Talk:Guernsey

Etymology

"Guern" resembles the Spanish Cuerno and means horns. It's difficult to see the relevance of this information. If the name is of Norse origin as stated, it is definitely not a cognate of the spanish cuerno, which means that the two words just happen to be somewhat similar and have the same meaning. That's hardly relevant for the etymology so I propose to delete it. Does anyone know the actual (proposed) etymology of the name? --Thathánka Íyotake (talk) 01:23, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I had one suggestion but it was deleted after one minute by some overenthusiastic sheriff who was of the opinion that no etymologies should appear in the whole Wikipedia, because they are no facts, only possibilities.80.223.214.125 (talk) 19:14, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm happy to listen to your suggestion. Personally I think "Guern" is simply an abbreviation of 'Guernsey person'. It is how locals use it. The alternative Donkey is used, with a lot of pride, the name applied to "Guerns" by Crapauds (Jersey people). Crapaud meaning toad, which exist on that island, but not on Guernsey. Ânes-pur-sàng - À la perchoine 19:42, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Please see WP:V. Kendall-K1 (talk) 20:07, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

usage of work 'Guern' use of 'Crapaud' use of 'donkey' Ânes-pur-sàng - À la perchoine 08:16, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Guernsey. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130603001541/http://icc.cricket.org/icc-news/content/story/220287.html to http://icc.cricket.org/icc-news/content/story/220287.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 05:50, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Hotel list

I don't think we need a list of all the hotels in Guernsey. See WP:NOTGUIDE: "Wikipedia is not the place to recreate content more suited to entries in hotel or culinary guides, travelogues, and the like. Notable locations may meet the inclusion criteria, but the resulting articles need not include every tourist attraction, restaurant, hotel or venue, etc." Kendall-K1 (talk) 17:37, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Major misconceptions - "Guernsey" and "the Bailiwick of Guernsey" are not coterminous.

There are several major misconceptions in the article - these should probably be improved by the creation of separate pages for Guernsey, and the Bailiwick of Guernsey which need serious disambiguation.

It is Guernsey (which consists of the Island of Guernsey and several smaller islets) which is a Crown Dependency, and NOT the Bailiwick, which consists of three Crown Dependencies (Guernsey, Alderney and Sark) each of which are independent and have their own legislature, government and separate legal systems.

The Chief Minister is NOT part of the Government of the Bailiwick - just of Guernsey.

The States of Guernsey is NOT what is shown on the map. This is an outsider's mistranslation of the word "States". There are no 'states' in the Channel Islands -- the governmental (formerly religious) administrative sub-division is along parish lines. In fact Les Etats (as the original Norman French) refers to people not geography. Under no circumstances is Alderney a "State of the Bailiwick of Guernsey"!!!!

It refers to the people who make up the government in each Island - it formerly comprised elements from each of the judicial, executive and legislative branches, but successive reforms have taken it closer and closer to a Westminster model.

So the expression "States of Guernsey" or "States of Alderney" refers either to the legislature (which meets monthly) or to the administration. (The equivalent term in Sark is 'Chief Pleas').

How do we go about improving this current situation?

(PS: when referring to a Channel Island Bailiwick, convention is that is always capitalised to distinguish it from the figurative use of the term - as in "Sark is a member of the Bailiwick of Guernsey"

as opposed to:

"The health inspector declined to get involved, saying the establishment was not part of his bailiwick" (figurative) "Glue records are needed when the nameservers are in-bailiwick" (technical, IT)"

PPS: I live here!

Nigelroberts (talk) 08:44, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree with most of what you say, however you also have the position where the name Guernsey is used for the collective name of all Islands in the Bailiwick of Guernsey..... especially in the media, although there are other examples, for instance the Guernsey Financial Services Commission is responsible for regulating all bailiwick islands, not just the Island of Guernsey. You also have the Lieutenant Governor of Guernsey who is actually the governor of the whole Bailiwick, but is never referred to as such. Alderney became legally part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey in 1948.

Does the "States of Guernsey" legislate over the other bailiwick islands ?

The États de Guernesey can pass legislation that apply to Alderney e.g.

• The Alderney (Application of Legislation) (Food and Drugs) Ordinance, 1996
• The Alderney (Application of Legislation) (Health Service) (Benefit) (Amendment) Ordinance, 1997
• The Alderney (Application of Legislation) (Child Protection) Ordinance, 2000

as well as Alderney passing their own legislation.

Then there are bailiwick laws such as:

• European Communities (Implementation) (Bailiwick of Guernsey) Law 1994
• The Human Rights (Bailiwick of Guernsey) Law, 2000
• Data Protection (Bailiwick of Guernsey) Law, 2001

which could also be applicable to Sark

The info box map commentary is certainly wrong, it should be the bailiwick (I have changed it). Or one should change to a map of just Guernsey, which I think is better as there is a bailiwick map lower down.

I disagree that it is Guernsey that is the Crown Dependancy, I have always believed it to be the Bailiwick, as does the UK government. Fact sheet

The article does need a tidy up.

You can work out where I live from my user name!

