verified villages are perfectly encyclopedic subjects'. Please consider discussing your concerns with Phil Bridger before pursuing deletion further yourself. If you still think the article should be deleted after communicating with the 'dePRODer,' you may want to send the article to AfD for community discussion. Thank you, SDPatrolBot (talk) 19:46, 27 November 2009 (UTC) (Learn how to opt out of these messages) 19:46, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

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Rangeblock of ref-falsification vandal.

Re [22]

Hey there, good eye. This is a tough one to deal with because of the wide range of IPs they have been editing from. I just rangeblocked 71.218.0.0/16 for 48 hours; I'm afraid that's about all that can be done for the moment until we have new evidence of a different, recent IP range. Keep me posted if you need any further action regarding this. Tan | 39 16:19, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

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Solar system

Regarding your edit to this article,do you mean that somebody e-mailed OTRS to demand that this trivial change was made? I have thought that OTRS is for more serious matters! Ruslik_Zero 09:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

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+44 (disambiguation) page

I'm not that concerned about its deletion, but puzzled as to why it was copyright infringement. Quiensabe (talk) 10:34, 7 February 2010 (UTC)