User:Ânes-pur-sàng (talk) 10:10, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

I know very little about Guernsey. The confusion starts right in the first paragraph: "Guernsey embraces not only all ten parishes on the island of Guernsey..." OK, so Guernsey embraces Guernsey? Wait, the name refers to both some kind of a political division and to an island of the same name? Then we've got this: "Together, the Bailiwick of Guernsey and Bailiwick of Jersey form the geographical grouping known as the Channel Islands." So now I don't know whether Guernsey is a political division, an island, or a geographical grouping of islands. I think I got it mostly figured out now, but the first paragraph, or at least the lede, should explain this more clearly from the very start. Kendall-K1 (talk) 20:38, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

I think I see your problem. "Guernsey" (and I am only referring to the place between France and England).....is a place.... and a country.... and part of Europe.... and an independent state.... and a crown dependency.... and an island.... and part of an area (within the Bailiwick of Guernsey) .... and a collection of Parishes.... and is used as an abbreviation when one should really refer to the Bailiwick.... and sometimes said, wrongly, to be part of the United Kingdom.... and in the British Isles (sometimes)..... and a knitted sweater... and a breed of cow ..... and part of the Third Reich (for 5 years) .... and part of the lands of the Duke of Normandy (for 1,083 years) .... and a postal zone.... and according to some, a tax haven.... and a participant in the commonwealth games.... and a member of the British–Irish Council.... it can be spelt in several ways, english..... french..... old french......and in patois... and after a campaign, was recognised by facebook as a place..... and the old name for the place, which may be the Roman name, is "Sarnia".

Guernsey is not a sovereign state.... nor part of the United Kingdom.... nor part of Great Britain ..... nor part of the European Union .... nor part of the Commonwealth of Nations..... nor a member of the United Nations..... nor part of NATO..... and is most certainly not part of England, which we conquered in 1066 ! ha ha !

I will have a read of the article afresh and see whether I can make it clearer.

User:Ânes-pur-sàng (talk) 23:55, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Guernsey and the Bailiwick of Guernsey are NOT the same. The existing article is almost a pure Guernsey island page. There should be a Bailiwick of Guernsey page. I will write one for the Bailiwick, it will take a week.

User:Ânes-pur-sàng (talk) 12:00, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm not convinced we need two separate articles, but I'm not volunteering to do the work so anything you can accomplish would be good. Kendall-K1 (talk) 12:39, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I'll post the draft on this talk page, so we can have a chat about it.

User:Ânes-pur-sàng (talk) 13:10, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

The article here is written as though it is Guernsey the Island but framed in a cover that it is the Bailiwick of Guernsey.

Looking at the information box there are several items that are wrong :-

• The Bailiwick does not have a flag - the flag depicted is Guernsey Island, Alderney and Sark have their own flags
• The Coat of Arms is also not, to my knowledge, the coat of arms of the Bailiwick, as the Bailiwick does not have one, this is Guernsey Island, Alderney and Sark have their own.
• Sarnia Cherie is the anthem, but that is the anthem of Guernsey Island. See Alderney which does not list Sarnia Cherie.
• The map shows the Bailiwick of Guernsey
• Status, Crown dependency is correct for the Bailiwick, but not for Guernsey Island unless one says Part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey

(British crown dependency) as it says on Alderney and Sark pages.

• Languages correct for the Bailiwick, not for the Island as it lists Alderney and Sark languages.
• Government - the Bailiwick does not have a government, the three jurisdictions within it, each have their own governments.
• The Lieutenant Governor is LG of the Bailiwick, so is also the LG of each island.
• Saying the chief minister is the head of the government of the Bailiwick is incorrect, he is the CM of Guernsey island.
• The liberation day of 9 May is the date for Guernsey, not Sark (10th) or Alderney (16th).
• British Crown Dependency is correct for the Bailiwick, Guernsey is part of a British Crown Dependency, but not one in itself.

Now looking at the article:-

• Etymology - applicable to both
• History - almost entirely the history of the Island, no mention of Alderney or Sark
• Politics - as the Bailiwick has no government the politics are of Guernsey Island and no mention of Alderney or Sark politics
• Legal system - only covers Guernsey Island
• External relations - a mixture or applicable to both
• Geography - only covers Guernsey Island
• Parishes - only relates to Guernsey Island
• Economy - only relates to Guernsey Island
• Transport - 99% Guernsey Island
• Demographics - 95% Guernsey Island
• Emergency services - all Guernsey Island
• Education - Guernsey island
• Culture - Guernsey Island
• Sport - 98% Guernsey island
• People from or associated with Guernsey - list includes people from all Islands so is Bailiwick based

There are almost no links to Alderney or Sark pages.

Do I get the impression it was written for Guernsey Island and that someone has tried to change it into the Bailiwick ?

I would propose returning the page to being Guernsey, the island and creating a new page for the Bailiwick.

I have drafted a new proposed page:

Proposed new page

• Talk:Guernsey/draft

If anyone wants to compare to Jersey.... then because the Bailiwick of Jersey does not include any other jurisdictions - it is technically wrong, but could be included in the one article.

User:Ânes-pur-sàng (talk) 17:10, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for doing this. I have taken the extreme liberty of moving the content to a new subpage, as I find it very confusing to have the whole thing here. If you think I have overstepped the bounds of decency then by all means please revert me. Kendall-K1 (talk) 17:37, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

No thats fine, it is easier seeing it complete.User:Ânes-pur-sàng (talk) 10:50, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

I gave it a once-over, and it's much clearer than what we have now. Given that there are already articles for the islands of Alderney and Sark, I withdraw my concerns about making the island and the bailiwick into two articles; this appears to be the best way to do this. Kendall-K1 (talk) 13:29, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll leave it as a proposal till the end of the month in case anyone else wants to comment. User:Ânes-pur-sàng (talk) 13:30, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

So it's more complicated than I thought. For example, Herm is part of the bailiwick of Guernsey and the "jurisdiction" (is that the right word?) of Guernsey but obviously not part of the island of Guernsey. Sark is part of the bailiwick but not part of the jurisdiction. Kendall-K1 (talk) 17:13, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

I was thinking of Jurisdiction in the legal sense, where a court can try cases and rule on legal matters within a particular geographic area. There are three governments and three courts (GY-AY-SK) and therefore three legal jurisdictions. The geographic area over which authority extends. Yes, Herm falls under the legal jurisdiction of Guernsey (island). Sark is its own jurisdiction. Ref <E> uses the term. User:Ânes-pur-sàng (talk) 17:30, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Article now published Bailiwick of Guernsey Ânes-pur-sàng - À la perchoine 16:05, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Ânes-pur-sàng, this should have been the other way round. A new article split off for the island, covering it specifically. This article covers the whole Bailiwick throughout... You could crudely copy and paste everything and write a new article here for the island, but that would be very problematic. Instead, I advise you just revert the split, create a new article at Guernsey (island), then move this page to "Bailiwick of Guernsey" and then Guernsey (island) to "Guernsey". BTW I am not recommending. This needs to be done, the mess this has caused is going to take too much time to clean up. All the links that need to be corrected, the loss of history of the page, etc.. Sorry. Please sort this out. If not, I will... when I have time. Rob984 (talk) 00:52, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Since there have been so few edit, I have went ahead and just reverted back. Please create Guernsey (island) first. Sorry I didn't see the move earlier. Rob984 (talk) 00:57, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but I disagree, the Guernsey article had almost no content that related to Alderney or Sark. I agree that most of the history of Guernsey is also the history of the Bailiwick of Guernsey, but not all and those other items were missing from this article, as they are in the pages for Alderney and Sark. The information box does not apply to the Bailiwick as there is no chief minister of the Bailiwick for instance. The articles talk about the parishes of Guernsey, with no mention of Alderney or Sark parishes, The legal system only talks about Guernsey not Alderney or Sark, that is because the Bailiwick does not have any laws of its own, the economy and taxation only refer to Guernsey, the Bailiwick of Guernsey does not have any taxation as it has no parliament and no legislature etc etc. I have no idea who wrote the original article, but I presume it was meant for Guernsey the island, all I have done is created one for the Bailiwick as one did not exist. When it comes down to it, if this was supposed to be about the Bailiwick of Guernsey, rather than Guernsey, why was it not called Bailiwick of Guernsey ? Ânes-pur-sàng - À la perchoine 01:12, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter. The fact is the topical scope was the whole Bailiwick, and you are splitting out a sub-topic. Furthermore, links need to be dealt with, and Wikimedia projects are interconnected via Wikidata. Before you can move Guernsey (island) to "Guernsey", you would have to correct all links for Bailiwick of Guernsey which are currently going to "Guernsey". So this simply cannot be done in one step. If you are correct, then you will be able to copy all the relevant content to a new article and essentially rewrite this one—which is perfectly fine. I have no problem fundamentally with what you are trying to do.

If you create Guernsey (island), you will need to follow these steps:

• First create the article, possibly copy content with attribution, ie "Copied content from Guernsey" in the edit summary (it doesn't matter that the article will be later moved since it is dated)
• Move Guernsey to "Bailiwick of Guernsey", and leave the redirect from "Guernsey" to Bailiwick of Guernsey
• Begin rewriting Bailiwick of Guernsey
• Disambiguate all links to "Guernsey"—either to the Bailiwick of Guernsey or Guernsey (island)
• Once complete, move Guernsey (island) to Guernsey

I know it is a pain and I think a bot can help clean up the links but it has to be done this way.

Rob984 (talk) 01:46, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 7 February 2016

Guernsey → Bailiwick of Guernsey – Following creation of new article Guernsey (island), this article should be moved to Bailiwick of Guernsey; since the "Guernsey" refers predominately to the island, and "Bailiwick of Guernsey" is a more precise and less ambiguous title for this article. Then, after links are cleaned up, either Guernsey (island) or Guernsey (disambiguation) can be moved to "Guernsey". Rob984 (talk) 11:49, 7 February 2016 (UTC)